Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Jenny
    • By MSE Jenny 11th May 09, 12:14 PM
    • 1,243Posts
    • 3,577Thanks
    MSE Jenny
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Would you give up a 50 train seat for a pregnant woman?
    • #1
    • 11th May 09, 12:14 PM
    MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Would you give up a 50 train seat for a pregnant woman? 11th May 09 at 12:14 PM
    Here's this week's hypothetical situation for you to cogitate on:

    Would you give up a 50 train seat for a pregnant woman?

    You book an advance seat on a five-hour train journey. It’s a Bank Holiday weekend, and there’s standing room only for non-reserved passengers, including a heavily pregnant woman. Normally you'd be up in a flash, but are loathe to give up your seat, as you paid 50 for it and booked early, knowing it would be crowded.

    Click reply to have your say

    Previous MMDs: View All

    This Forum Tip was included in MoneySavingExpert's weekly email

    Don't miss out on new deals, loopholes, and vouchers

    Last edited by Former MSE Rose; 12-05-2009 at 8:04 PM.
Page 4
  • romina
    I cant believe how selfish some people are.

    I also have an 'invisible' disability, which means that I am likely to fall if standing on a moving train, and if I fall, I'm likely to dislocate something (which would cause an awful lot more disruption to every passenger on that train, and many others, if the whole train needed to wait for an ambulance for me).

    I commute by train, with a reserved seat every day (which the train company arranges, following a letter from my consultant). I frequently find someone sitting in my seat, and they have always moved graciously when I tell them I have reserved the seat. If I need to, I will happily explain my condition - why shouldn't I be prepared to do that - it is invisible after all - I cant expect them to be clairvoyant - and I'm not ashamed of it?

    I have also been pregnant and yes it is not an illness, but it can be a very tough experience physically. Yes, pregnant women choose to be so, but why can't we all just show a little more compassion to each other - rather than always trying to outwit others, or 'win'.

    How about taking the time to try to, just for a moment, put yourself in the other person's position - the position that they ARE in now, rather than what you think (without knowing anything about them) they SHOULD have done.....

    I would not stand, but I would explain exactly why I was unable to do so (and the risks if I did stand) and would ask someone else to give up their seat, or even take turns in doing so.
  • Decado23
    This isn't even a dilemma - the pregnant lady gets the seat.

    Yes, she knows she's pregnant and should have booked in advance and yes, it's an expensive seat but her choices do not influence who I am. My choice not to be an arsehole is more important to me than fifty quid for a train ticket.

    I can fully understand and support disabled/ill/elderly people not giving up their seat, but refusing because 'I pay my tax and subsidise her pregnancy' as someone posted earlier is pretty pathetic. I have a 13mth old daughter, my wife doesn't currently work and hasn't since about 1mth before the baby was born. We are both approaching 33 and have paid considerably more tax over the years than we currently receive in child benefit. To be honest, my smoking habit probably pays enough tax to cover CB for a reasonable sized town
    Things that I felt absolutely sure of but a few years ago, I do not believe now. This thought makes me see more clearly how foolish it would be to expect all men to agree with me. - Jim Rohn
  • fionafh
    Absolutely not!

    First of all, there is always a carriage that has no reserved seating so someone there should give up their seat. Secondly, if you are pregnant and know you are going on a long train ride then you should take responsibility for your well being and book a seat!
  • romina
    And I also, paid over 50k in tax during the tax year that covered my maternity leave.... The reason I am on the train (and was whilst pregnant) is that I work and contribute to the economy.
  • FlakyDawn
    Decency costs nothing
    Not normally inclined to comment but I feel very cross at the people who would not give up their seat and rant about the poor woman not pre-booking, it's her fault she is pregnant, benefits, scroungers, over-population and having paid a whole 50 extra etc etc. Is this the Daily Mail forum? Perhaps she is an illegal immigrant benefit scrounging single mother too????

    Decency costs NOTHING. YES so I would give up my seat. And I am knocking on a bit.

    As for those "not visibly disabled", isn't a smile and perhaps an apology with a short explanation not make everyone feel much happier?

    I really despair. Dig deep for your human side and stay in touch
    • qetu1357
    • By qetu1357 13th May 09, 8:52 AM
    • 923 Posts
    • 916 Thanks
    qetu1357
    If EVERYONE behaved like a decent human being, then the lady wouldnt be standing.

    She would be sitting in the seat that SHE booked for herself.

    If you have reserved a seat and find someone sitting in it, then they SHOULD move when you produce your ticket, just like people SHOULD give up their seats to people more in need.

    This thread is about moral obligations, morals seem in short supply these days.

    I would stand. (and then maybe try and find a guard to explain the circumstances and try and get her a seat in 1st class, so I could have mine back. Although I doubt I would be successful.:rolleyes
    Originally posted by shandypants5
    Quite right.

    It's also about responsibility.

    Too often people aren't prepared to take responsibility for themselves and then expect people who have taken responsibility to look after them too/instead.

    An acquitance of mine was made redundant from his 39 hr a week job. He found due to tax credits etc. that he could take another job doing just 15 hours a week and be only 15 a week worse off.

    What's my point? Those who are responsible/take responsibility end up paying for those who don't.

    However I would give my seat up as she may have had to travel last minute and I wouldn't question her whether she had or not.
    • robpw2
    • By robpw2 13th May 09, 8:54 AM
    • 12,646 Posts
    • 26,389 Thanks
    robpw2
    Absolutely not!

    First of all, there is always a carriage that has no reserved seating so someone there should give up their seat. Secondly, if you are pregnant and know you are going on a long train ride then you should take responsibility for your well being and book a seat!
    Originally posted by fionafh
    if its a non reserved seat then i would expect someone to give it up for her as they have not booked a seat they just got on hopin to find one
    but if you reserve your seat then you should be entitled to it


    Slimming world start 28/01/2012 starting weight 21st 2.5lb current weight 17st 9-total loss 3st 7.5lb
    Slimmer of the month February , March ,April
    • robpw2
    • By robpw2 13th May 09, 8:57 AM
    • 12,646 Posts
    • 26,389 Thanks
    robpw2
    Not normally inclined to comment but I feel very cross at the people who would not give up their seat and rant about the poor woman not pre-booking, it's her fault she is pregnant, benefits, scroungers, over-population and having paid a whole 50 extra etc etc. Is this the Daily Mail forum? Perhaps she is an illegal immigrant benefit scrounging single mother too????

    Decency costs NOTHING. YES so I would give up my seat. And I am knocking on a bit.

    As for those "not visibly disabled", isn't a smile and perhaps an apology with a short explanation not make everyone feel much happier?

    I really despair. Dig deep for your human side and stay in touch
    Originally posted by FlakyDawn
    i cant believe im being referred to as a daily mail reader


    Slimming world start 28/01/2012 starting weight 21st 2.5lb current weight 17st 9-total loss 3st 7.5lb
    Slimmer of the month February , March ,April
    • geri1965
    • By geri1965 13th May 09, 8:59 AM
    • 8,366 Posts
    • 14,004 Thanks
    geri1965
    but if you reserve your seat then you should be entitled to it
    Originally posted by robpw2
    You are entitled to it - that doesn't mean you can't give it up by choice!
    • smk77
    • By smk77 13th May 09, 9:01 AM
    • 3,357 Posts
    • 2,641 Thanks
    smk77
    No Way!!
    If that woman did not have the forethought to buy an advanced ticket then I don't see why I should have to give my seat up.
    Originally posted by marmalade77
    perhaps there was a reason why she didn't buy an advanced ticket? Maybe she was in a rush to see a sick relative? I guess you could always ask a few questions and then see if she is worthy?

    If someone was obese, and carrying the same excess body weight then i would not give my seat up for them, so why should it be any different for a pregnant woman.
    Originally posted by marmalade77
    Someone who is clasified as obese (i.e. BMI of 30) is going to be carrying a lot more excess body weight than the average pregnant women! You clearly have no idea of the reasons why pregnant women may need to sit.
    • fixx
    • By fixx 13th May 09, 9:04 AM
    • 780 Posts
    • 6,319 Thanks
    fixx
    On the tube - yes
    On a bus - yes
    On a train where i have not reserved a seat, just managed to grab one - short journey yes, longer maybe.
    On an train where i did reserve a seat - no, unless she was clearly very ill and uncomfortable

    Now, i'm a woman, and i know a lot of my friends are shocked (and amused!) by my views on pregancy - it was her choice to become pregnant, and she has to take responsiblity for it. I think it is entirely fair that part of that responsiblity involves thinking about how she is going to travel, whether that is pre-booking a seat, or finding a guard or other to point out the carriages with unreserved seats etc.

    I presonally don't find it fair or reasonable to discomfort myself for a choice someone else has made, unless they are clearly in difficulty - in which case it is then my choice whether to help them out or not (and i usually would)
    Last edited by fixx; 13-05-2009 at 9:07 AM.
    • robpw2
    • By robpw2 13th May 09, 9:06 AM
    • 12,646 Posts
    • 26,389 Thanks
    robpw2
    On the tube - yes
    On a bus - yes
    On a train where i have not reserved a seat, just managed to grab one - yes
    On an train where i did reserve a seat - no, unless she was clearly very ill and uncomfortable

    Now, i'm a woman, and i know a lot of my friends are shocked (and amused!) by my views on pregancy - it was her choice to become pregnant, and she has to take responsiblity for it. I think it is entirely fair that part of that responsiblity involves thinking about how she is going to travel, whether that is pre-booking a seat, or finding a guard or other to point out the carriages with unreserved seats etc.

    I presonally don't find it fair or reasonable to discomfort myself for a choice someone else has made, unless they are clearly in difficulty.
    Originally posted by fixx
    i agree with wat your saying about all those scenarios ..

    i think your right


    Slimming world start 28/01/2012 starting weight 21st 2.5lb current weight 17st 9-total loss 3st 7.5lb
    Slimmer of the month February , March ,April
    • honeypop
    • By honeypop 13th May 09, 9:09 AM
    • 1,460 Posts
    • 2,240 Thanks
    honeypop
    At the end of the day we all have the chance to pre-book our seats.
    Originally posted by nickinoo

    Do we? I'm 36 weeks pregnant and last week I almost had to make an unavoidable 3 hour train trip, with extremely short notice. I enquired about booking a seat and there were only 'unreserved' seats left, and having done the journey before several times I know that means almost no chance of getting a seat (I've had to stand the whole way before). At the very last minute another family member made themselves available to make the trip instead of me, so I didn't have to go, but if I did have to go I would have not been able to book a seat and been in the situation in question (although for a 3hr trip not 5!).

    So it's not always possible to book a seat, and quite feasible that a pregnant lady would be in that situation.

    Anyway, if were not pregnant then yes I would give up my seat, knowing how uncomfortable it would be to stand for that length of time anyway, it wouldn't be as bad as what the pregnant lady would be going through. And I could quite easily plonk myself down on the floor somewhere (what I usually try to do space allowing) which she couldn't do.

    Shame on those who would rather see someone in distress than give up somewhere to rest their precious bottoms!
    • smk77
    • By smk77 13th May 09, 9:11 AM
    • 3,357 Posts
    • 2,641 Thanks
    smk77
    you have known for 9 months your pregnant
    Originally posted by robpw2
    Actually, that's not correct. Most women don't know that they are pregnant until their missed period. At that point they are considered to be 4 weeks so at full term they'll have known for 8 months.
    • robpw2
    • By robpw2 13th May 09, 9:13 AM
    • 12,646 Posts
    • 26,389 Thanks
    robpw2
    Actually, that's not correct. Most women don't know that they are pregnant until their missed period. At that point they are considered to be 4 weeks so at full term they'll have known for 8 months.
    Originally posted by smk77

    ok they have known for 8 months .. Still plenty of time to book a seat

    or maybe if you have to go at short notice book a coach you can reserve their seat up untill 5 mins before departure ..


    Slimming world start 28/01/2012 starting weight 21st 2.5lb current weight 17st 9-total loss 3st 7.5lb
    Slimmer of the month February , March ,April
    • smk77
    • By smk77 13th May 09, 9:15 AM
    • 3,357 Posts
    • 2,641 Thanks
    smk77
    Do we? I'm 36 weeks pregnant and last week I almost had to make an unavoidable 3 hour train trip, with extremely short notice.
    Originally posted by honeypop
    So far the arguements against giving up seats have been:

    1. They should have booked in advance
    2. The tax payer pays for their pregancy

    What weak arguements they are! Your comment sorts out no 1 and romina's comment sorts out no 2!
  • kiwijase
    Of course! It is the polite thing to do.

    "only if I got it back", "should have got pregnant in the first place", "i travel first class" ................... ALL symptomatic of what is wrong with this country.

    Everybody wants something for nothing? Well it costs nothing to be polite. I gave up my seat on a train in Holland on thier Queens day. Didnt need to. She wasnt pregnant but the whole train was packed. I stood with her boyfriend. No big deal. Whats the problem?

    And for those of you who replied "NO", well I would still hold a door open for you - be you man, woman, transgender, black, white, translucent, pregnant, fat or triangular. [But I reserve the right to trip you up as you went past and laugh while you skid on your chin and disfigure your twisted faces]
    • hislan
    • By hislan 13th May 09, 9:16 AM
    • 72 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    hislan
    I ABSOLUTELY WOULD give up my seat!

    I have two young children (3 and 5) and if they were with me I'd give it up also - and hopefully teach them a bit about human decency (something that many of the posters above obviously know nothing about!!!) If I did have my kids with me I'd probably make a big 'huff and puff' about it while loudly commenting to them "Yes, mummy does think it's very rude that someone doesn't offer this nice lady a seat....but don't worry, we're nice people and will give her our seat, even though that big strong man over there trying to ignore her while pretending to fiddle with his phone could stand SO much more easily than either of us!!!"
  • flippingheckerslike
    give up my 50 seat for a pregnant woman?
    Of course I would.

    Trying to create the kind of society I want to live in, through my own small actions, is worth way more than 50. And I want to care about other human beings, not just the notes in my purse.
    • smk77
    • By smk77 13th May 09, 9:21 AM
    • 3,357 Posts
    • 2,641 Thanks
    smk77
    ok they have known for 8 months .. Still plenty of time to book a seat
    Originally posted by robpw2
    Your are making the scenario fit around your arguement! Are you suggesting that a women decides the on day that she finds out that she is pregnant that she want to take a long train journey when she is full term? :confused:


    or maybe if you have to go at short notice book a coach you can reserve their seat up untill 5 mins before departure ..
    Originally posted by robpw2
    It's a long train journey so an even longer coach journey. Perhaps the coach doesn't cover the same route?
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

3,452Posts Today

7,116Users online

Martin's Twitter