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  • FIRST POST
    PineappleSesame
    Yet another parking eye query, not the driver
    • #1
    • 18th Sep 13, 10:30 PM
    Yet another parking eye query, not the driver 18th Sep 13 at 10:30 PM
    Hi, sorry to be yet another newbie asking about parking eye.

    My husband got stuck on the M25 for several hours on Friday 6 September, whilst driving to Leeds. Exhausted, he stopped at motorway services on the M1 and fell asleep for 3.5 hours from 9.30pm to 1am.

    Today the parking eye letter arrives with the standard 60 now or 100 in 2 weeks.

    I am the reg owner so it has come to me.

    Husband ignored a similar ticket last year so has no intention of responding. But I am a worrier and not happy about being the recipient of debt collection letters etc.

    I have been researching and am aware of the changes in law last year and the impact on me as reg keeper, plus poplar etc. However I have a couple of questions which I can't work out the answer to:

    1. Tactically, do I tell them husband was driving now? I don't want to make his situation worse by dropping him in it, but nor do i fancy being taken to court (which may or may not happen). I'm thinking another option is to do nothing, but then tell them he was driving if it looks like they are going to take things further, on the basis they then have to start the process again with him?

    2. I know people go on about the need to do the poplar appeal, but I don't really see the point as the fact is he was there for 3.5 hours, and poplar aren't interested in mitigating circumstances, so we will lose. I know if we lose we don't need to pay and they still have to enforce through the small claims court, but surely a lose with poplar would not help us in court.

    Any thoughts on tactics?

    Thank you...
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th Sep 13, 10:44 PM
    • 78,185 Posts
    • 91,758 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 18th Sep 13, 10:44 PM
    • #2
    • 18th Sep 13, 10:44 PM

    2. I know people go on about the need to do the poplar appeal, but I don't really see the point as the fact is he was there for 3.5 hours, and poplar aren't interested in mitigating circumstances, so we will lose. I know if we lose we don't need to pay and they still have to enforce through the small claims court, but surely a lose with poplar would not help us in court.
    Originally posted by PineappleSesame



    The bit in bold is wrong...which is where you are getting confused. You will not lose at POPLA. You do not send 'mitigating circumstances' as a POPLA appeal of course, or you WOULD indeed lose! You send one of ours - or your own version of it - and we win 100% of the time now.

    So you would firstly be best to start reading relevant threads recently about Motorway Services Areas (MSAs) and any threads with POPLA appeals wording.

    Motorway Service Area (MSA) threads about PE are everywhere on this forum, covered dozens of times and of course you must appeal to POPLA - but using the right words and grounds of appeal!! We help posters like you win at POPLA in 100% of cases against Parking Eye so as you can imagine, YES it is worth doing it right.

    To see how other people have appealed to POPLA in MSA situations, just use the 'search this forum' facility (top right of the titles above the threads on page one of the parking board) and put in the acronym 'MSA' and (IMPORTANT!) change the default search first to 'show posts' (not show threads). Read the results.

    Same goes for when searching the parking forum for 'POPLA' - change the default search to 'show posts (but be aware almost every thread mentions that keyword!).

    And you should be assertively and angrily complaining in no uncertain terms and NOT thinking you have 'no excuse' for exhaustion! If you decide to try the complaint first, your phone call to the Manager of the MSA needs to be much stronger than 'can you do something about it...oh...alright then never mind'. Look at all these successful complaints I have collated in just 5 weeks!

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...php?p=62837690

    and notice the MSA complaint successes among them! Do that first - because a cancelled ticket by the MSA means you don't even have to bother with POPLA.

    And there is NO ADVANTAGE to naming the driver at this stage at all. You should be complaining - and sending a challenge as the registered keeper, talking about 'the driver' anonymously in the third person. Your challenge is purely to get the 'golden ticket' of the POPLA code.

    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 18-09-2013 at 10:48 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 18th Sep 13, 10:47 PM
    • 25,652 Posts
    • 41,622 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #3
    • 18th Sep 13, 10:47 PM
    • #3
    • 18th Sep 13, 10:47 PM
    Hi, sorry to be yet another newbie asking about parking eye.

    My husband got stuck on the M25 for several hours on Friday 6 September, whilst driving to Leeds. Exhausted, he stopped at motorway services on the M1 and fell asleep for 3.5 hours from 9.30pm to 1am.

    Today the parking eye letter arrives with the standard 60 now or 100 in 2 weeks.

    I am the reg owner so it has come to me.

    Husband ignored a similar ticket last year so has no intention of responding. But I am a worrier and not happy about being the recipient of debt collection letters etc.

    I have been researching and am aware of the changes in law last year and the impact on me as reg keeper, plus poplar etc. However I have a couple of questions which I can't work out the answer to:

    1. Tactically, do I tell them husband was driving now? I don't want to make his situation worse by dropping him in it, but nor do i fancy being taken to court (which may or may not happen). I'm thinking another option is to do nothing, but then tell them he was driving if it looks like they are going to take things further, on the basis they then have to start the process again with him?

    2. I know people go on about the need to do the poplar appeal, but I don't really see the point as the fact is he was there for 3.5 hours, and poplar aren't interested in mitigating circumstances, so we will lose. I know if we lose we don't need to pay and they still have to enforce through the small claims court, but surely a lose with poplar would not help us in court.

    Any thoughts on tactics?

    Thank you...
    Originally posted by PineappleSesame
    1. No. Keep your powder dry on that for another day. The option to do nothing is always there - as long as you understand all the risks and ramifications of doing so. If you have done enough research already, I don't think you'd be asking that question in the context of PE.

    2. Mitigation won't work with the PPC (in terms of having the PCN cancelled - but it will in getting a POPLA code) and will never work with POPLA (note no 'R' in POPLA). But you won't be putting any mitigating circumstances to POPLA, you need technical/legal challenge. Sorry if that sounds a tad harsh and me ignoring what happened, by all means tell your story to POPLA, but you'll end up losing!

    So this is what you need to do - it is a thumbnail outline of the process, one I produced for another poster. It covers most bases, some may not be appropriate to you, so skim over those that don't, but if unsure, just ask.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=63099617&postcount=2

    HTH
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • PineappleSesame
    • #4
    • 21st Sep 13, 8:04 AM
    • #4
    • 21st Sep 13, 8:04 AM
    Thanks v much - will be researching and getting ready to appeal this weekend!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 21st Sep 13, 12:00 PM
    • 25,652 Posts
    • 41,622 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #5
    • 21st Sep 13, 12:00 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Sep 13, 12:00 PM
    Thanks v much - will be researching and getting ready to appeal this weekend!
    Originally posted by PineappleSesame
    Have you spoken with the Motorway Service provider, as per Coupon-mad's advice? There are a number of recent cases where this assertive phone call has seen the PCN cancelled by the MS provider.

    That will save you a lot of appeals work! Try it and see. If no joy you're no worse off than where you are now, and you could be a whole lot better off.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • PineappleSesame
    • #6
    • 21st Sep 13, 9:59 PM
    • #6
    • 21st Sep 13, 9:59 PM
    Yes thank you - I am finding my way around this forum a bit more now and spotted some really useful stuff. I have just done a written complaint to Welcome Break directly to ask for them to urgently look at this. My husband actually has a pretty major health condition (cancer...long story...) so have thrown that into the mix (don't tell husband though as he hates it being raised, but I'm thinking needs must!)

    I will let you know what response I get!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 21st Sep 13, 10:42 PM
    • 25,652 Posts
    • 41,622 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 21st Sep 13, 10:42 PM
    • #7
    • 21st Sep 13, 10:42 PM
    Yes thank you - I am finding my way around this forum a bit more now and spotted some really useful stuff. I have just done a written complaint to Welcome Break directly to ask for them to urgently look at this. My husband actually has a pretty major health condition (cancer...long story...) so have thrown that into the mix (don't tell husband though as he hates it being raised, but I'm thinking needs must!)

    I will let you know what response I get!
    Originally posted by PineappleSesame
    Sorry to hear of your husband's condition and I hope he can make good progress in coping with it. This is a really important point in the context of this PCN. The principal and the PPC must make adjustments for him (Equality Act 2010 - protected characteristics apply).

    The fact that he was exhausted must surely be linked to his condition, and as someone who has dealt with someone close with cancer, I know how true exhaustion manifests itself.

    I'm sure Coupon-mad will be along shortly with some advice on the additional action you can take in this case.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Sep 13, 10:55 PM
    • 78,185 Posts
    • 91,758 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 21st Sep 13, 10:55 PM
    • #8
    • 21st Sep 13, 10:55 PM
    Sorry to hear of your husband's condition and I hope he can make good progress in coping with it. This is a really important point in the context of this PCN. The principal and the PPC must make adjustments for him (Equality Act 2010 - protected characteristics apply).

    The fact that he was exhausted must surely be linked to his condition, and as someone who has dealt with someone close with cancer, I know how true exhaustion manifests itself.

    I'm sure Coupon-mad will be along shortly with some advice on the additional action you can take in this case.
    Originally posted by Umkomaas


    Yes, someone with cancer or other long-term medical condition (Blue Badge or not) has a lawful right to a reasonable adjustment of time in this situation.

    It's illegal for a service-provider to implement a blanket policy, like an arbitrary time limit, if it has a detrimental effect or causes disadvantage to a person with protected characteristics. A parking charge cannot kick in at the same time - 2 hours - for a disabled (or elderly, or maternity protected) person as it does for a non-Equality Act protected person.

    Although this is a PPC it's relevant that a few Councils (Norwich & Lincoln for starters) have only just dodged being sued by a group of disabled campaigners over this sort of thing and have adjusted their policies across the UK with reasonable adjustments of time for disabled people in car parks (not just disabled bays). Private parking firms, however, are still breaching the Equality Act left, right and centre - despite it also being a breach of the statutory 'Equality Act Code of Practice on Services, Public Functions and Associations' (on the EHRC website) which became law in way back in April 2011!

    Welcome Break should cancel this immediately like they did in this case:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4762065&page=1

    ...the wording to use in your complaint is in some posts on that thread which you can tweak to suit your own case. Phone up the Welcome Break and escalate the complaint to a regional manager if the general manager on site is useless.

    Let us know when it's ben cancelled as I'm keeping a thread about complaint success against PPCs.

    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 25-09-2013 at 12:20 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • PineappleSesame
    • #9
    • 24th Sep 13, 9:27 PM
    • #9
    • 24th Sep 13, 9:27 PM
    Hello again

    Very speedy response from Welcome Break agreeing to cancel the charge on this occasion. So very relieved!

    Thank you so much for the moral support....I'll be very happy to join the success story page.

    I'm sorry I didn't keep my exact wording for anyone else who may read this thread, but I explained the context, explained husband's condition, and slipped in the need for a "reasonable adjustment" to be made.

    Thanks all!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 24th Sep 13, 9:42 PM
    • 25,652 Posts
    • 41,622 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Hello again

    Very speedy response from Welcome Break agreeing to cancel the charge on this occasion. So very relieved!

    Thank you so much for the moral support....I'll be very happy to join the success story page.

    I'm sorry I didn't keep my exact wording for anyone else who may read this thread, but I explained the context, explained husband's condition, and slipped in the need for a "reasonable adjustment" to be made.

    Thanks all!
    Originally posted by PineappleSesame
    Well done PS, just the result you needed.

    I do hate the phrase 'on this occasion' - especially as this was an Equality Act situation. It's the 'gritted teeth' response that is just not called for.

    Nonetheless, a result is a result. Good on you. Hope your husband makes good progress. Best wishes.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 24-09-2013 at 9:46 PM.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case papers, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 25th Sep 13, 12:25 AM
    • 78,185 Posts
    • 91,758 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hello again

    Very speedy response from Welcome Break agreeing to cancel the charge on this occasion. So very relieved!

    Thank you so much for the moral support....I'll be very happy to join the success story page.

    I'm sorry I didn't keep my exact wording for anyone else who may read this thread, but I explained the context, explained husband's condition, and slipped in the need for a "reasonable adjustment" to be made.

    Thanks all!
    Originally posted by PineappleSesame


    Well done - you must have worded it strongly and clearly enough!

    You have earned your place in the Hall of Fame sticky thread of successful PPC complaints:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249

    HTH - always complain about any fake PCN.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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