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  • FIRST POST
    • Former MSE Helen
    • By Former MSE Helen 17th Dec 12, 9:58 AM
    • 2,324Posts
    • 971Thanks
    Former MSE Helen
    MSE News: Energy bills to rise to pay for grid upgrades
    • #1
    • 17th Dec 12, 9:58 AM
    MSE News: Energy bills to rise to pay for grid upgrades 17th Dec 12 at 9:58 AM
    "Projects to improve gas and electricity networks will add an average 12 a year over the next eight years, says Ofgem..."

Page 1
    • Butterfly Brain
    • By Butterfly Brain 17th Dec 12, 10:31 AM
    • 8,736 Posts
    • 61,001 Thanks
    Butterfly Brain
    • #2
    • 17th Dec 12, 10:31 AM
    • #2
    • 17th Dec 12, 10:31 AM
    So the customer has to pay for a private company AGAIN. I am sick of being screwed by these multinationals and have already planned to have a wood burning stove with back boiler in, so that is the gas sorted. Now I will have to save for a wind turbine and solar panels.
    Blessed are the cracked for they are the ones that let in the light
    C.R.A.P R.O.L.L.Z. Member #35 Butterfly Brain + OH - Foraging Fixers
    Not Buying it 2015!
  • peeteepee
    • #3
    • 17th Dec 12, 10:51 AM
    • #3
    • 17th Dec 12, 10:51 AM
    It won't really be 'sorted', as you'll still need to pay a standing charge for the priviledge of having a gas pipe connected to your home. Even if you use no gas, you'll still have to pay the gas supplier.
    • Ken68
    • By Ken68 17th Dec 12, 11:35 AM
    • 6,522 Posts
    • 4,159 Thanks
    Ken68
    • #4
    • 17th Dec 12, 11:35 AM
    • #4
    • 17th Dec 12, 11:35 AM
    Time to open up the fireplace I think. And burn all this wood I've been collecting.
    Will put up some ex storage heater bricks, to stand a pot on. Cook dinner and heat water. (Think witches, bubbling cauldron,frogs etc)
    Will still have the gas central heating, but gas usage should reduce, and if with Ebico (and others) No Standing Charge.
    • jeepjunkie
    • By jeepjunkie 17th Dec 12, 11:46 AM
    • 1,643 Posts
    • 1,462 Thanks
    jeepjunkie
    • #5
    • 17th Dec 12, 11:46 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Dec 12, 11:46 AM
    Time to open up the fireplace I think. And burn all this wood I've been collecting.
    Will put up some ex storage heater bricks, to stand a pot on. Cook dinner and heat water. (Think witches, bubbling cauldron,frogs etc)
    Will still have the gas central heating, but gas usage should reduce, and if with Ebico (and others) No Standing Charge.
    Originally posted by Ken68
    There may be NSC but their prices are sky high. Only any real benefit if you use !!!!!! all.
    • smala01
    • By smala01 17th Dec 12, 12:08 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    smala01
    • #6
    • 17th Dec 12, 12:08 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Dec 12, 12:08 PM
    So the customer has to pay for a private company AGAIN. I am sick of being screwed by these multinationals and have already planned to have a wood burning stove with back boiler in, so that is the gas sorted. Now I will have to save for a wind turbine and solar panels.
    Originally posted by Butterfly Brain

    But that's how investment is alway's done in private companies??

    Call center staff, billings systems, vans fines are all added into the bill.

    I have just come back from the US, and they regularly have blackouts because of the outdated grid network. I would imagine we would be the first to complain if that was to happen here.

    People just have to face the fact that energy is getting more expensive because demand is greater (China / India etc).

    I ran some numbers on an average energy bill of 1200 - energy companies make 5% profit (approx 60 per year).

    The government has done a good job vilifying the private companies as greedy - but the real cause is globalisation. If you remove any concept of profit we would still be having the same conversation.

    Smala01
    Last edited by smala01; 18-12-2012 at 3:20 AM. Reason: typo
    • smala01
    • By smala01 17th Dec 12, 12:09 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    smala01
    • #7
    • 17th Dec 12, 12:09 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Dec 12, 12:09 PM
    It won't really be 'sorted', as you'll still need to pay a standing charge for the priviledge of having a gas pipe connected to your home. Even if you use no gas, you'll still have to pay the gas supplier.
    Originally posted by peeteepee
    No you don't. Just get a tariff with no standing charge...
    • VT82
    • By VT82 17th Dec 12, 12:17 PM
    • 1,050 Posts
    • 890 Thanks
    VT82
    • #8
    • 17th Dec 12, 12:17 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Dec 12, 12:17 PM
    So the customer has to pay for a private company AGAIN. I am sick of being screwed by these multinationals and have already planned to have a wood burning stove with back boiler in, so that is the gas sorted. Now I will have to save for a wind turbine and solar panels.
    Originally posted by Butterfly Brain
    Someone has to pay for it! The choices are either make energy customers pay for it, or make taxpayers pay for it. Of those, it seems fairer to make the people who actually use it pay for it - at least then you can opt out as you suggest you want to.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 17th Dec 12, 12:23 PM
    • 27,962 Posts
    • 13,825 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #9
    • 17th Dec 12, 12:23 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Dec 12, 12:23 PM
    Bu

    I ran some numbers on an average energy bill of 1200 - energy companies make 0.05% profit (approx 60 per year).
    Originally posted by smala01
    Agree with the 1,200 and 60 but not the 0.05%
    • Bark01
    • By Bark01 17th Dec 12, 12:41 PM
    • 803 Posts
    • 263 Thanks
    Bark01
    It won't really be 'sorted', as you'll still need to pay a standing charge for the priviledge of having a gas pipe connected to your home. Even if you use no gas, you'll still have to pay the gas supplier.
    Originally posted by peeteepee
    If you don't use gas get the meter capped then you won't have to pay for it.
    • LesU
    • By LesU 17th Dec 12, 2:05 PM
    • 338 Posts
    • 163 Thanks
    LesU
    How much of this 'upgrade' is to pay for additions to the existing grid to link in all of the wind turbine power?
    This is spread all over the country and the sea, in places where there is no existing infrastructure. Of course, if the refurbishments and additions are added together, nobody will find out the true cost of wind turbines, or the real CO2 footprint when all that extra cabling, metal pylons and concrete are taken into account.
  • Road_Hog
    Someone has to pay for it! The choices are either make energy customers pay for it, or make taxpayers pay for it. Of those, it seems fairer to make the people who actually use it pay for it - at least then you can opt out as you suggest you want to.
    Originally posted by VT82
    You're wrong, you pay for it as a customer and you pay for it as a taxpayer, through government subsidies.

    Everyone is being ripped off by the great green con.

    Ask yourself this, should the two most senior people in the government's green energy dept. have any financial interests in green energy? Because they do, both John Gummer and Tim Yeo are the green energy guys and both have financial stakes in the green energy business. SamCam's dad, Dave's father in law also has a stake in the green energy industry.

    Think about that next time your bills go up and when they say it's the wholesale cost of gas, go and Google it and see that wholesale prices are less now than they were in 2008. I bet your bill has come down though.
    • Arthurian
    • By Arthurian 17th Dec 12, 2:23 PM
    • 678 Posts
    • 630 Thanks
    Arthurian
    How much of this 'upgrade' is to pay for additions to the existing grid to link in all of the wind turbine power?
    This is spread all over the country and the sea, in places where there is no existing infrastructure. Of course, if the refurbishments and additions are added together, nobody will find out the true cost of wind turbines, or the real CO2 footprint when all that extra cabling, metal pylons and concrete are taken into account.
    Originally posted by LesU
    Spot on. I expect most of this is for connecting up wind turbines.
    • JC_Derby
    • By JC_Derby 17th Dec 12, 4:04 PM
    • 675 Posts
    • 235 Thanks
    JC_Derby
    How much of this 'upgrade' is to pay for additions to the existing grid to link in all of the wind turbine power?
    This is spread all over the country and the sea, in places where there is no existing infrastructure. Of course, if the refurbishments and additions are added together, nobody will find out the true cost of wind turbines, or the real CO2 footprint when all that extra cabling, metal pylons and concrete are taken into account.
    Originally posted by LesU
    Most of these are connected by local DNO'S not national grid.
  • Horseunderwater
    Just because you are on a tariff with no standing charge does not mean there is not one included. Nothing is free in this life and never will be!
    Having rung my supplier last week about being on a PPM that has Ec 7 on it, she told me it would be cheaper for me to go to single rate meter. Then she worked it all out and guess what - it was 81 more expensive and that was with no standing charge! I am actually better off with ec 7 on a PPM with a standing charge. She and I thought it was funny. Something not right somewhere is it?
    • zerog
    • By zerog 17th Dec 12, 9:19 PM
    • 2,429 Posts
    • 852 Thanks
    zerog
    Just because you are on a tariff with no standing charge does not mean there is not one included. Nothing is free in this life and never will be!
    Having rung my supplier last week about being on a PPM that has Ec 7 on it, she told me it would be cheaper for me to go to single rate meter. Then she worked it all out and guess what - it was 81 more expensive and that was with no standing charge! I am actually better off with ec 7 on a PPM with a standing charge. She and I thought it was funny. Something not right somewhere is it?
    Originally posted by Horseunderwater
    We are talking about burning firewood instead of gas to reduce gas usage to a level where no standing charge tarriffs are cheaper.
    • LesU
    • By LesU 17th Dec 12, 10:18 PM
    • 338 Posts
    • 163 Thanks
    LesU
    Most of these are connected by local DNO'S not national grid.
    Originally posted by JC_Derby
    From the BBC:-
    'The planned investment spending across the UK is split between 15.5bn on electricity transmission and distribution, and 8.7bn on gas.
    The investments will, among other things, hook up new wind farms and nuclear power stations to the electricity grid to replace traditional coal-fired power stations, and enable more liquefied natural gas imported from Qatar and elsewhere to be added to the gas network as North Sea gas supplies dwindle.
    Other improvements will include the running of new and some existing high voltage cables underground, particularly where they affect areas of outstanding natural beauty, and the construction of a new undersea link connecting Scotland with England and Wales.'

    Well, if it's National Grid or Distribution Network Operators, it all boils down to the same thing. The money is coming from us to build the infrastructure for wind and nuclear. Nuclear isn't such a big deal for distribution networks because the proposed new installations are on the site of the old ones.
    • chris1973
    • By chris1973 17th Dec 12, 10:32 PM
    • 839 Posts
    • 814 Thanks
    chris1973
    May as well be 1200, nobody is actually going to DO anything about it, they know it and its an open invitation to push yet another rise through.
    "Dont expect anybody else to support you, maybe you have a trust fund, maybe you have a wealthy spouse, but you never know when each one, might run out" - Mary Schmich
    • chris-j
    • By chris-j 18th Dec 12, 12:16 AM
    • 336 Posts
    • 170 Thanks
    chris-j
    As with most things people are overcharged for, we will not see this number get lower (even if wholesale prices collapsed). Personally I would like to see an effective breakdown on my bill telling me how much is for transmission, how much for distribution, how much for profit, how much for wholesale cost, now much for vat, how much for crazy green stuff, etc.
    At present seems neither companies, ofgem or govt are willing to be honest because they all lie about some aspect.
  • Road_Hog


    Feel free to see how much wholesale gas prices haven't risen, nor electricity.



    Your price increases and green taxes are not saving the planet, they are lining the pockets of politicians and elites.

    http://www.thecommentator.com/article/1642/yeogate_2_more_evidence_of_big_green_cronyism_in_t ory_led_government

    http://order-order.com/2012/09/12/tim-yeo-made-10000-from-green-interests-in-july-alone-336-an-hour-conflict-of-interest-for-select-committee-chair/

    That's just two of many that decide our green policies and line their pockets.

    Cameron's FiL makes a few quid from it as well.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038898/Samantha-Camerons-father-plans-wind-turbines-Britains-glorious-landscapes--YOU-helping-pay-it.html
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