Money Moral Dilemma: Would you park free if it blocked wheelchair access?

americanv8 wrote: »

Maybe but i'm basing that purely on the amount of disabled drivers who think its ok to park in parent & child bay because there's no disabled bays free. I can't park in a disabled bay with a baby and toddler when there's no parent & child bays available.
I can only say i'm pleased that ASDA & Sainsburys are now fining people who abuse both sets of bays.

What I find equally frustrating is the number of parents who without any child in the car (just the seat) - find it their right to a) either park in a parent AND child space (depriving a qualifying mother and child) or if there aren't any available choose the disabled bays instead. This is not an unusual event in my experience.

Yes I am a disabled driver and sometimes wonder at the 'intelligent' parking exhibited by some drivers - clearly, if I had a polite note on the back window asking 'please leave six feet clear.....' then it should be obvious that the essential entry point is the rear of my vehicle? I drive myself by the way - and live and work independently. Do these drivers ignore the warnings on the back of delivery vehicles?

What is reassuring though is that recently in a popular supermarket car park, a very thoughtful lady at no instigation from me had a stand up argument with a young mother (unaccompanied) who had not only parked right behind my car (not on a parent and child bay) but to be so close as to make it impossible for anyone at all to be able to move my vehicle. YM apparently couldn't see what the problem was.....

Yes I'd park there because if the disabled person was in the car (don't assume anything from that notice) they would be in a disabled parking space with blue badge displayed, not an ordinary space. They have more options than us when parking and usually take advantage of them. It could be anyone driving the car without the wheelchair user there.

If the space in front was a disabled space and the blue badge displayed then yes if for a brief period, not otherwise.

No I, or rather my partner and I, wouldn't.
Everyone is going on about the car in question should have either used a disabled space, or parked somewhere where they would be certain they would have the room, rather than in that space so that "they can avoid paying for a space".
Well, they are some rather big assumption and I shall now make my own:
All of the disabled parking spaces have been used up.
They too had looked around for a suitable SPACE but could not find one other than that one, which leads onto....
They would have been happy to pay, but perhaps the P&D Car Park did not have enough room for their needs either and this was the better for the two options, in their opinion?
They opted not to use the "allowed to park on double yellows" or other such rules, because it would have been very inconvenient for the majority of the other road users in the town.
See how it is from the other side? (And I not disabled, so not in a huff because it is something I would do. I just like to think of others before myself most of the time)

oldandwise wrote: »

Can AmericanV8 explain what qualifies a parent with child to have parking bays right on top of the supermarket. Are they unable to walk a few yards? My son-in-law takes his mum shopping and parks in a parent and child bay because as he says he is her child so no law broken there.

Firstly, as previously pointed out throughout this thread, these spaces are provided for the EASE AND SAFETY parents need when taking children shopping. Much like disabled spaces actually.
Secondly, they are for PARENTS AND CHILDREN UP TO 5 (in most cases that I have seen) because around about that age, the space needed to get a child into a car does change. The child (from 3+ I would say, and of these spaces limit you to 0-3 yrs) can climb into the car themselves and then the strapping in becomes much easier/needs less room, so doors do not have to be fully opened.
Have you ever tried to get a baby seat (Im talking proper BABY seats for up to 9 months) out of and back into a car in a normal space. It is terrible and usually ends in either one of the cars getting scuffed, the baby being disturbed (which might sound small, but obviously you know it isn't, having had at least one child!) and/or the parents getting hurt by catching fingers, elbows etc while trying this feat. Might sound silly, but what if you catch your fingers, react instinctively and then DROP your child/seat because of it?
(Oh and my Mum still doesn't park in a P&T space in Tesco if myself and my daughter are with her - which is rare. We park much further away to give us some room to A) Get DD in/out of car safely and easily, and Have enough room to get all the shopping in, while keeping clear of the other cars, as she doesn't use bags but rather has boxes so we stand for quite some time putting it all in car )

As for the person saying that parents don't HAVE to drive to the shop - and then kind of agreeing with the other side, but still trying to keep their original point valid:

I do my main shopping once a month. This is a big shop and cannot be done in the local shops/supermarket as they just do not have everything we need/want and most of the time it would be far more expensive to do even half of it that way (local shops = much higher prices, not good for me and my budget).
Therefore, when we do it, we go to the next town over (about 8 miles, maybe 10 to the actual shop) and, while there is public transport available to me, it would be pure murder for me to go on my own, with my 2 yr old on either a bus or a train and THEN have to bring all of the shopping back as well. Most of the time, it just about fits into the boot of the car! So we go, by car, and use the P&T Space, so that our daughter is safer when we get her out of the car. If the spaces were at the back of the car park, we would STILL use them. We also try to go when there are less people so that if we cannot get that space, we will go towards the back of the car park anyway and walk.
Then the issue of ordering online. That can be a no-go for people for MANY reasons.
1: No CC/DC available to use online. -Which was me, until recently.
2: No money in account. - If you do have a DC, but do not have the money in the account, then using the cash you have on you is the only option (unless you have 0% overdraft and money will go in within the next day or two) and you cannot be rid of the child(ren).
3: The supermarket not actually offering everything you want online. -This does happen and some people also like to check for reduced items, or for items that need to be seen/tried on etc before purchasing.
4: Not being able to spend the minimum if there is one, but still needing quite a lot of items.
5: Going on the way to a holiday/whatever and only having that hour or two to do it, so having child(ren) with you anyway. -If they need to use the WC, then P&T are good, as you can get what you need, while other half deals with child(ren).
6: No internet access. -Contrary to popular belief, not everyone has access to the internet at their home and using a library or others public places would be too inconvenient. This leads onto....
7: Does not trust safety of their details over the internet. -Understandable that not everyone does really.
So, for the people suggesting that parents don't always have a CHOICE, they are not being silly, or whatever it was you were trying to prove (and then disproved by agreeing with certain situations) because these are the types of situations they meant, they just didn't happen to go into them in any detailed.
Obviously, they stupidly thought that people would use their common sense and realise that not all parents had a choice of whether or not to drive to a supermarket all of the time!!

Any sorry for epic rambling. Feel much better now. Sorry to anyone who takes anything as a personal attack or insult, it was not meant that way, just trying to explain myself clearly - hence epic ramble lol!
And now it is off to cook dinner for aforementioned DP and DD. Enjoy your evening all

BigSky wrote: »

Absolutely NOT! Only the most ignorant lazy !!!!!! would do that.

I’d park in a “family” parking bay though even if I was on my own. Why should people that decide to bring their screaming, fat, badly-behaved kids round the supermarket get special parking bays?

Cause otherwise the kids will bash your lazy fat ignorant behaved..... car? :rotfl:
You're just as ignorant as parking in a diabled parking space if you ask me.
:rolleyes:

There are a couple of things I just wanted to add to this thread (apologies if already covered by someone but it's been a long day !! )Looking at the original dilema and seeing many replies regarding parking in a disabled space, I cannot see where it mentions a disabled space. Merely that you spot a space and the car in front has a sign in the rear window. In which case, it is not an illegal act, but a moral one...... hence the title "Moral Dillema". Obviously MSE wouldn't be asking if anyone would deliberately flout the law to save money!

With regard to the "fat, screaming children with parents with special parking bays" comment. The reason these parking bays were invented was so that inconsiderate drivers who just pull into a bay in a "I'm alright Jack" attitude are far enough away so parents can safely open their doors to get their children in.
I recently had to leave my children beside my car (luckily they are neither fat or screaming or god knows what I would have done ) so that I could pull out of a space as the person next to me had parked so close (after me) I could hardly open my door let alone enough to get a child in a (very visible pink) car seat. The "gentleman" returned and as he pushed his trolley down the drivers side of his car !!! commented I was blocked the rear of his vehicle. I politely apologised and it worked out well as he actually had time to light his fag before he rocketed .... sorry.. drove off.

Now for my own morals ...:p. I would like to think that I would find somewhere else to park but I know that a) if I was on way to a Dr's appointment or something like that I would be tempted to park. Also, with 3 children (again I point out not fat and mostly not screaming ) I could quite possibly not even notice the sign unless it was a glaringly obvious one.

Lastly, I have never quite understood the whole disabled parking thing. Why is it ok for a disabled driver to park on double yellow lines when they are there as it is not a safe place to park? Surely someone who will take longer negotiating parking, getting out of veh, to their destination and back again will be put in as much of a dangerous situation as any other driver on the road?? (obv this is off on a tangent to the bay parking)