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    • leftholdingthebaby
    • By leftholdingthebaby 14th Jan 20, 2:38 PM
    • 26Posts
    • 10Thanks
    leftholdingthebaby
    69 year old man on low rate DLA
    • #1
    • 14th Jan 20, 2:38 PM
    69 year old man on low rate DLA 14th Jan 20 at 2:38 PM
    I am writing this post for an elderly family friend. He was on DLA High Rate Care and Mobility Lifetime Award. In 2014 he had a re-assessment of his DLA, was visited by a 'Health Care Professional' at home and had his Mobility completely removed and his High Rate Care downgraded to Low Rate Care. I do know that Lifetime and Indefinite Awards have been scrapped, but he did not appeal as he didn't know how to and I have only been told about this today.

    He's now 69 and is really struggling, can anyone please advise what he should do, is he able to ask for a re-assessment of his DLA or will he be migrated onto PIP. I know he can't apply for Attendance Allowance as he is receiving Low Rate Personal Care DLA.

    Any suggestions gratefully received. Thank you.
Page 2
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 15th Jan 20, 8:43 PM
    • 4,475 Posts
    • 3,037 Thanks
    calcotti
    Robbie, I have never come across that before nor seen it referred to. Thanks for highlighting it. Confess I can’t see the logic of that exception given that under DLA rules, as I understand it, a claimant could not increase their mobility entitlement after pension age.

    Interesting briefing on mobility benefit issues for pensioners here https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN07160/SN07160.pdf
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 15th Jan 20, 9:17 PM
    • 6,470 Posts
    • 5,964 Thanks
    poppy12345

    Interesting briefing on mobility benefit issues for pensioners here https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN07160/SN07160.pdf
    Originally posted by calcotti
    That link doesn't work for me.
    • Robbie64
    • By Robbie64 15th Jan 20, 9:22 PM
    • 1,029 Posts
    • 845 Thanks
    Robbie64
    Robbie, I have never come across that before nor seen it referred to. Thanks for highlighting it. Confess I canít see the logic of that exception given that under DLA rules, as I understand it, a claimant could not increase their mobility entitlement after pension age.

    Interesting briefing on mobility benefit issues for pensioners here https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN07160/SN07160.pdf
    Originally posted by calcotti
    Thanks for the link. I notice that the document I linked to is also referred to on page 4 in the briefing paper.



    I've always assumed that the DLA to PIP conversion exception which allows people aged 65+ to be awarded a mobility component was done on the grounds of fairness. As it was expected that most people would move from DLA to PIP under managed migration it would be unfair to penalise anyone with mobility problems who was aged under 65 on 08/04/13 (the start date for PIP) but who may have turned 65 when it was that person's turn to be invited to claim PIP.
    • Robbie64
    • By Robbie64 15th Jan 20, 9:25 PM
    • 1,029 Posts
    • 845 Thanks
    Robbie64
    That link doesn't work for me.
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    It's working fine for me.


    Try to see if you can download the report from the report summary page

    https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN07160#fullreport
    • bigbill
    • By bigbill 16th Jan 20, 12:11 AM
    • 857 Posts
    • 494 Thanks
    bigbill
    Well done Robbie64 saved me the time hunting for that very info.

    Good job people looking for advice realise not to trust everything said here and double check elsewhere.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 16th Jan 20, 7:29 AM
    • 4,475 Posts
    • 3,037 Thanks
    calcotti
    Thanks to everyone who corrected me. I have amended my earlier posts to reduce risk of misleading anyone reading this thread in the future. My apologies to OP for giving incorrect information.
    I've always assumed that the DLA to PIP conversion exception which allows people aged 65+ to be awarded a mobility component was done on the grounds of fairness. As it was expected that most people would move from DLA to PIP under managed migration it would be unfair to penalise anyone with mobility problems who was aged under 65 on 08/04/13 (the start date for PIP) but who may have turned 65 when it was that person's turn to be invited to claim PIP.
    Originally posted by Robbie64
    It of course creates a different unfairness in that these late transfer claimants now have access to a mobility award (which they would not have had if they were staying on DLA) and have had more years in which to develop relevant health issues. No doubt when they wrote the legislation, in usual optimistic fashion, they didn't anticipate that they would still be dealing with transfers in 2020. (I have no idea what the current anticipated completion date is.)

    Haven't managed to find the relevant guidance in Advice to Decision Makers or Decision makers Guide but no doubt it's there. The relevant regulation for the age exception is regulation 27 of The Personal Independence Payment (Transitional Provisions) Regulations 2013.

    For the OP, I have found confirmation that, in these circumstances, if a PIP claim is refused with a nil award then the claim should be treated asa claim for AA without a separate claim being required..

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-fact-sheets/pip-handbook
    DLA claimants who have turned 65 after 8 April 2013
    If an existing DLA claimant claims PIP after they have turned 65 and receives a nil award, their claim to PIP will automatically be treated as a claim to Attendance Allowance. They will not have to make a separate claim although they may be asked to provide further information.
    Thanks again to all.
    Last edited by calcotti; 16-01-2020 at 7:43 AM.
    • leftholdingthebaby
    • By leftholdingthebaby 16th Jan 20, 1:33 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    leftholdingthebaby
    A big thank you to each and everyone of you for all your advice. There's so much to take in, but having read it through slowly, I understand that if his migration to PIP is a nil award, his claim will be automatically treated as a claim for AA.

    I am going to offer him options as I don't want to get the blame if his DLA is stopped completely, so just a couple of more questions please.

    His original DLA was for high rate personal care and high rate mobility, this was reduced in 2014 to just low rate care after a health care assessment and he didn't appeal. The assessment terrified him, and I have heard many horror stories of these assessments. BTW, he's only recently told me about all this as he's a very private person.

    In everyone's opinion, should he apply for PIP now rather than waiting for the 'migration' letter, or should he wait and stay on low rate personal care DLA. I'm not sure how much recent medical evidence he has to hand to support his PIP claim, but I do know that he is in a lot of pain.

    Also, if his PIP award is just granted for low rate personal care, should he appeal to try and get it overturned to High Rate personal care and also get the Mobility component or will it automatically be treated as a claim for AA if he is given a low rate care on PIP? That's what I'm reading from calcotti's reply, although, as I said, it's a struggle to understand how disability benefits work. And yes, the DWP didn't anticipate that the migration would still be going on in 2020.

    Once again, many thanks to everyone.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 16th Jan 20, 1:43 PM
    • 4,475 Posts
    • 3,037 Thanks
    calcotti
    In everyone's opinion, should he apply for PIP now rather than waiting for the 'migration' letter, or should he wait and stay on low rate personal care DLA. I'm not sure how much recent medical evidence he has to hand to support his PIP claim, but I do know that he is in a lot of pain.
    Originally posted by leftholdingthebaby
    That has to be a judgement based on how his medical conditions affect him and his state of mind in dealing with the process. By its nature there isn't a definitive answer.

    Also, if his PIP award is just granted for low rate personal care, should he appeal to try and get it overturned to High Rate personal care and also get the Mobility component or will it automatically be treated as a claim for AA if he is given a low rate care on PIP?
    Originally posted by leftholdingthebaby
    PIP has Daily Living and Mobility components. There is no low rate for Daily Living, only standard and enhanced rates (equivalent to mid and high rates of DLA Care).

    As I read it, the PIP claim will only be treated as a claim for AA if no PIP award is made.
    • leftholdingthebaby
    • By leftholdingthebaby 16th Jan 20, 3:17 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    leftholdingthebaby
    Thanks Calcotti, so given the worse scenario, he is currently on Low Rate Personal Care DLA, if he gets awarded Standard Rate PIP, he would be better off with Standard Rate PIP which as you say is the equivalent to mid rate DLA Care. Am I correct?
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 16th Jan 20, 3:59 PM
    • 6,470 Posts
    • 5,964 Thanks
    poppy12345
    Thanks Calcotti, so given the worse scenario, he is currently on Low Rate Personal Care DLA, if he gets awarded Standard Rate PIP, he would be better off with Standard Rate PIP which as you say is the equivalent to mid rate DLA Care. Am I correct?
    Originally posted by leftholdingthebaby
    Yes, that's correct.



    As for whether he should apply or remain on DLA until he's invited, only he can make that decision. Do be aware though that DLA and PIP are different benefits, with different criteria.
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