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  • FIRST POST
    • rose28454
    • By rose28454 23rd Sep 08, 8:57 AM
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    rose28454
    Who is liable for this crash
    • #1
    • 23rd Sep 08, 8:57 AM
    Who is liable for this crash 23rd Sep 08 at 8:57 AM
    My DD was driving to work this morning and was passing a crossroads and the vehicle on the left junction was pulled partly out into the road so my daughter pulled over the line a bit to get round him ( she was going straight on) and suddenly a car on the right junction pulled out and hit her side on and badly damaged her door. She said he only seemed to have damage to his number plate and so they swapped details and she came home. He has now rung and asked for the registration number ( that he forgot to take). She told him she had a large excess (500.00- she is only 22) and so would rather not go through her insurers and he said his excess is 325.00. The problem is that she is crap with money and never opens her post and when we looked for her policy details she found a letter to say her policy had been cancelled 2 weeks ago due to non payment of the last months premium. I am going over to see him shortly so I am wondering what to do. He wants her insurance details which obviously she does not have. What shoe she do? Obviously she should be insured but he is liable as he hit her car.
    I despair of her as she is crap with money ( spend it all on clothes!) and I am on my own ( recently seperated) and struggling with money and debt issues and there always seems to be some financial scrape for me to get her out of. Should we tell him she is not insured or just refuse to give him the details. I think he may then try to wriggle out of paying. Also should we report the accident to the police bearing in mind she is not insured??
Page 1
    • cogito
    • By cogito 23rd Sep 08, 9:15 AM
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    cogito
    • #2
    • 23rd Sep 08, 9:15 AM
    • #2
    • 23rd Sep 08, 9:15 AM
    There seem to be two separate issues here - the insurance which she's legally obliged to have and the accident which is a civil matter. If the other driver accepts liability, lack of insurance doesn't come into it as she can still recover her loss. If the other driver thinks that your daughter was at fault (and we haven't heard his side), that is more problematic and you'd have to deal with that yourselves.

    You are obliged by law to give him insurance details so how you deal with that is up to you. Best hope is to play on his sympathy and hope he's a decent chap.

    Meanwhile, reinstate the insurance.
  • uktyler
    • #3
    • 23rd Sep 08, 9:19 AM
    • #3
    • 23rd Sep 08, 9:19 AM
    Had your daughter crossed the white lines?
    Was she even partly on his side of the road?

    At 22 she should be old enough to deal with her own problems, not opening her mail is no excuse for driving uninsured.
    • Poppy9
    • By Poppy9 23rd Sep 08, 9:27 AM
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    Poppy9
    • #4
    • 23rd Sep 08, 9:27 AM
    • #4
    • 23rd Sep 08, 9:27 AM
    Quite honestly if I was in an accident and found out the driver was uninsured I would report the matter to the police. There is no excuse for driving uninsured.

    If he has her registration details and gives the information to his insurance company, you are obliged to inform them of any accident even if you do not make a claim, then they will know she is not insured.
    ~Laugh and the world laughs with you, weep and you weep alone.~
    • SandC
    • By SandC 23rd Sep 08, 9:39 AM
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    SandC
    • #5
    • 23rd Sep 08, 9:39 AM
    • #5
    • 23rd Sep 08, 9:39 AM
    She should own up to him and hope that he only does have damage to his number plate. He may decide to go to the police. The problem that you have is that if your daughter was on the other side of the road, over the line, in any way then it is not his fault. Regardless of what she was avoiding, that is how it works.

    He may be a reasonable man and your daughter may be lucky if she only has to pay for a new numberplate. The damage to her car is also her responsibility.

    Had her insurance been valid then she may have been able to get them to fight her corner in view of the vehicle which was jutting out into the traffic, but unfortunately she has no hope of anyone representing her.

    I would ask her to ring the gentlemen concerned, rather than you. It might not go down well if someone's mother rings up trying to sort things out.

    Good luck with it.
    • cogito
    • By cogito 23rd Sep 08, 9:47 AM
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    cogito
    • #6
    • 23rd Sep 08, 9:47 AM
    • #6
    • 23rd Sep 08, 9:47 AM
    if your daughter was on the other side of the road, over the line, in any way then it is not his fault. Regardless of what she was avoiding, that is how it works.
    Not necessarily. If there was a Give Way sign (and we don't know that), he is obliged to give way. He appears not to have seen the other car or set off before it was safe. Either way, that would amount to negligence.
    • rose28454
    • By rose28454 23rd Sep 08, 10:01 AM
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    rose28454
    • #7
    • 23rd Sep 08, 10:01 AM
    • #7
    • 23rd Sep 08, 10:01 AM
    Not necessarily. If there was a Give Way sign (and we don't know that), he is obliged to give way. He appears not to have seen the other car or set off before it was safe. Either way, that would amount to negligence.
    Originally posted by cogito
    Thanks for all your input. There is a give way sign and he obvisously pulled out to quickly fromthe damage to her car. We are just off to see him now. I take on board all your comments re her being responsible and I have already read her the riot act. I am in severe financial difficulty and have been trying to explain to my daughter that I cant always pick up the pieces. Will let you know how we get on. She has got some quotes and it will be about 300 to fix her car.
    • SandC
    • By SandC 23rd Sep 08, 10:58 AM
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    SandC
    • #8
    • 23rd Sep 08, 10:58 AM
    • #8
    • 23rd Sep 08, 10:58 AM
    That's fair enough cogito.

    Without insurance cover though, he can say what he likes and deny everything even if would have been deemed at fault by the insurers (sounds a bit like 50/50 to me anyway).

    300 not too bad damage on her car, it sounded like it would be a lot more.
    • rose28454
    • By rose28454 23rd Sep 08, 12:17 PM
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    rose28454
    • #9
    • 23rd Sep 08, 12:17 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Sep 08, 12:17 PM
    We went to see him and the damage to his car is a scratched bumper and cracked number plate. He said he needed to get quotes as he did not know if there was any underlying damage. My oh has looked at the car and we all agree that he hit her and as she was on main road he is liable. Re insurance we have re-instated it and will give him policy number later. Regardless I dont think my daughter should pay ( insured or not ) for hers or his car. If her insurance dont want to know how can we pursue him for payment ourselves. I know there is an issue re her insurance status but he did hit her so he is still liable.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 23rd Sep 08, 12:21 PM
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    Quentin
    If he knows your daughter was uninsured and you pursue him, expect police involvement, and big trouble! Luckily for her she just was involved in damage, not injury!

    Even if he doesn't yet know, he will find out she was uninsured if he makes a claim (either via her insurer or via his own).

    Settling up with him will be much cheaper than facing the consequences of driving with no insurance.
    Last edited by Quentin; 23-09-2008 at 12:36 PM.
    • rose28454
    • By rose28454 23rd Sep 08, 12:52 PM
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    rose28454
    If he knows your daughter was uninsured and you pursue him, expect police involvement, and big trouble! Luckily for her she just was involved in damage, not injury!

    Even if he doesn't yet know, he will find out she was uninsured if he makes a claim (either via her insurer or via his own).

    Settling up with him will be much cheaper than facing the consequences of driving with no insurance.
    Originally posted by Quentin
    The point is he hit her and not vice versa. Yes she was stupidly not insured but he is insured and therefore should pay up for her damage. He damaged his car when he hit her!
  • uktyler
    The point is he hit her and not vice versa. Yes she was stupidly not insured but he is insured and therefore should pay up for her damage. He damaged his car when he hit her!
    Originally posted by rose28454
    Her car should not have been on the road.

    If he pursues this with the police you daughter will be fined, and have points on her licence.

    In my opinion you are better off saying to him you will cover the damage to your car if he repairs his.

    If you claim off him, he will go through the insurance, and they will find your daughter was not insured and report her to the police.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 23rd Sep 08, 1:05 PM
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    Quentin
    Whatever the "point", you came onto this money saving forum for advice.

    Your daughter risks big criminal trouble for driving uninsured. If she is done for this, then the money involved over the years (fine plus heavy insurance premiums) wll be far more than just paying the guy off.

    She will be worried whether the crime comes to light for a long time, as the third party only has to report the incident with her details to either insurer involved (or the police) for the truth to come out.

    Cut your losses now!
    • Poppy9
    • By Poppy9 23rd Sep 08, 1:26 PM
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    Poppy9
    The point is he hit her and not vice versa. Yes she was stupidly not insured but he is insured and therefore should pay up for her damage. He damaged his car when he hit her!
    Originally posted by rose28454
    We went to see him and the damage to his car is a scratched bumper and cracked number plate. He said he needed to get quotes as he did not know if there was any underlying damage. My oh has looked at the car and we all agree that he hit her and as she was on main road he is liable. Re insurance we have re-instated it and will give him policy number later. Regardless I dont think my daughter should pay ( insured or not ) for hers or his car. If her insurance dont want to know how can we pursue him for payment ourselves. I know there is an issue re her insurance status but he did hit her so he is still liable.
    by rose28454
    When you say "we all agree" who is we? Is it you, OH, and DD or does it include the other driver?

    Is the insurance backdated to when the policy lapsed? If so did you inform the insurance company about the accident? You have to tell insurance companies everything, else they can void the policy.

    He may suspect she is uninsured hence the reluctance to pass on insurance details. This gives him the upper hand.

    He is getting his car checked for more damage, ask yourself why. I suspect because he is not admitting liability but is seeing how much damage there is before making his decision. If you disagree with his POV then the matter of your daughter being unisured will be brought to light, your insurance company may refuse to cover or even cancel the policy. Then when your daughter tries to get new insurance and they ask if you have ever had insurance declined or cancelled you have to answer yes. She may then find herself refused insurance by other companies.
    ~Laugh and the world laughs with you, weep and you weep alone.~
  • tinkerbell84

    Is the insurance backdated to when the policy lapsed? If so did you inform the insurance company about the accident? You have to tell insurance companies everything, else they can void the policy.
    .
    Originally posted by Poppy9
    Spot on. If they've just re-started the cover from the point you phoned, then your daughter was uninsured and it was illegal for her to be on the road.

    If I was the other driver, and that was the case, I'd be getting the book thrown at her.
    • Idiophreak
    • By Idiophreak 23rd Sep 08, 2:15 PM
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    Idiophreak
    The point is he hit her and not vice versa. Yes she was stupidly not insured but he is insured and therefore should pay up for her damage. He damaged his car when he hit her!
    Originally posted by rose28454
    Sad to say it, but you really give up any "rights" you have regarding this kinda thing when you drive uninsured. I guess you could try pressing ahead with some kinda civil claim, but the cost will be (as uktyler says) a criminal charge against your DD. It really isn't worth it for the amount of money we're talking about here.
    • raskazz
    • By raskazz 23rd Sep 08, 2:27 PM
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    raskazz
    I'm sure you don't need to be told that your daughter has done something very silly, to put it mildly, and she is now in a Catch-22 position:

    If your daughter does not divulge her insurance details (or lack thereof) to the other party then she is guilty of an offence. Furthermore, what would happen is that the third party's insurers would discover that she was uninsured via a number plate search of the motor insurance database, they would then deal with the third party's claim and potentially take her to court to recover the money if they feel that she was fully or partly responsible for the accident (or her previous insurer may have to deal with it and then recover the money from your daughter). They could also report her to the police for driving without insurance.

    If she confesses that she is not insured then the third party will have her over a barrel, and can effectively force her to repair his car by implying that they will report her to the police if she does not, despite the rather unclear liability for the incident.

    Your daughter could potentially try to pursue the third party for the damage to her car, but if the matter did proceed to court then her credibility would be severely damaged through the lack of insurance.

    IMO the best option would be to offer to pay for the third party's repairs. It is the lesser of a few evils.

    BTW, your daughter will have to disclose the cancellation of the policy by the insurer to all her future insurers, which means that she could face difficulty in obtaining cover at reasonable rates. If you added a conviction for driving without insurance then she may well be effectively priced off the road for the next five years.
    Last edited by raskazz; 23-09-2008 at 2:33 PM.
    • cogito
    • By cogito 23rd Sep 08, 2:47 PM
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    cogito
    Spot on. If they've just re-started the cover from the point you phoned, then your daughter was uninsured and it was illegal for her to be on the road.

    If I was the other driver, and that was the case, I'd be getting the book thrown at her.
    Originally posted by tinkerbell84
    That's a pretty nasty vindictive kind of thing to do, don't you think? Why on earth would you want to do that?
    • cajef
    • By cajef 23rd Sep 08, 3:02 PM
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    cajef
    That's a pretty nasty vindictive kind of thing to do, don't you think? Why on earth would you want to do that?
    Originally posted by cogito
    You may change your mind if it was your car she had written off, or maybe one of your family she could have maimed for life and she is uninsured, I am sorry but irresponsible people that have no thought for how their actions can effect other lives deserve all they get coming to them.
    I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.
    • raskazz
    • By raskazz 23rd Sep 08, 3:09 PM
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    raskazz
    That's a pretty nasty vindictive kind of thing to do, don't you think? Why on earth would you want to do that?
    Originally posted by cogito
    For one it would mean that future insurers will know about her careless attitude to such matters and will charge her a premium appropriate to the actual risk she presents, rather than spreading the risk across other innocent policyholders.
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