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    • bod1467
    • By bod1467 7th Dec 11, 4:33 PM
    • 14,794 Posts
    • 13,463 Thanks
    bod1467
    While many worry about online shopping safety, in terms of consumer rights it’s a blessing. The Distance Selling Regulations mean that if you buy online or by phone, you have a right to change your mind within seven days, even if there’s no fault. Just send the goods back to get a refund of the price and delivery charge – though perhaps not the cost of returning it, depending on whether the retailer covers this in their T&Cs.
    by MSE Article
    My suggested tweaks in bold. (First paragraph under the heading "Become a roboshopper").
    • wealdroam
    • By wealdroam 7th Dec 11, 4:51 PM
    • 18,662 Posts
    • 15,598 Thanks
    wealdroam
    Hi
    am after a bit of advice
    Ordered a pair of shoes from office on 29/11/11
    it was dispatched on 01/12/11
    started tracking it online at HDNL and it was out for delivery on 3rd December early in the morning, and then was scanned back in the depot later that evenning (about 6pm).
    Had to ring up and arrange redelivery for it for yesterday - my grandad waited in all day for it and it never turned up!
    rang up today and they said they tried to deliver it at the address which is in Manchester at 20.58 no answer so they left a card, yet it was scanned back in the depot in warrington at 21.08 - there is no way on gods hold earth that you could make it form manchester to warrington in ten mins!
    it has been scanned back into the depot twice today! I have been on the phone to them several times, twice being told they would send an email and try and get it on a delivery today and the last time i spoke to them they said it would not be ddelivered today so whoever told me that was wrong!
    told them no one attempted to deliver or left a card and they said they will put in a complaint about the driver and get it out for tomorrow.

    where do i stand with this??

    and worse case, if its not delivered tomorrow i am going to have to take the day off on friday to try and pick it up from the depot.

    am so frustrated and so blummin annoyed!!!!!
    Originally posted by kimbokoo
    You ask where you stand.

    Have you read the article that this thread is discussing?
    • smala01
    • By smala01 7th Dec 11, 5:14 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    smala01
    Has anyone experienced the fact Yodel (employed by Amazon) dump parcels instead of delivering them?

    In our case our parcel was dumped by the roadside half a mile from our farm (we are remote!).

    Amazon simply reply with a template apology email but no explanation.

    Anyone know a contact at Amazon who is interested in what has occurred?
    Originally posted by COSTLYPETROL
    Amazon once delivered a parcel and the delivery agent left it in the paper recycling box - which was then promptly collected and recycled.

    The card left stated "left in recycle bin" so there was no excuse for this dozy delivery person.

    Smala01
    • TomWantsToGoTraveling
    • By TomWantsToGoTraveling 7th Dec 11, 5:19 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    TomWantsToGoTraveling
    Failed Deliveries from a Retailers Point of View

    We are a small company that dispatches 100 parcels a day using "Yodel" - Everyone has had bad experiences with any one of the many couriers in one way or the other, but Yodel from my experience is the "best of the worst".
    Small companies rely on 3rd parties to deliver your goods and it is therefore the company that is responsible for you receiving your parcel. Do not be fobbed off - if you don't want to email, then ring them on the customer services number - contact them within a reasonable space of time, it is your responsibility to say that your goods have not been delivered. A good company will want you to get your goods and reorder from them - it is therefore their job to contact the courier and queue for 20 mins! However do not expect immediate results.

    I also understand how frustrating it is when a parcel has not been delivered. I have heard all the excuses from customers and couriers.
    No delivery is 100% - we get round this by saying to "expect" your parcel by a certain day.

    A courier company makes it as difficult as possible for a company like mine to get money back from them.
    Always contact the retailer first - if they are being a pain, vote with your feet - by from someone else.

    Xmas is the busiest time of year for deliveries, so delays will happen. Nothing is guaranteed. Vans break down, drivers get sick.
    Therefore do not order last minute!
    If you have chosen a Next day by 12 service and the goods arrive later, then a good courier should refund the difference.

    If possible, do not take a day off work and wait - have it delivered to your work address or leave instructions "if not in, please leave......."

    Couriers are supposed to get signitures for deliveries - otherwise they use their "common sense" to leave it with your neighbour or "in the green recycling box out front", or round the back. Common sense however is not common. A driver does not know if you live in a Crimewatch area and you have thieving neighbours. They just want to deliver your parcel and go.
    If you pop out, then that is your fault for popping out - leave a note on the door - then driver has something they can take away.
    Couriers are supposed to leave a card - however sometimes they do not - sometimes they do not even ring your bell - sometimes they even sign for it themselves if they are on tight time schedules. Inexcusable. Contact the retailer. Explain what has happened. My experience is that the majority of the general public are honest.

    Unfortunately there are drivers who do sign for parcels and the delivery company does hide behind the T&Cs - therefore the retailer will say that the product has been delivered, therefore end of story. Therefore always pay by credit card. A good retailer will give you the benefit of the doubt - I know we do. Otherwise you can get you money back via credit card

    The system is not perfect. Ideally when the courier pushes the door bell, they should always be able to contact you, but this is not the case.

    Remember, vote with your feet!
  • Cathy01
    I'm really suprised that this has been written, so much so that its got me registering to say so.

    Its the whole 'compensation nation' culture that is going to extremes, and does everyone really think that us, the consumers, won't pay for this in the long run?

    Courier services won't cover the costs, so it will be left to retailers to do this, and if they are stuck in the middle paying out compensation to customers and getting no redress from the couriers, where do you think the money will come from?

    Prices will inevitably go up, and we will all end up paying, and the couriers who are really at fault will be untouched.

    Look at what happened with car insurance ..... as soon as everyone got wind that you could say you were injured or traumatised and get a payout if an accident happened, everyone and their dogs did it and insurance premiums went up. Now we all complain about the cost of insurance!

    I'm quite suprised that Martin, who I have heard complaining about the costs of car insurance would be promoting something on his website which will have the same effect.

    There is no such thing as free money, compensation has to be paid for by someone, and the sooner this country realises that and stops try to claim for every little thing that goes wrong, the better!
  • emsgrandad
    loss of work / earnings due to failed delivery
    [
    #
    There are many people who ae self-employed / freelance, and who work out of home for a number of clients. Hard-copy work has to be delivered to them , often while they are out , so a "safe place" / neighbour is designated... with the arrangement that a card is left by the courier inducating what ha been done re a delivery.

    If the courier fails to comply , one then has to lose work and / or time and / or payment , to obtain delivery.

    Should one simply invoice the courier for the monetary amount it has cost them ??
  • cheryl0902
    Failed to deliver YODEL strikes again!
    Why am i not surprised to see so many complaints regarding YODEL delivery.
    I received notification that my parcel was on its way on the 25th November, I duly kept an eye on the tracking...it went backwards and forwards to Bristol delivery depot many times, the tracking just said "consignee cannot be reached".
    I rang Yodel, (many times) offered them my phone number for the courier, they said that he would not have any credit on his phone to ring me!
    On the 6th of December I still had not received my parcel and 3 others that had been sent from the same company (Brandalley)
    These parcels consisted of many of my Christmas presents for my family. I eventually gave up on the 6th when all four tracking numbers said "delayed incomplete address" I requested a refund from Brandalley and cancelled my orders, they were happy to do this and said that they would be complaining to YODEL, I said good luck with that!
    The almost funny thing is...Yodel delivered to me today 7/12, a hamper sent as a gift from Laithewaites, work that one out!
    Footnote Yodel B2B delivery works, HOME DELIVERY COURIERS DO NOT!
  • audirob
    As MSE is well viewed I hope many people will see this and hopefully improve your delivery success.

    I am a trainer for a delivery company.

    When ordering online in the third line of address detail that is rarely used put your telephone number. As this will always be printed on the delivery label and on his handheld scanner and the driver can call you if he has problems locating.

    If you know your having a delivery please leave a note on the door or in your window specifying what neighbour will take your delivery in your absence.

    If you want the parcel left leave a signed note saying where you want it left with a signature and the driver can take that away as your signature and leave the parcel as instructed.

    I deliver between 50-110 stops per day and if people would do the above it would make things so much easier.

    And also before I go it's busy this time of year and sometimes staff sickness or poor quality agency staff prevent us from being able to deliver first time but we want you to get your parcel as much as you want it!!
    • MSE Martin
    • By MSE Martin 7th Dec 11, 7:34 PM
    • 8,116 Posts
    • 42,310 Thanks
    MSE Martin
    As MSE is well viewed I hope many people will see this and hopefully improve your delivery success.

    I am a trainer for a delivery company.

    When ordering online in the third line of address detail that is rarely used put your telephone number. As this will always be printed on the delivery label and on his handheld scanner and the driver can call you if he has problems locating.

    If you know your having a delivery please leave a note on the door or in your window specifying what neighbour will take your delivery in your absence.

    If you want the parcel left leave a signed note saying where you want it left with a signature and the driver can take that away as your signature and leave the parcel as instructed.

    I deliver between 50-110 stops per day and if people would do the above it would make things so much easier.

    And also before I go it's busy this time of year and sometimes staff sickness or poor quality agency staff prevent us from being able to deliver first time but we want you to get your parcel as much as you want it!!
    Originally posted by audirob
    Good tips - we'll add them in!
    Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
    Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.

    Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.

    Debt-Free Wannabee Official Nerd Club: (Honorary) Members number 000
  • roguetrooper72
    I work for Asda home shopping and when we are late we normally ring the customer to let them know and if more convenient we rearrange the delivery, most of the time the customers are alright about it if you ring them in plenty of time, the ones that aren't we tend to refund the delivery charge, or if they are really irate then we tell them to ring the free phone number to complain and the call centre refunds delivery charge and sometimes give a voucher code for free delivery off next order.

    But on the flip side as a driver many a time I have turned up at customers houses with in the agreed time slot and had to wait for them to get home from dropping kids off at school, why order for a time when you won't be in for the whole 2 hours? We also get the odd customer that leaves a note saying had to go out leave in garage or other location, our company policy is not to leave goods as they could be stolen, I have on occasion done this for regular customers but left a message on their answerphone and a note through the door, as well as taking a picture on my mobile to prove in case it comes back to bite me on the bum! I also notice that some customers don't put addresses down right or live in a funny location which is hard to find and don't put any additional notes in the delivery instructions, then when you phone to ask they say everyone phones to ask where they are!! Well a lot of delivery drivers work to tight schedules, Asda has a system that says when we leave store, what time to get to the customers door, how long to spend at the door. Now if we can't find the address then it puts us behind and the time frame we work on doesn't allow for busy roads, delays or anything like that so it gets frustrating. My favourite is the customers that that have a doorbell that doesn't work, so you stand ringing the doorbell and it doesn't work so you wait 5 mins then knock on the door they don't hear that so you phone up and they answer and then tell you doorbell doesn't work, well take the bloody thing off the wall then or fix it or make a note to say it doesn't work!! Rant over

    Now back to my own experiences of dodgy deliveries, we used to use Littlewoods catalogue company a lot and we had one order delivered when we were out as there was no date given for delivery, the note through the door stated left behind the wood in back garden, well we went out into garden and searched all over couldn't find it, wife phoned up and they said they would just refund the item instead. 4 months later we were cleaning out the old outhouse/coal shed and found it hanging on the back of the door!! Also the other month royal mail just left a parcel on our doorstep, luckily we spotted it before anyone else did as we live in a dodgy council estate where anything not bolted down gets stolen. We also had some cast iron gates delivered and costing a lot of money and the courier left them down a neighbours alleyway between their house and another neighbours house, which then got stolen, but lucky for us the company refunded the cost.
    • stokegal
    • By stokegal 7th Dec 11, 8:38 PM
    • 850 Posts
    • 1,321 Thanks
    stokegal
    Martin

    I am a long term member of this forum and a great admirer of your previous campaigns but I have to say that I am deeply disappointed by your active promotion of a "compensation culture"
    I think you really should have thought more about this and the consequences before someone of your stature began to advise the general public how to bleed the retailers dry!
    I work for a large retailer who offers a home delivery service and I see the daily struggle we have with low profits and ways they they try to reduce margins, redudundances, removing overtime for people who have previously relied on it as part of their wage, increase in prices just to try and stay afloat...
    And now you begin to advise of how to really claim money for "inconviance", I dread to think how a small business owner will feel after reading your article, times are tough for retailers or have you already forgot about Woolworths, Zavvi and other unfortunate high street retailers and you are actively promoting this.
    Most of these delivery issues are for genuine reasons - 3rd party couriers, customer fault themselves, one off system errors - no retailer intentionally try and upset their customers and there is already costs for them for failed deliveries And now you just want to add to these costs!

    Shame on you Martin!!!!

    I'll probably posting on the redundancy forums in 6 months - thanks again!! Really wish you thought more about this one.

  • bonnylol
    Martin

    I am a long term member of this forum and a great admirer of your previous campaigns but I have to say that I am deeply disappointed by your active promotion of a "compensation culture"
    I think you really should have thought more about this and the consequences before someone of your stature began to advise the general public how to bleed the retailers dry!
    I work for a large retailer who offers a home delivery service and I see the daily struggle we have with low profits and ways they they try to reduce margins, redudundances, removing overtime for people who have previously relied on it as part of their wage, increase in prices just to try and stay afloat...
    And now you begin to advise of how to really claim money for "inconviance", I dread to think how a small business owner will feel after reading your article, times are tough for retailers or have you already forgot about Woolworths, Zavvi and other unfortunate high street retailers and you are actively promoting this.
    Most of these delivery issues are for genuine reasons - 3rd party couriers, customer fault themselves, one off system errors - no retailer intentionally try and upset their customers and there is already costs for them for failed deliveries And now you just want to add to these costs!

    Shame on you Martin!!!!

    I'll probably posting on the redundancy forums in 6 months - thanks again!! Really wish you thought more about this one.
    Originally posted by stokegal
    ould

    Could not agree more! Well said! Too many companies going bust without all this compensation culture!
  • bonnylol
    Seems a familer story... I had city link on saturday dump my marks and spencer parcel next to my door step (very busy main road) and put an unfilled card through my door not telling me anything! Of course no parcel when I returned home, but the worst thing is my parcel was a case of alochol! Of course m&s refunded it, as they were now out of stock, but im very annoyed as i had taken advantage of a very good offer and am now stuck looking for replacements!
    Originally posted by cherylelizabeth1
    How do you know the missing parcel was dumped next to your doorstep if the card was 'unfilled'?
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 7th Dec 11, 9:47 PM
    • 13,679 Posts
    • 8,656 Thanks
    arcon5
    Most companies provide a estimated delivery date and don't guarantee delivery on or by certain dates -- even when you pay for a 24hr service. This is because they have no control over this and it's unfair to expect a retailer to payout compensation for the couriers mistake.

    As far as this article is concerned, what a ridiculous piece! Encouraging consumers to claim compensation in these situations is unbelievable!!

    Shame on you!
    Last edited by arcon5; 07-12-2011 at 9:50 PM.
  • LowFlyingCourier
    How do you know the missing parcel was dumped next to your doorstep if the card was 'unfilled'?
    Originally posted by bonnylol
    Very true! As a driver myself I also find it quite irritating when customers say that a driver has left a card without knocking! No driver will go through the process of leaving a card if they can get deliver the parcel instead!
    • bod1467
    • By bod1467 7th Dec 11, 10:12 PM
    • 14,794 Posts
    • 13,463 Thanks
    bod1467
    No driver will go through the process of leaving a card if they can get deliver the parcel instead!
    Originally posted by LowFlyingCourier
    Really? You're absolutely sure of this? So all the people who post about getting a card (and sometimes even seeing the courier drive away) when they've been at home are lying?
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 7th Dec 11, 10:31 PM
    • 13,679 Posts
    • 8,656 Thanks
    arcon5
    Really? You're absolutely sure of this? So all the people who post about getting a card (and sometimes even seeing the courier drive away) when they've been at home are lying?
    Originally posted by bod1467
    If its a maintstream courier - probably. It doesn't really make much sense does it ? when they have to go back with the parcel another day.

    If though it was RM i'd believe it, as if their over-stretched it is easier to post a card to a batch of address' and not have to carry about the batch of parcels in their sacks ect
  • sanity_
    I sell by mail order.

    I never cease to be amazed by the sheer unwillingness of customers to believe what is served up in black and white when an order is placed. ie:

    Someone needs to be in to sign for the parcel.

    Parcel will not be 'left safe'.

    We can deliver to an alternative address such as an office address.

    We need a working contact telephone number to pass on to the courier.

    Under normal circumstances, next day delivery will indeed arrive next day. However, adverse weather, mechanical breakdown, sickness etc can affect delivery times. Delivery times are not guaranteed. (RM Special Delivery is the only exception, and the guarantee extends to refund of shipping cost only).

    Orders placed after 2.00pm will be despatched the following day (that means orders booked on a next day courier service at 9.00pm won't actually leave our premises until the following day).

    We do not despatch orders on Saturdays or Sundays.

    Our delivery terms and order deadlines are plastered all over the website. The very last thing a customer does before placing an order is acknowledge our cut-off time and delivery schedule. Customers can track their parcels online and see that the item's on the van out for delivery.

    Still I get phone calls and emails.........

    "I only went out for half an hour"

    "I ordered guaranteed next day"

    "It let me book a next day courier at 11 o'clock at night therefore I assumed the cut-off time was invalid"

    "Yes, that is my house in the photograph but the courier didn't drive down my street because I was upstairs"

    I even had one customer place an order on a Wednesday evening, pay 26.00 for a Saturday delivery, then 'assume' it would arrive on the Thursday because I would be grateful for the extra money.

    "I am desperate for this item, but it is not my responsibility to collect it from the delivery office, I want a refund" (the delivery office in question was located precisely 600 yards from this person's front door).

    I agree that the customer needs to be protected from rogue traders.

    I need to be protected from rogue customers though.

    Sorry to say that hell would freeze over before I compensated a customer who wanted to rewrite the Ts and Cs to suit them after they agreed to them the day before. If that's the way things are set to go I think I'd rather pack it in.
    • tomwakefield
    • By tomwakefield 7th Dec 11, 11:17 PM
    • 7,210 Posts
    • 9,572 Thanks
    tomwakefield
    I sell by mail order.

    I never cease to be amazed by the sheer unwillingness of customers to believe what is served up in black and white when an order is placed. ie:

    Someone needs to be in to sign for the parcel.
    Originally posted by sanity_
    The problem with that is that it's not always possible to know when a parcel will arrive. Some of Amazon's supersaver deliveries are done by courier, and the first I know of a delivery attempt is a "sorry you were out" card. Even if I did check online to see "ah, parcel out for delivery today, must mean it'll arrive today" I couldn't get time of work with no prior notice to my manager.

    "It let me book a next day courier at 11 o'clock at night therefore I assumed the cut-off time was invalid"
    Originally posted by sanity_
    You should fix that flaw with your site. If you allow things to be selected, people will select them, regardless of what your terms say.

    Sorry to say that hell would freeze over before I compensated a customer who wanted to rewrite the Ts and Cs to suit them after they agreed to them the day before.
    Originally posted by sanity_
    Make sure your Ts and Cs are bulletproof then, as far as the law is concerned.
    Competition wins: Where's Wally Goody Bag, Club badge branded football, Nivea for Men Goody Bag
  • sanity_
    The problem with that is that it's not always possible to know when a parcel will arrive. Some of Amazon's supersaver deliveries are done by courier, and the first I know of a delivery attempt is a "sorry you were out" card. Even if I did check online to see "ah, parcel out for delivery today, must mean it'll arrive today" I couldn't get time of work with no prior notice to my manager.
    Originally posted by tomwakefield
    Then don't get the package sent to your home. Send it to an office address.

    You should fix that flaw with your site. If you allow things to be selected, people will select them, regardless of what your terms say.
    Originally posted by tomwakefield
    It's not a flaw, it's common sense.
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