PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.

Tenancy inspection query

13

Comments

  • Comms69
    Comms69 Posts: 14,229 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    crispy_duck wrote: »
    I'm not sure that you do have that right.

    I've not been here long enough yet to post links, but www dot gov dot uk slash private-renting tells you your rights and responsibilities.



    As far as I can see, it says nothing about a right to be present. I think 'reasonable time of day' means not at 4am. The fact is that the landlord (or their agent) has the right to enter the premises with 24 hours' notice, and they've given you this notice so there's not much you can do. I doubt I need to say this, but DO NOT change the locks as someone has suggested, this is undoubtedly an unauthorised alteration to the property. IANAL, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were grounds for eviction.
    s.21 requires no 'grounds for eviction'. Changing the locks is perfectly legal.


    The tenant has a right to be there whenever they choose.
  • crispy_duck
    crispy_duck Posts: 40 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Combo Breaker
    Comms69 wrote: »
    s.21 requires no 'grounds for eviction'. Changing the locks is perfectly legal.

    It's legal, in the sense that it isn't a criminal offence, yes. If the tenancy agreement states that no unauthorised alterations may be made to the premises (and every tenancy agreement I've ever had has stated that) then it would be a breach of that agreement, and potentially render the tenant liable to a s.8 eviction. The landlord has a legal right of access to their property either way - changing the locks is not a clever ploy to get round that.

    The tenant has a right to be there whenever they choose.

    They do, but this is massively pedantic - what they don't have is a right to oblige the landlord to schedule the inspection at a time that is convenient for them to be there, which is clearly the substance of what I was saying.
  • Comms69
    Comms69 Posts: 14,229 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    crispy_duck wrote: »
    It's legal, in the sense that it isn't a criminal offence, yes. If the tenancy agreement states that no unauthorised alterations may be made to the premises (and every tenancy agreement I've ever had has stated that) then it would be a breach of that agreement, and potentially render the tenant liable to a s.8 eviction. - yes, potentially, and potentially the tenant will win the lottery next week.... if you can find case law where a judge has granted an eviction for this, ill accept it, but £5 to a charity of your choice says you cant. The landlord has a legal right of access to their property either way - changing the locks is not a clever ploy to get round that. - actually it is, it stops access and forces the agent and ll to the negotiating table.




    They do, but this is massively pedantic - what they don't have is a right to oblige the landlord to schedule the inspection at a time that is convenient for them to be there, which is clearly the substance of what I was saying.
    Except they do, because as previously stated, the tenant can simply refuse access.


    Why would the LL want to evict a good tenant over such a small issue is beyond me. But landlords on the whole dont evict good, paying tenants. and agents cant evict period.
  • fairy_lights
    fairy_lights Posts: 9,220 Forumite
    crispy_duck wrote: »
    It's legal, in the sense that it isn't a criminal offence, yes. If the tenancy agreement states that no unauthorised alterations may be made to the premises (and every tenancy agreement I've ever had has stated that) then it would be a breach of that agreement, and potentially render the tenant liable to a s.8 eviction. The landlord has a legal right of access to their property either way - changing the locks is not a clever ploy to get round that.
    But how will a landlord ever know that the tenant has changed the locks, unless they try to gain unauthorised access to the property?
  • saajan_12
    saajan_12 Posts: 3,621 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Combo Breaker
    The tenancy agreement can give the LL a contractual right to enter the property, giving 24hours written notice, entering at a reasonable time, with reasonable frequency (eg not every week). This does not contravene the tenant's statutory right to quiet enjoyment.
    Comms69 wrote: »
    Except they do, because as previously stated, the tenant can simply refuse access.

    Physically, yes the tenant can block access by changing the locks. However if they don't change locks, they cannot prevent reasonable access by simply denying the LL's notice if the TA states reasonable access upon notice and doesn't allow for the tenant's agreement or a mutually convenient time.
  • Comms69
    Comms69 Posts: 14,229 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    saajan_12 wrote: »
    The tenancy agreement can give the LL a contractual right to enter the property, giving 24hours written notice, entering at a reasonable time, with reasonable frequency (eg not every week). This does not contravene the tenant's statutory right to quiet enjoyment.



    Physically, yes the tenant can block access by changing the locks. However if they don't change locks, they cannot prevent reasonable access by simply denying the LL's notice if the TA states reasonable access upon notice and doesn't allow for the tenant's agreement or a mutually convenient time.
    Indeed, but LLs and Agents should be wary when the £200 cash goes missing from the kitchen drawer... having the tenant there is obviously beneficial to actually point out problems too.


    Most agents are not trained to spot everyday problems by sight.
  • saajan_12
    saajan_12 Posts: 3,621 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Combo Breaker
    Comms69 wrote: »
    Except they do, because as previously stated, the tenant can simply refuse access.
    Comms69 wrote: »
    having the tenant there is obviously beneficial to actually point out problems too.
    The smart action is another issue, this is a question of rights - the LA employee is insisting on access for a tick-boxing exercise, which the tenant doesn't have the RIGHT to refuse. If the LL/LA has served proper notice for reasonable access which is permitted by the tenancy agreement, then unless the tenant physically changes the locks, they can't simply refuse access.
    fairy_lights wrote: »
    But how will a landlord ever know that the tenant has changed the locks, unless they try to gain unauthorised access to the property?
    By gaining access which was authorised by the tenant through the tenancy agreement (assuming the tenancy agreement allows reasonable access upon 24 hrs notice, without a clause for mutually conventient time, and the LL complies with this)
  • Comms69
    Comms69 Posts: 14,229 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    saajan_12 wrote: »
    The smart action is another issue, this is a question of rights - the LA employee is insisting on access for a tick-boxing exercise, which the tenant doesn't have the RIGHT to refuse. - yes they do. I'm sorry we seem to be just arguing the point, but the tenant can refuse access to anyone. If the LL/LA has served proper notice for reasonable access which is permitted by the tenancy agreement, then unless the tenant physically changes the locks, they can't simply refuse access. - So hypothetically the tenant stands in the way, are you suggesting they can force their way in? Yes that's extreme, but the tenant can refuse access. What can they do if the LA/LL ignores it, well not much.


    By gaining access which was authorised by the tenant through the tenancy agreement (assuming the tenancy agreement allows reasonable access upon 24 hrs notice, without a clause for mutually conventient time, and the LL complies with this)



    I think this is all getting out of hand. At the minute it's just a stubborn agent
  • crispy_duck
    crispy_duck Posts: 40 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Combo Breaker
    By gaining access which was authorised by the tenant through the tenancy agreement (assuming the tenancy agreement allows reasonable access upon 24 hrs notice, without a clause for mutually conventient time, and the LL complies with this)

    It's nothing to do with the tenancy agreement. It's the law. Specifically, section 11 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985.
  • crispy_duck
    crispy_duck Posts: 40 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Combo Breaker
    Comms69 wrote: »
    I think this is all getting out of hand. At the minute it's just a stubborn agent

    Or a stubborn tenant...
This discussion has been closed.
★ ★ ★ Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 247.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards