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    • MortgageMamma
    • By MortgageMamma 21st Apr 07, 11:07 PM
    • 6,495 Posts
    • 3,231 Thanks
    MortgageMamma
    The opposite for me - the pleasure of the job is all in the fact-finding, and I enjoy the mechanics of manipulating things to put a deal together. Actually researching rates and criteria bores the pants off me!
    Originally posted by toonfish
    I was a paraplanner for a firm of IFA's for 5 years always been fascinated with the mechanics of products. I do like noseying into peoples lives and I do get satisfaction (especially FTBS)

    I think I like the relationships with my clients the most, I just don;t like doing formal 20 page fact finds I'd rather scribble it all down on a4 lined paper!
    I am a Mortgage Adviser

    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • UK007BullDog
    • By UK007BullDog 21st Apr 07, 11:12 PM
    • 2,547 Posts
    • 1,394 Thanks
    UK007BullDog
    So you want to become an Independent Financial Adviser
    Originally posted by JoeK
    Maybe, I just want to make sure I am up to date right now as one never knows what the future could bring. Maybe I will go and specialise as well afterwards.

    What made you become a mortgage broker then?
    Originally posted by JoeK
    The flexibility of the working hours. But currently I am actually a tied adviser working for a major bank. That is very difficult coming from a broker background. We are actually tied down to just the banks products.

    What was the attraction?
    Originally posted by JoeK
    The money as It is more than what I earned before and i like helping and advising.


    It certainly adds transparency
    Originally posted by JoeK
    For whom? The only good thing was the CIDD and the KFI and yet still I see people who are not lead through it and I find that disgusting. Like the client who was told he is on a 2 yr fixed rate and thought they can remortgage now but are now actually having to buy themselves out as yes, they were on a 2 yr fixed but actually further tied in for another 5 yrs on a SVR. That is so disgusting. And the fixed rate was not even that good either.

    Another adviser that places admin last
    Originally posted by JoeK
    I am not too sure what you mean by that comment.


    Who's fees?
    Originally posted by JoeK
    The lenders fees of course. I have never seen so much compliance as when I joined the bank. Its a huge bad paper tiger.
    I think a lot of brokerages will go bust or will be shut down if they do not comply. The small brokerages will turn into big national ones where they will no longer be the local one stop shop. Plus they will start to charge fees including the proc fees they get. In New Zealand the lenders are cutting their proc fees by 50% or more currently. The brokers are up in arms. the same will happen here eventually. Just wait and see. the minute the lenders realise they can get away with it and can cut costs to increase their profits.......

    JoeK
    Originally posted by JoeK
    Last edited by UK007BullDog; 21-04-2007 at 11:15 PM.
  • JoeK
    I was a paraplanner for a firm of IFA's for 5 years always been fascinated with the mechanics of products. I do like noseying into peoples lives and I do get satisfaction (especially FTBS)
    Originally posted by MortgageMamma
    Wow MortgageMamma, it took you 5 years to find out that you hated admin.

    I think I like the relationships with my clients the most, I just don;t like doing formal 20 page fact finds I'd rather scribble it all down on a4 lined paper!
    Originally posted by MortgageMamma
    Formal 20 page factfinds are not necessary as it's a network thing. The FSA require us mortgage advisers to known our clients, only.

    I find it absolutely fascinating to find out the varying cross section of mortgage advisers like different parts of the advisers job.

    From a quick overview so far, all hate admin or put it at the back of the list

    JoeK
  • JoeK
    I think a lot of brokerages will go bust or will be shut down if they do not comply. The small brokerages will turn into big national ones where they will no longer be the local one stop shop. Plus they will start to charge fees including the proc fees they get. In New Zealand the lenders are cutting their proc fees by 50% or more currently. The brokers are up in arms. the same will happen here eventually. Just wait and see. the minute the lenders realise they can get away with it and can cut costs to increase their profits.......
    Originally posted by UK007BullDog
    Now that's an interesting view point!

    Will that mean that we will all have to learn to sell a broker fee?

    JoeK
    • UK007BullDog
    • By UK007BullDog 22nd Apr 07, 12:19 AM
    • 2,547 Posts
    • 1,394 Thanks
    UK007BullDog
    probably....lol
    • jamesd
    • By jamesd 22nd Apr 07, 3:43 AM
    • 23,514 Posts
    • 15,841 Thanks
    jamesd
    Brokers might just need to think of themselves as local consumer travel agents ten years ago... before the computerised web systems came in and ripped out much of the market and commission from under them. I don't see much long-term future for the lower end of the mortgage broker business.
    • Madjock
    • By Madjock 22nd Apr 07, 8:33 AM
    • 715 Posts
    • 732 Thanks
    Madjock
    Now that's in the eyes of the beholder.

    Seriously though. It's a known fact that a good sales person is usually cr*p at admin and a good administrator is cr*p at selling. The job of a mortgage broker is heavily biased toward admin, when in reality a good mortgage broker sales person is worth 300 per hour.

    Should we have three admin people supporting on mortgage broker?

    JoeK
    Originally posted by JoeK

    You are dead wrong about good administrators being cr*p at sales. Mortgage advisors are generally poor at admin, but the administrators who back them up (if they are lucky enough to have them!) sell the company and sell the advisor ALL THE TIME. When advisors don't call clients back, when advisors make mistakes with products/applications, when cases drag on and clients get fed up, who do you think sorts all this out?

    The administrator does.
    • MortgageMamma
    • By MortgageMamma 22nd Apr 07, 9:02 AM
    • 6,495 Posts
    • 3,231 Thanks
    MortgageMamma
    You are dead wrong about good administrators being cr*p at sales. Mortgage advisors are generally poor at admin, but the administrators who back them up (if they are lucky enough to have them!) sell the company and sell the advisor ALL THE TIME. When advisors don't call clients back, when advisors make mistakes with products/applications, when cases drag on and clients get fed up, who do you think sorts all this out?

    The administrator does.
    Originally posted by Madjock

    Very very good point madjock - I've never worked in a role where I have had admin support so I dont know what its like to have that back up but I'd love to find out. I have however worked as a senior technical support at a big life office for 4 years where I looked after their two top producing broker consultants and I can identify with clearing up their mess and lying for them all the time but I had a great relationship with them and it was a very very rewarding job, one of them actually asked me to move to bristol with him (from manchester) when he set up his own IFA practic - hubby at the time didt want to go or I would have. I miss working in a team enviroment sometimes - I probably wouldnt spend as much time on this site if there was someone else working with me
    I am a Mortgage Adviser

    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
  • JoeK
    You are dead wrong about good administrators being cr*p at sales. Mortgage advisors are generally poor at admin, but the administrators who back them up (if they are lucky enough to have them!) sell the company and sell the advisor ALL THE TIME. When advisors don't call clients back, when advisors make mistakes with products/applications, when cases drag on and clients get fed up, who do you think sorts all this out?

    The administrator does.
    Originally posted by Madjock
    An excellent point.

    My point was at the point of sale.
    Maybe I failed to explain what I meant.
    I mean salesmanship.

    Yes a good product will sell itself but who explains the benefits to the client and how it fits into their circumstances.

    As a mortgage broker trainer, I would like to share a few pointers with you all and welcome your comments and feedback.

    Preperation
    Have a weeks supply of 1st appointment literature always printed down and sperated in an individual client file.

    Example:
    * Initial Enquiry Sheet (for those that receive or generate telephone enquiries)

    * Appointment Sheet (for those that have an appointment made for them)

    * Combined Initial Disclosure Document (CIDD)

    * Factfind

    For those attending appointments in client’s houses, write to the client confirming the appointment and ask them to have the following documents at hand ready for your arrival.

    For those on telephone sales, the same situation can be used by booking a second, call back appointment.

    1) Mortgage Details
    2) Loan Details
    3) Credit Card Details
    4) Details of Insurances

    After successfully completing the documentation and on return to the office, you instruct your administrator what to research and what documents that you want prepared for the second appointment and pick up your first appointment file and attend your next first appointment.

    Does your preparation differ from this?

    JoeK
  • JoeK
    Brokers might just need to think of themselves as local consumer travel agents ten years ago... before the computerised web systems came in and ripped out much of the market and commission from under them. I don't see much long-term future for the lower end of the mortgage broker business.
    Originally posted by jamesd
    Now that's an interesting viewpoint.

    Does that mean that as procuration fees will be squeezed by lenders, we will see the death of the 'no fees' mortgage broker?

    JoeK
    • MortgageMamma
    • By MortgageMamma 22nd Apr 07, 9:38 AM
    • 6,495 Posts
    • 3,231 Thanks
    MortgageMamma
    Mine is totally different as I do everything over the phone and internet so I probably should stay out of this bit of the discussion. I do so few face to face appointments I dont really have a routine as such except to make sure I look good and have a briefcase full or stuff I need. For example I keep 4/5 factfinds IDD's/TOBS in there all the time
    I am a Mortgage Adviser

    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
  • JoeK
    Mine is totally different as I do everything over the phone and internet so I probably should stay out of this bit of the discussion. I do so few face to face appointments I dont really have a routine as such except to make sure I look good and have a briefcase full or stuff I need. For example I keep 4/5 factfinds IDD's/TOBS in there all the time
    Originally posted by MortgageMamma
    Why stay out of the discussion when you have already demonstrated in the reply that you have 4/5 factfinds IDD's/TOBS in your briefcase.

    I like the bit about you looking good though! lol

    JoeK
  • JoeK
    Well perhaps there is a place for me somewhere yet!

    But I may consider it when I'm old and tired, I enjoy advising so much I doubt I'll give it up for at least 20 years
    Originally posted by The Eternal Optimist
    It's unusual for old and tired people to earn 100,00 a year, but I know what you mean.

    From the feedback so far then, it would seem that the following are good starter reasons for 'Why become a mortgage broker'

    1) Enjoy helping people
    2) Making a lot of money
    3) Enjoy selling

    I will continue to add to this list as it develops.

    JoeK
  • AndyWallace
    Now that's in the eyes of the beholder.

    Seriously though. It's a known fact that a good sales person is usually cr*p at admin and a good administrator is cr*p at selling. The job of a mortgage broker is heavily biased toward admin, when in reality a good mortgage broker sales person is worth 300 per hour.

    Should we have three admin people supporting one mortgage broker?

    JoeK
    Originally posted by JoeK
    I generally agree with this statement but you should have 1 FT admin for upto 5 advisers.
  • AndyWallace
    that's Just Great!! Thanks. Trying to pick myself up right now.
  • kenshaz
    that's Just Great!! Thanks. Trying to pick myself up right now.
    Originally posted by AndyWallace
    I thought that you might see the connection.
    To be happy you need to make someone happy.

  • JoeK
    I generally agree with this statement but you should have 1 FT admin for upto 5 advisers.
    Originally posted by AndyWallace
    Nice one Andy.

    Would that not depend on the volumes of business that's generated by the mortgage adviser?

    One person dealing with let's say 5 x 2 = 10 mortgage sales and 20 associated insurance sales per week could be swamped with work if this includes looking after existing cases as well.

    JoeK
  • homer_j
    For me personally I wanted to specialise, I wanted to know everything that I could about mortgages and out of all the financial products that are out there, I find mortgages the most interesting. I am FPC qualified, I am CeMap qualified so could choose to do either and tried financial advising and it put me off to be fair as I felt like (and this is said with no disrespect to FA's or IFA's) a jack of all trades and master of none. That really didn't float my boat as such and I felt that my age worked against me too sometimes.

    They say that if you can find a job that you have a lot of interest in then you have a happier work life so that has been my aim.

    I would like to think that I do it because I want a job that I can be professional at and also the reward of knowing that you have helped so many people get into the house that they wanted.

    My approach to my job is very simplistic and sales is not the top of my list. I want to give good solid advice, ensure that my clients understand what they are doing and provide the benefit of my experience (both technical knowledge & personal experience with things like the house moving process). By doing this the sales side of it sort of takes care of itself and that earns me money which is clearly one of the reasons why I do it.

    You will know JoeK that the average wage in the NW where you, MM and I all operate from is borderline poverty stricken pay and I think its one of the few areas that you can earn a good honest days pay.

    I believe that someday when I feel the time is right I will come away from my comfort zone of working for an established company and set up on my own. My wife is a compliance analyst and she knows her stuff, infact she is doing advanced cemap at the moment and will be doing a diploma in compliance after that too. Her attention to detail and industry knowledge will hopefully mean that my ability to advise well we will make a good team. This is my aim so I can have financial stability in our future. Sorry if I have gone off track a little...
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
  • kenshaz
    For me personally I wanted to specialise, I wanted to know everything that I could about mortgages and out of all the financial products that are out there, I find mortgages the most interesting. I am FPC qualified, I am CeMap qualified so could choose to do either and tried financial advising and it put me off to be fair as I felt like (and this is said with no disrespect to FA's or IFA's) a jack of all trades and master of none. That really didn't float my boat as such and I felt that my age worked against me too sometimes.

    They say that if you can find a job that you have a lot of interest in then you have a happier work life so that has been my aim.

    I would like to think that I do it because I want a job that I can be professional at and also the reward of knowing that you have helped so many people get into the house that they wanted.

    My approach to my job is very simplistic and sales is not the top of my list. I want to give good solid advice, ensure that my clients understand what they are doing and provide the benefit of my experience (both technical knowledge & personal experience with things like the house moving process). By doing this the sales side of it sort of takes care of itself and that earns me money which is clearly one of the reasons why I do it.

    You will know JoeK that the average wage in the NW where you, MM and I all operate from is borderline poverty stricken pay and I think its one of the few areas that you can earn a good honest days pay.

    I believe that someday when I feel the time is right I will come away from my comfort zone of working for an established company and set up on my own. My wife is a compliance analyst and she knows her stuff, infact she is doing advanced cemap at the moment and will be doing a diploma in compliance after that too. Her attention to detail and industry knowledge will hopefully mean that my ability to advise well we will make a good team. This is my aim so I can have financial stability in our future. Sorry if I have gone off track a little...
    Originally posted by homer_j
    The secret of happiness is contentment and you appear to have both,I also have a wife who is both intelligent and special,perhaps we are not so different.

    Honesty and integrity are the most useful sales techniques,and you certainly sold yourself to me.
    Sales may not be at the top of your list ,but you have worked your magic.

    My only adverse comment is that you defend other brokers who do not have the same set of standards that you measure against.
    Last edited by kenshaz; 22-04-2007 at 11:03 AM.
    To be happy you need to make someone happy.

  • JoeK
    For me personally I wanted to specialise, I wanted to know everything that I could about mortgages and out of all the financial products that are out there, I find mortgages the most interesting. I am FPC qualified, I am CeMap qualified so could choose to do either and tried financial advising and it put me off to be fair as I felt like (and this is said with no disrespect to FA's or IFA's) a jack of all trades and master of none. That really didn't float my boat as such and I felt that my age worked against me too sometimes.

    They say that if you can find a job that you have a lot of interest in then you have a happier work life so that has been my aim.

    I would like to think that I do it because I want a job that I can be professional at and also the reward of knowing that you have helped so many people get into the house that they wanted.

    My approach to my job is very simplistic and sales is not the top of my list. I want to give good solid advice, ensure that my clients understand what they are doing and provide the benefit of my experience (both technical knowledge & personal experience with things like the house moving process). By doing this the sales side of it sort of takes care of itself and that earns me money which is clearly one of the reasons why I do it.

    You will know JoeK that the average wage in the NW where you, MM and I all operate from is borderline poverty stricken pay and I think its one of the few areas that you can earn a good honest days pay.

    I believe that someday when I feel the time is right I will come away from my comfort zone of working for an established company and set up on my own. My wife is a compliance analyst and she knows her stuff, infact she is doing advanced cemap at the moment and will be doing a diploma in compliance after that too. Her attention to detail and industry knowledge will hopefully mean that my ability to advise well we will make a good team. This is my aim so I can have financial stability in our future. Sorry if I have gone off track a little...
    Originally posted by homer_j
    Hi Homer!

    Many thanks for your valued input, I can tell that it comes straight from the heart.

    It's good to hear of your background and to find out that the Financial Adviser route was not your forte, as you felt a jack of all trades.

    Possibly that was the result of your previous employer not focusing you and as a result, you ended up focusing yourself into mortgages only.

    Good to see that you also fall into the category of advising and helping but note that selling just happens.

    Let's keep debating this, as I am sure that some good will come from all your heartfelt feedback and we will all learn something from each other.

    JoeK
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