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  • FIRST POST
    • Another_Guy
    • By Another_Guy 12th Jan 20, 9:46 PM
    • 15Posts
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    Another_Guy
    PayPal rejecting claim for fraudulent transactions
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 20, 9:46 PM
    PayPal rejecting claim for fraudulent transactions 12th Jan 20 at 9:46 PM
    Hi All,

    I had my eBay & card details hacked which resulted in 4 unauthorised transactions being made via PayPal.

    The first thing I did was speak to bank to get cards cancelled who advise I need to contact PayPal to get the money back.

    I logged a claim with PayPal who rejected it because apparently their investigation shows the transactions were not unauthorised (obviously not true). After days going through further steps I then get told it's eBay's issue because the PayPal account is linked to my eBay account.
    When I spoke to eBay they told me to resolve this with PayPal (where the payment went through and nothing to do with them).

    I then spoke to PayPal again who just fobbed my off saying these transactions don't appear unauthorised and I must now deal with this issue with my bank.

    When speaking to my bank they were shocked by the poor advice PayPal told me and said this is there responsibility because the payments went through them.

    How do I get out of the loop where everyone is just denying it's their problem.

    Does anyone have a list of CEO & executive email addresses for PayPal so I can scream at them?
Page 1
    • soolin
    • By soolin 12th Jan 20, 10:07 PM
    • 63,169 Posts
    • 45,601 Thanks
    soolin
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 20, 10:07 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 20, 10:07 PM
    I don't think I have recently come across a situation where PayPal has denied a buyer claim for unauthorised use , what reason are they giving you for denying your claim. They don't just say they won't reimburse you, they must believe that the claim is wrong and have some reason for believing so.

    Did the hacker get access to your eBay *and* PayPal account, did they add a new PayPal email to your account, as if so that means they also had access to,your emails.

    Somehow , if I am reading this correctly, it appears that hacker had access to,your emails, eBay, online banking and PayPal accounts - that's a lot for someone to hack. Have you worked out how they did it, have you checked your PC for a key logger virus, or (as I suspect is what PayPal are considering) could someone close to you have had access to your accounts due to poor security ?
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • Another_Guy
    • By Another_Guy 13th Jan 20, 12:22 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Another_Guy
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 20, 12:22 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 20, 12:22 AM
    It all started off around 6am one morning when I received alerts for translations I'd not approved. Amazon purchases were made from my bank card but not Amazon account (which I got back from the bank) the remaining items were eBay purchases for items like game vouchers. The clever !!!!!!s deleted the items from the purchase history in eBay so I initially I just thought only my card details & PayPal were stolen.

    I never really knew which accounts were compromised so I reset the passwords for everything I have (facebook, PayPal, eBay, email addresses etc.) Later when returning home and running scan on pc it was showing as having a virus so I suspect my login details were stolen from that.

    PayPal initially just closed the claim with a vague response saying no authorised transactions were made. Through further screaming and chasing they just said the purchases were made from eBay (and that account is linked to PayPal) so not unauthorised and not their problem.

    Both eBay & bank are referring me back to Paypal who refuse to help.

    The never said the claim was rejected do to neglect.
    • Another_Guy
    • By Another_Guy 13th Jan 20, 10:45 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Another_Guy
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 20, 10:45 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 20, 10:45 PM
    #UPDATE#

    I've logged a complaint via the website resolver.co.uk but PayPal have just replied with the following email so looks that that site is a waste of time?

    Any suggestions?

    Letter I wrote via resolver:

    Dear Sir / Madam,

    I am writing to you to raise an issue about: Payment Services

    The issue that I have experienced was: My bank card details & accounts such as eBay were compromised which resulted in unauthorised payments bring made for eBay purchases via PayPal.

    I first spoke to my bank and got all the transactions refunded apart from the PayPal ones and was told they need to be dealt with by PayPal.

    I've have logged a claim with PayPal who declined it by refusing to accept these transactions as unauthorised and initially told me to raise this with eBay because my PayPal account was link with my eBay one.

    I then spoke to eBay who denied any responsibility advising the payments were made from PayPal therefore needs to be deal with by themselves.

    I then spoke to PayPal again only to be told their investigations doesn't show these transactions as unauthorised, closed the case and this time referred me to my bank to deal with it.

    I've spoken to my bank who are denying any responsibility and told me PayPal have incorrectly advised me saying the payments were made via PayPal so needs to be raised with themselves (Have you noticed a pattern where I'm going round in circles yet?)

    It occurred on: 18/12/2019

    This meant that I've lost money in the process causing my unnecessary stress during the Xmas period.

    I've managed to get one of the four transactions refunded by the seller (see screenshot attached) but not the remaining and would like PayPal to reverse these transactions (which are clearly unauthorised despite you refusing to accept this) so I can get my money back.

    I look forward to your prompt response on this matter. As recommended by Trading Standards, I would like to keep a complete record of my case, so please reply to this email address.

    Yours faithfully,

    Dave Clarke
    Response from PayPal:

    Dear Dave Clarke,

    Thank you for your email.

    PayPal is unable to share data with third parties outside of the terms and conditions set out in the PayPal Privacy Notice. As you have contacted us through a service that is outside of these terms, we are unable to assist with your request at this time.

    Should you still need support, please contact us directly by phone or email by clicking on the 'Contact Us' link at the bottom of the PayPal website and we will be happy to help.

    Yours Sincerely,

    PayPal
    • soolin
    • By soolin 14th Jan 20, 8:54 AM
    • 63,169 Posts
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    soolin
    • #5
    • 14th Jan 20, 8:54 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Jan 20, 8:54 AM
    I assume you currently still have access to your paypal account if you have safely changed your passwords- make sure you save screen shots of the transactions in dispute and more importantly the addresses where the goods were sent (or were they all to the same place?)

    Once you have those addresses you can at least save some details, look the addresses up online and have more information available further down the line.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • SuperPikachu
    • By SuperPikachu 14th Jan 20, 12:03 PM
    • 322 Posts
    • 544 Thanks
    SuperPikachu
    • #6
    • 14th Jan 20, 12:03 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Jan 20, 12:03 PM
    Does the resolver.co.uk email send from a different email from their own site? (I have heard of it but never used it, I assumed it was just email/letter templates)

    If so send that exact same email from your own personal email again to them.
    "Wild Pikachu appeared!"
    • zerog
    • By zerog 16th Jan 20, 6:16 AM
    • 2,460 Posts
    • 873 Thanks
    zerog
    • #7
    • 16th Jan 20, 6:16 AM
    • #7
    • 16th Jan 20, 6:16 AM
    What poor service from your bank. Forget paypal and complain to the bank. Once they refund and compensate you heavily, switch to a different bank.
    • Another_Guy
    • By Another_Guy 20th Jan 20, 11:02 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Another_Guy
    • #8
    • 20th Jan 20, 11:02 AM
    • #8
    • 20th Jan 20, 11:02 AM
    My bank is taking no responsibility to help me and blaming it all on PayPal. I've now raised as complaint with a financial ombudsman service (who will take approximately 14 weeks to get back to me).

    I'll never using PayPal services again.
    • RFW
    • By RFW 20th Jan 20, 11:35 AM
    • 9,053 Posts
    • 5,232 Thanks
    RFW
    • #9
    • 20th Jan 20, 11:35 AM
    • #9
    • 20th Jan 20, 11:35 AM
    Have you reported this to the police?
    It sounds to me like this may be someone with access to your computer/bank accounts rather than an online hack. I may well be totally wrong but from what I've read that has to be a possibility.


    As a further piece of advice I'd say to contact the various parties on Twitter. An open tweet to Paypal asking why they seem to have changed their protection for you might get your complaint directed to a higher body.
    .
    • Another_Guy
    • By Another_Guy 20th Jan 20, 11:52 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Another_Guy
    PayPal keep giving some BS about their investigation traced the IP addresses and have no evidence to believe this is an unauthorised transaction so refusing to reverse these transactions.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 20th Jan 20, 12:17 PM
    • 63,169 Posts
    • 45,601 Thanks
    soolin
    PayPal keep giving some BS about their investigation traced the IP addresses and have no evidence to believe this is an unauthorised transaction so refusing to reverse these transactions.
    Originally posted by Another_Guy
    Which is the worry I had and which RFW alluded to above- it means they strongly believe this is someone you know or that you have left your account insecure allowing someone known to you access. if you have 'allowed' (and I have put that in quotation marks as allowed can mean accidentally) someone access to your account then they can argue that you are at fault - I don't think they would go as far as accuse you of actively allowing the fraud. It is a very strong statement for them to make, and not one they make lightly.

    As I asked above and which you have not responded to - have you checked the address that any goods were sent to- do you know of anyone connected to that address or that locale ?

    Have you also taken steps to secure all your online activity - if you were not aware of the hack that means they had your bank details, paypal and email log in details- they may have more and a complete change of all online passwords would probably not come amiss. Just as a reminder- log out of everything at all times, don't leave ebay or paypal accessible on any mobile device- even if it is pin or fingerprint enabled.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • Another_Guy
    • By Another_Guy 20th Jan 20, 12:56 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Another_Guy
    The goods were eBay purchases of vouchers codes for items like Amazon & Xbox game codes so sending address is not relevant. Assuming they would have obtained these codes from logging into my eBay account and reading the messages from sellers.

    I can't 100% say how they stole my details but suspect it occurred from my machine picking up a virus (which I later discovered when running a scan when returning home from work).

    If the cause of the breach was due to neglect at my end, surely PayPal would have just advised something like: we are unable to reverse these transactions because they believe it's was affect of you not taking the necessary precautions to secure your data.

    But instead they have just said they can't identify these transactions as unauthorised (which they clearly are).

    I have since changed every password I can think of multiple times, replaced the pc hard drive with a fresh copy of Windows so no trace of the virus left on it.
    • RFW
    • By RFW 20th Jan 20, 2:09 PM
    • 9,053 Posts
    • 5,232 Thanks
    RFW
    PayPal keep giving some BS about their investigation traced the IP addresses and have no evidence to believe this is an unauthorised transaction so refusing to reverse these transactions.
    Originally posted by Another_Guy
    This sounds like they believe the transactions to originate from a computer, phone, tablet or whatever that you have used in the past.
    You need to think really hard about this.
    The virus may be a red herring.
    .
    • soolin
    • By soolin 20th Jan 20, 2:14 PM
    • 63,169 Posts
    • 45,601 Thanks
    soolin
    The goods were eBay purchases of vouchers codes for items like Amazon & Xbox game codes so sending address is not relevant. Assuming they would have obtained these codes from logging into my eBay account and reading the messages from sellers.

    I can't 100% say how they stole my details but suspect it occurred from my machine picking up a virus (which I later discovered when running a scan when returning home from work).

    If the cause of the breach was due to neglect at my end, surely PayPal would have just advised something like: we are unable to reverse these transactions because they believe it's was affect of you not taking the necessary precautions to secure your data.

    But instead they have just said they can't identify these transactions as unauthorised (which they clearly are).

    I have since changed every password I can think of multiple times, replaced the pc hard drive with a fresh copy of Windows so no trace of the virus left on it.
    Originally posted by Another_Guy

    This bit you quoted is what is worrying me

    and have no evidence to believe this is an unauthorised transaction so refusing to reverse these transactions.
    That is about as close as any financial institution will get to accusing anyone of being involved in some way, either direct or indirectly. A virus would not be showing an IP address connected to you so it might just be a co incidence.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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    • Another_Guy
    • By Another_Guy 24th Jan 20, 6:56 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Another_Guy
    Thought I'd add some extra detail about this despute.

    I wish I had recorded this telephone conversation when I spoke to eBay.
    Because the unauthorised purchases made were for voucher & coupon codes, the sellers had actually broken the eBay terms and conditions by messaging or emailing me the keys instead of sending them in the post (which resulted in the hackers obtaining those details to later sell off). I was then told I not to worry and was reassured that I'll get my money and the sellers will be at loss so not my problem.

    Unfortunately because I initially raised this dispute with PayPal first not realising the purchases were made from my eBay account (since the clever !!!!!!s deleted those specific items from my purchase history). eBay basically told me will now have to resolve this with PayPal since there's an open case with them.

    PayPal rejected the claim not due my own neglect but because the purchases were made via eBay which had PayPal linked to the account (so apparently eBay's responsibility).

    So basically if I had raised this despute with eBay first I would have got my money back. So I'm at loss due to a glitch in their processes.

    Is it worth raising a complaint with financial ombudsman service with eBay too? (Already have one pending with PayPal).
    • soolin
    • By soolin 24th Jan 20, 8:43 AM
    • 63,169 Posts
    • 45,601 Thanks
    soolin
    Thought I'd add some extra detail about this despute.

    I wish I had recorded this telephone conversation when I spoke to eBay.
    Because the unauthorised purchases made were for voucher & coupon codes, the sellers had actually broken the eBay terms and conditions by messaging or emailing me the keys instead of sending them in the post (which resulted in the hackers obtaining those details to later sell off). I was then told I not to worry and was reassured that I'll get my money and the sellers will be at loss so not my problem.

    Unfortunately because I initially raised this dispute with PayPal first not realising the purchases were made from my eBay account (since the clever !!!!!!s deleted those specific items from my purchase history). eBay basically told me will now have to resolve this with PayPal since there's an open case with them.

    PayPal rejected the claim not due my own neglect but because the purchases were made via eBay which had PayPal linked to the account (so apparently eBay's responsibility).

    So basically if I had raised this despute with eBay first I would have got my money back. So I'm at loss due to a glitch in their processes.

    Is it worth raising a complaint with financial ombudsman service with eBay too? (Already have one pending with PayPal).
    Originally posted by Another_Guy
    This is not the case- a claim can be opened in either ebay or paypal for items bought on ebay.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
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