Planning Portal for Idiots

dollythedog · 27 January 2020 at 7:09AM

Can anyone please explain the Planning Portal in simple English?
It's very confusing on who is responsible for Building Regulations

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200187/your_responsibilities

at the top it says it's the building owner (regardless of whether approval is needed/applied for)

go down to the left hand 'Building Regulations' box and it says it's both the person carrying out the work AND (if it's not the same person) the building owner

click on the Building Regulations box and the next page says 'if you are employing a builder, the responsibility will usually be theirs - but you should confirm this at the very beginning'

then it goes on to say 'if you are the owner of the building it is ultimately you who may be served with an enforcement notice if the work does not comply with the regulations'

apologies for being dim, but if a building owner confirms responsibility with a builder, how can the building owner still be responsible?

what's the point of agreeing responsibility with a builder if it ends up the owner's responsibility if the builder messes up?

:question:

Doozergirl · 27 January 2020 at 9:09AM

Because the law makes it ultimately the owner's responsibility because it's their house and asset, so easy for the LA to prosecute.

It's their responsibility to be employing the right people in the first place. Why should the builder 'mess up'? It's the homeowner's ultimate responsibility to specify correctly using the appropriate professionals in both design and build. If they delegate responsibility to a builder, it is delegated, not relinquished.

The builder doesn't own or live in the house, so It's clear who has the vested interest and asset.

Do you want to provide some context here and get the real question answered?

dollythedog · 27 January 2020 at 9:22AM

the real question is the ambiguity of the Planning Portal: if both the person carrying out the work AND the building owner are responsible, how is that responsibility apportioned?

Doozergirl · 27 January 2020 at 9:24AM

The homeowner is responsible to the local authority, the builder is responsible to the homeowner IF that has been agreed.

The government aren't interested in your contract with a builder. They'll take the easiest route. How the homeowner then deals with it is up to them.

dollythedog · 27 January 2020 at 9:37AM

aaahhh thank you! that isn't clear anywhere else

it was agreed, builder said local authority permissions were not needed and went ahead doing what he said was ok, I was silly enough to believe him

having found out he was wrong, local authority have been fantastic, visited & approved what they can, I am dealing with the rest

what you've said is SOOOO helpful, thank you again

dollythedog · 27 January 2020 at 9:46AM

one last question: the PP also says:
First, if a person carrying out building work contravenes the Building Regulations, the local authority may prosecute them in the Magistrates' Court where an unlimited fine may be imposed (sections 35 and 35A of the Building Act 1984). Prosecution is possible up to two years after the completion of the offending work. This action will usually be taken against the person carrying out the work (builder, installer or main contractor).

doesn't that say the builder has a responsibility to the local authoritygovernment?

that's separate from enforcement notice to the owner, which is 'alternatively or as well'

Doozergirl · 27 January 2020 at 12:36PM

Just get it done properly and choose a builder that is reputable next time.

They're not going to be prosecuting anyone, they're running on a shoe string.

What did you have done? How many builders did you speak to?

dollythedog · 27 January 2020 at 2:27PM

I'd love to get it done properly but I can't afford it! if the estimate had been priced for compliance in the first place I'd have known I couldn't afford it and wouldn't have even started

only the one one builder, he's done several kitchen/bathroom/utility refits for me in 2 houses over 12 years, perfect results every time, nothing ever went wrong so I trusted him absolutely

this time it's an integral garage that was being used as utility/storage when I bought the house, it had sink/washer/freezer and tatty old cupboards down the party wall, it was pitch dark and freezing cold

what seems to have gone wrong is that he's treated it like an internal re-fit when it is built to different standards from the house, single brick external wall, damp course in the wall but none on the floor, and I didn't realise the consequences being a simple-minded person who's never had any building work apart from the above stuff that I was so happy with

I asked for the space to be separated so the inside part could be more comfortable utility, the outside part for storage keeping the existing garage door

I asked for a radiator & window in the utility bit

he designed it with a plasterboard dividing wall, nobody realised that by introducing heating it triggered Part L2 of the 2010 regs, the window is structural and the wall should be fireproof so it is classed as 'conversion' and not just the 'internal alterations' he estimated for

I have found all this out over the last couple of months, Building Inspector said it was fine to have a window, I paid for regularisation and that's been signed off, she confirmed it's ok to keep the sink, washer & freezer

to keep the radiator I'd have to rip out everything he's done so far, take the floor up, damp-proof, insulate then re-lay it, reconstruct the partition wall with fireproofing & insulation, insulate the party wall, take out the insulation he's put on the external wall & under the flat roof and re-fit with damp/condensation protection

there's no way I would have accepted an estimate in the first place for all of that, I have paid him already for 50% of the price which includes the non-compliant work, there's no way he will re-do the work to compliance for his price, and I can't afford to pay again for all the extras

I have promised BC (who were wonderfully helpful) to remove the non-compliant work, I do accept responsibility to the local authority, I just couldn't understand what the builder was responsible for and what you said made it all fall into place so you've also been wonderfully helpful

I will never, never trust anyone and make that mistake again

Doozergirl · 27 January 2020 at 6:59PM

Have they issued the certificate for your window? Just leave it all in place. They won't come back to check, but she can't tell you to keep it for obvious reasons.

When you go to sell, it isn't a proper conversion, so don't attempt to sell it as such.

If you aren't using the garage for cars and flammable product then the fire risk is no more than any other room which doesn't have to be fireproofed.

People have done far worse. At least you didn't pay the price for doing it properly if it isn't.

Just enjoy what you have and come and ask us next time you have building work done and we'll help you with what needs to comply.

That okay?

nb. It's nice to hear your inspector was a lady

dollythedog · 27 January 2020 at 7:59PM

yes thanks, I have the certificate and the inspector was really great (although at my advanced age she looked like a schoolgirl - am I jealous? yes of course!)

the fireproof bit was about the dividing wall that has to come down, she said a future owner could store fuel in the front storage part, I guess it could be petrol for a mower, or you could easy fit a motorbike in there, so I can see the point

it all makes sense when you understand the rules and I still can't believe my builder didn't realise

the whole Building Regs thing was about selling - I sold my previous house with a genuinely exempt conservatory, the buyers' solicitor asked for written council confirmation which I got no trouble

so this time, because the builder was so sure the garage was exempt, I asked for confirmation so I'd have it ready when the time comes to sell - the rest is history

it was sold to me as 'garage with light, power, plumbing, fridge/freezer space and various wall cupboards, Building Inspector has confirmed in writing that is ok for a garage and I am fine with re-selling as the same

shame there aren't more lady builders about, I reckon I'd get more sense, and nice to know there's a good source of advice here if I ever pluck up the courage to do more than paint the walls ever again!

Planning Portal for Idiots

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