Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

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  • How about this: I have written to BMI CEO and only recieved a reply when I emailed his secretary. He passed the matter to his Customer Relations Executive who, after mumbling about addressing staff problems, sent me 75 Euros. On reading your comments on EuReg 261/2004 I sent a formal claim [special delivery] and have been ignored. I don't think they have any intention of adhering to the 261 regulation. the following letter to their CEO explains everything.

    For a number of years my wife and I [both retired] have been saving in order to plan, for our 30th wedding anniversary, a trip to New Zealand.

    Neither of us fancied the long haul from the UK to Wellington and decided that the only way we could undertake such a journey was to have a three night break, by way of recouperation, in Bangkok on the way out.

    We had considered taking the train to Heathrow but since this was a special occasion we decided to fly BMI from Leeds/Bradford Airport [LBA].

    What a mistake.

    Left home 1600 on the 3rd March. Arrived LBA 1620 in good time to check in for the 1855 flight [BD419] to Heathrow. No information was yet displayed on the monitors.

    Eventually the monitor informed us that the flight would leave from gate 7. We sat there becoming increasingly worried as the boarding time went by and we were fast approaching the departure time.
    Then came an announcement that the flight was delayed until 2030. This meant that making our connection to Bangkok was impossible.

    Typically there was no one around at the time of the announcement to answer any questions we might have. I, in fact, had to go to the airport shop to use the phone to try and contact a member of the 'Aviance' staff.

    That too was a fruitless exercise since nobody answered the phone. Eventually after many enquiries we were told that a member of staff would be at gate 7 shortly. This member of staff simply told us to go to the ticket desk where we would be rebooked on a flight the following day. We were - the 1510 [BD417] with an assurance that it was better to take the earlier flight which would give us plenty of time to make our connection and if there were any problems a bus could be organised to take us to London or Manchester.

    We then had to hang around for an hour whilst our luggage was brought from the aircraft. During this period one of Aviance staff conceded that the aircraft had developed technical problems. I later discovered that this was a problem with the braking system and the parts required to fix it were stored at the East Midlands Airport.

    Finally, at our insistence, a taxi was organised to take us home [£25?].

    Left home at 1300 on the 4th March. Arrived LBA 1320. Nothing on the monitor. We were then informed that an announcement would be made with regard to the flight at 1400. This was then revised to 1430.

    I immediately approached a member of staff, asked what the problem was and told her that if there was a 1% chance that this flight would be cancelled would she please tell me because I had plenty of time to catch a train from Leeds which would make my connection from Heathrow to Bangkok. I would have got a more sensible response if I had been speaking to the wall. She simply kept repeating that she had no information.

    Three times I approached her and suggested that I catch the train and each time I got the same negative result. Ironically whilst I was doing this her radio phone came on with a message, presumably from the maintenance crew, which said "we are no nearer fixing this thing". Strange that she kept telling me that she had no information.

    I also discovered that this was the same aircraft that had been cancelled the previous evening and the fault was exactly the same - the braking system. On inquiring if it had been grounded all night I was informed that it had completed two routes that morning. I wonder what the passengers would have thought if they had known they were on an aircraft with suspect brakes?

    Shortly after this somebody hit the panic button and I cannot recall ever seeing such a display of incompetence and a serious training need. The supervisors and staff were running around like headless chickens and did not seem to have a clue what to do.

    All those with connections from Heathrow before 2030 were told by one person to gather at the top of the lounge, someone else said go to gate 7. One announcement was made that actually said "go to the top of the lounge as gate No7 has no door".

    Finally, having mustered in the proper place we were told that there was a flight from Teesside Airport at 1810 that would easily make our onward connections. One of the Aviance staff then invited us to follow her and set off towards the duty free area whilst another member of staff said the same thing and went in the opposite direction, through the arrivals area back to the ticket desk where we were booked on the Teesside flight.

    Once again we waited for our luggage to be taken from the aircraft, after which we were escorted to the taxi rank. There must have been at least 20 of us and I guess 10 taxis [£78 x 10 = £780] were used to transport us to Teesside.

    We arrived at Teesside and were met with undisguised amazement from the Teesside front line staff. Nobody could understand why we had been sent there since they had been experiencing delays all day. When the LBA staff had contacted them they were told that the 1810 was delayed [some said by an hour others said 40mins].

    I am not an airport worker so cannot claim to have the knowledge that the staff at LBA are supposed to possess, but within 15 minutes I had discovered the aircraft in question was one hour [40mins] behind schedule when the original query was made but it was a progressive delay. It seemed obvious to me that the LBA enquirer did not seem to have enough common sense to ask at what part of its route it was currently on when it was delayed by one hour [40mins] and what was its anticipated time of arrival at Teesside.

    When we arrived at Teesside the flight was 2 hours behind schedule, primarily as a result of massive hold ups in London which the Teeside staff claimed they had been experiencing all day. This meant, of course, that, once again, we would not make our connection to Bangkok.

    Again we were sent to the ticket desk to rebook a flight for the next day to Heathrow. We were booked on the 1145 from LBA which I took as an indication of the lack of confidence in any BMI flights that leave LBA after noon. It also meant that we would have a nine hour wait in Heathrow.

    We were then taken to the taxi rank and returned home to Leeds. Some people chose to stay in a hotel at Teesside.

    I find it beyond my comprehension that a company such BMI should place the care of their customers in the hands of such incompetent staff.

    I do have the names of the two supervisors who were responsible for sending us on the Teesside wild goose chase but am reluctant to apportion individual blame when it seems to me that the Company Training Programme appears to be completely devoid of lateral thinking or common sense.

    A 30th anniversary holiday that we had dreamed of was completely ruined due to a stressful start that took us most of our time in New Zealand to recover from. Our plan to spend three leisurely days in Bangkok [which we still had to pay for] turned out to be one evening and a brief morning and that after an eleven hour flight from London left us, on our arrival in New Zealand, in a worse state than if we had flown non stop.
    Irhonically during our stay in New Zealand I developed a leg injury that required wheelchair assistance on my return. The service provided all the way home by Quantas and British Airways was first class but non more so than that provided by the BMI staff at Heathrow. Nothing was too much trouble for them and I was very impressed by their attitude and general demeanour. A credit to BMI. and what a contrast to LBA.

    But to finish how I started: At every airport a wheelchair was waiting to take me from the aircraft on arrival and another one to take me to my next flight for departure.

    On approaching LBA one of the stewards apologised and told me that although they had informed LBA that I would require wheelchair assistance no one had bothered to tell the people who provided the wheelchair and I would have to manage on crutches.

    Why am I not surprised?

    Needless to say I will not be using LBA to fly to Heathrow ever again.

    Some interesting facts: It took us from 1600hrs on 3rd March to 2145hrs on 5th March
    to finally board our flight to Bangkok - a total of 53.75 hours.

    In that same period Great North Eastern Railways ran Approximately 50 trains from Leeds to Kings Cross

    National Express delivered around 40 buses direct from Leeds to Heathrow


    Yours sincerely




    M Ryan
  • We live in Spain most of the time, however, we make min of 3 flights per year and this year I will be travelling back and forth at least 5 times.
    On 17th May I was booked on the 1700 Monarch scheduled flight from Gatwick to Malaga. At check in I was told there was a 1.5 hr delay, but when I got through passport control the screens informed me that my flight would leave at 1900. It actually did, the plane was "pushed back" dead on 1900.

    Monarch said "we apolagise for the delay etc etc several times but offered nothing. No food, no drink no phone calls.

    Two questions
    1. The two hour rule. Is it zero to exactly 2 hours or from 2 hours 1 second thatthe rule applies? Does the 2 hours mean push back or elapsed time or what? All a bit hazy. If the screens in my case had said 2 hours 15 mins would they have had to offer the food and drink?

    2. Does any one out there think I stand a chance of any compensation?

    The original article in Martins email said over 2 hours one could claim €125, is this really true.

    Thanks in advance
  • Reference previous posting

    My flight [from Leeds/Bradford] was cancelled on Thursday Afternoon [technical] put back into service on Friday morning and grounded on Friday evening with the same fault. I was taken to Teesside Airport on Friday evening to discover that the flight there was 2 hours late and of no use.

    BMI offered £75 and claimed "extraordinary circumstances". To my mind a better description would be poor maintenance.

    I contacted the Air Transport User Council and they informed me that BMI had fulfilled their obligations under [EC] 261/2004]. Great it seems that the airlines can claim anything as "extraordinary" and have the blessing of the ATUC.
  • MarkyMarkD
    MarkyMarkD Posts: 9,912
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
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    A few weeks ago, we were delayed by 7 1/2 hours on a BA flight from Gatwick to Crete, and whilst we were adequately sorted out at the airport (with £15 each of vouchers) I'm not sure we are going to get anything else. Our first day's holiday was ruined because we arrived at 0600 at our hotel instead of 2200 and we missed a whole night's sleep.

    The new legislation seems far more helpful to those whose flights are cancelled than those whose flights are delayed - in my view, a 7+ hour delay is a serious disruption to your plans and just getting subsistence during that delay is not adequate compensation.

    Insurance (mentioned above) is all very well, but my travel insurance pays out £10 (LOL) for a >12 hour delay - no help at all in my circumstances and not much help if it was such a long delay either!
  • MiM
    MiM Posts: 658
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    The ATUC have told me they can't investigate my claim because they have no regulatory powers to do so. I've queried this. Each European member state has a duty to appoint a body to enforce the legislation. Either the UK has failed to do so adequately, or the ATUC has misunderstood its obligations.

    In the meantime, I've served a claim on the airline through the County Court, costing me £50.

    By the way Mick, in my opinion your letter to the airline is far, far too long. You'd have a better chance with a succinct account of all the relevant facts - the events and their consequences for you.
  • JCP
    JCP Posts: 127 Forumite
    MSE_Dan wrote:
    This discussion relate to the new article, Compensation for delayed flights. Click reply to discuss.

    Unfortunately I think the article is a bit misleading.
    The possibility of receiving compensation isn't simply related to the start point or end point of a flight being in the EU, the more important factor is whether the airline in question is registered in the EU.

    So, I think that if you were flying Qantas from London to Sydney, or American from London to New York, I don't think the legislation applies (though I'd be very happy to be corrected on this).

    As it is, I suspect that the airlines will claim exceptional circumstances for every aircraft which goes technical and won't pay out anything in the end.

    J
  • Trouble
    Trouble Posts: 8 Forumite
    This is a forum with tales of woe. You all have my sympathy and here is my story and I need some serious help.

    KLM deneid us boarding against our will on a flight from Cape Town to Amsterdam. They have admitted this in writing.

    They are refusing to pay us 600E in compensation because they reckon the EU regulation does not apply because the flight did not start in the EU.

    They say they gave us assistance in SA and that is all they have to do. Their assistance was only given under duress.

    The regulation (copy in fromt of me) makes it quite clear that because they are an EU registered airline and the flight was to the EU the regulation does apply.

    There is a vague suggestion that they should follow South African regulations for denied boarding compensation instead of the EU ones. I cant seem to find any information on these.

    We have referred the case to the Authority in the Netherlands but havent heard anything yet.

    So can anyone help me find more information on my situation? I am concerned we may have to take this to court. I'd like to know if South Africa have any regualtaions to cover this or where I might be able to find out.

    KLM have been really rude to us and treated us very very badly over this situation which they have at least admitted was their fault. But they keep trying to palm us off with paultry amounts of money.

    So any advice would be gratefully received.
    I'd love a phone number for their customer services so I could give them a peice of my mind ;)
  • bigman3
    bigman3 Posts: 53 Forumite
    Trouble wrote:
    This is a forum with tales of woe. You all have my sympathy and here is my story and I need some serious help.

    KLM deneid us boarding against our will on a flight from Cape Town to Amsterdam. They have admitted this in writing.

    They are refusing to pay us 600E in compensation because they reckon the EU regulation does not apply because the flight did not start in the EU.

    They say they gave us assistance in SA and that is all they have to do. Their assistance was only given under duress.

    The regulation (copy in fromt of me) makes it quite clear that because they are an EU registered airline and the flight was to the EU the regulation does apply.

    There is a vague suggestion that they should follow South African regulations for denied boarding compensation instead of the EU ones. I cant seem to find any information on these.

    We have referred the case to the Authority in the Netherlands but havent heard anything yet.

    So can anyone help me find more information on my situation? I am concerned we may have to take this to court. I'd like to know if South Africa have any regualtaions to cover this or where I might be able to find out.

    KLM have been really rude to us and treated us very very badly over this situation which they have at least admitted was their fault. But they keep trying to palm us off with paultry amounts of money.

    So any advice would be gratefully received.
    I'd love a phone number for their customer services so I could give them a peice of my mind ;)

    KLM have very bad customer service (this is based on 3 seperate flights where I had to chase them for compensation). They will initially send you a standard letter denying they owe you compensation and referring to any costs you incur as consequential (even if they are direct costs attributable to a delay/cancellation on their part). Best thing to do is carry on writing to them and threaten legal action or even to set up a web site to highlight their bad service. They soon change gears and get your statutory compensation sent and any other expenses you incur as a result of their bodge ups.
  • Trouble
    Trouble Posts: 8 Forumite
    Did you get your compensation in the end and may I ask what the flights were and how much you got?
    We really do believe that KLM are playing with us. We are going through the relevant authorities at the moment but I am wondering if I should just get a solicitors letter or something to chivvie KLM along. Their customer service is rubbish, I wish there was some way of highlighting this. Do you think there would be much interest for a website shaming KLM?
  • bigman3
    bigman3 Posts: 53 Forumite
    Trouble wrote:
    Did you get your compensation in the end and may I ask what the flights were and how much you got?
    We really do believe that KLM are playing with us. We are going through the relevant authorities at the moment but I am wondering if I should just get a solicitors letter or something to chivvie KLM along. Their customer service is rubbish, I wish there was some way of highlighting this. Do you think there would be much interest for a website shaming KLM?

    Claim 1.One claim was for expenses and a full refund for a ticket after they bumped me off a flight that was overbooked. The staff at Birmingham International Airport knew the flight was overbooked but made up a story of how the computer was not working correctly and I would have to get the boarding passes for my connecting flight in Amsterdam. When I went to one of the KLM transfer desks they laughed and said there was no boarding passes for my flight as it was overbooked. To be fair they did put me up in a decent hotel. I eventually got to my destination 3 days late and was so stressed out etc that I just bought one way tickets for another airline and came back home. Got the buggers at KLM to give me a full refund (50%) for the return portion of the tickets I had not used. I also got my denied boarding compensation. In all it took close to a year to get this out of them.

    Claim 2. Flight form Birmingham was delayed. I had a boarding pass for my connecting flight. I ran through Schipool to get my flight and it was still allowing people to board. They denied me boarding as they claimed my luggage would not be on the flight and I could not go on a flight if my checked in baggage was not on it. Strange that for claim 1 my baggage went to the destination 3 days before me and that airlines do have mishandled baggage cases. They put me and a few others up in a grotty hotel next to a motorway. I did get an upgrade to first class which was nice. I claimed for expenses but again KLM claimed they were consequential. Eventually they agreed they were not consequential expenses and paid up.

    Claim 3. A flight was cancelled and they did not bother giving refreshment vouchers so I spent money on bottled water, newspapers etc. Still waiting for them to sort this out.

    Keep at it do not let them get away with it. KLM think that if they string yo along for months you will lose interest. It might be worth paying a solicitor to get things done.
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