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  • FIRST POST
    • orangesnaps
    • By orangesnaps 15th Nov 18, 4:40 PM
    • 57Posts
    • 25Thanks
    orangesnaps
    Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes
    • #1
    • 15th Nov 18, 4:40 PM
    Outfox The Market Direct Debit changes 15th Nov 18 at 4:40 PM
    We switched from Eon to OTM on late May of this year. Our monthly debit is £100.21, we are currently £370+ in credit. Our monthly bill is £50-70 & that's with the meter reading (no estimates). I've just got an email that they are hiking our DD to £140.29 without any way to decline it. I don't agree with it. Once the bill for this month comes which will be about the same usage from last month, we will be in credit for £400+. How much more do they want?

    We can't switch without avoiding the exit fee as we are in a fixed tariff with them.
    From our experience with Eon, they gave the customer the option to lower the direct debit to a certain point.
    Last edited by orangesnaps; 15-11-2018 at 5:19 PM.
Page 3
    • elonii
    • By elonii 15th Nov 18, 8:44 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    elonii
    I’ve had an email this morning saying my Direct Debit payment was going up from £91 to £129. Their own estimates of my usage is an average of £75 a month over the whole year. I've used £65 a month since June and have a £240 credit balance.

    I'm also on the low tariff deal that can't be increased till next October.
    I called to say the £129 figure was wholly disproportionate and asked them to reduce it. They refused to do this as it would be "too much work" for accounts. I managed to compel the call centre chap to explain my situation to accounts and he said it wasn't possible and that the DD was coming out this month.

    I was assured a further mail with a more accurate calculation based on my actual usage would turn up. I’ve just found the one sent at 3.30 today - they’ve INCREASED it to £189.

    I'm cancelling my DD tomorrow and switching to Bulb. They apparently offer to pay any exit fees. I'm not going to sit and let them take whatever they like out of my bank account.
    • orangesnaps
    • By orangesnaps 15th Nov 18, 8:46 PM
    • 57 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    orangesnaps
    The current tariff that we're on with OTM is Whack! Tariff, it's the cheapest by far but with the uncertainty of the company's stability. This is looking more and more like a cash grab to me, I would rather go with a reputable company. Our priority is getting our money back that's in credit, we currently have £370 in credit, minus the bill for oct-nov. usage, that will still leave us at more or less £300 in credit factor in the direct debit increase as I think the bank will take it, that will be £440 in credit by the first week of Dec.
    An additional £40 a month is quite a lot for us & we can't just afford to pay that. We already built a healthy credit in our account with them so I don't understand where they've got their figures from.
    Also, we've only just switched to them this May, how can they track that? It's very dodgy.

    Currently looking at Bulb, People's Energy and Green Network Energy.
    Last edited by orangesnaps; 15-11-2018 at 8:48 PM.
    • dazzh
    • By dazzh 15th Nov 18, 8:54 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    dazzh
    My winter payment has been calculated by OFTM as £130, I usually pay £93.
    I'm £272 in credit so I'm going to cancel my DD, for a couple of months, use up my credit and then reinstate the DD.
    I've already emailed asking for a refund but didn't receive any reply.
    • markharding557
    • By markharding557 15th Nov 18, 8:56 PM
    • 2,893 Posts
    • 3,209 Thanks
    markharding557
    My proposed direct debit increase was from £84pm to 164pm over winter, not acceptable!
    I would never switch to a supplier who operate variable DD's and this was not agreed when I recently signed up.
    Direct debit has been cancelled and a switch to Avro has been initiated and it is fixed for a year and not costing much more overall.
    • DonalK
    • By DonalK 15th Nov 18, 9:01 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    DonalK
    Same here
    Hello all,

    Same experience here - calculations donít make sense, Iím in ample credit and I too sense a cash run.

    , Iíve emailed them about 5pm and popped Ofgem, Ombudsman and the news team from this website on copy. Included the 5 emails Iíve had in 3 days and asked why new Ďwinter rateí is three times my current usage...

    Heartened to know others took to this forum and I know Iím not alone or overreacting!

    Iíll share what I hear back from any party emailed.

    Cheers,
    Donal
    • thriftytracey
    • By thriftytracey 15th Nov 18, 9:12 PM
    • 114 Posts
    • 110 Thanks
    thriftytracey
    First I get another price hike email then an email asking for a photograph of the electricity meter (we provide readings every month and are in credit £60). I send the photographs of my smart meter. I then get an email today to say that there were no attachments in the email - there were and they were compressed JPEGs. I have replied using snips of the photos. I then get the same email as everyone else an increase of 20%.


    They are still the cheapest though. I don't know what to do and whether to cancel my DD as others are doing. Ii would rather just pay the bill each month using my debit card.
    • Mister.C
    • By Mister.C 15th Nov 18, 9:14 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Mister.C
    Outfox tried to Outfox me
    I joined in August, after inputting my annual usage, I got quoted an £8.99 monthly fee / standing charge. This then was raised to £13 then to £15.99 together with 2 lots of energy price rises in the space of 3 months, I also asked when they sell energy at wholesale prices, why are there companies selling gas over 1p per kWh cheaper, you canít get a straight answer from them. They say they only supply green energy but how can the cost of wind & sun increase twice in 3 months.
    Their customer service is shockingly poor and the substantial rise in direct debit is the final straw. Iím voting with my finger and switching.
    STAY AWAY FROM OUTFOX, THEY ARE A REAL PILE OF POO to put it politely.
    • lynchnigel
    • By lynchnigel 15th Nov 18, 9:18 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    lynchnigel
    Likewise had the first email of the energy increase earlier in the month followed by the we have cocked up the previous email this is the rate - then today the rocket of the DD price change in 10 days time !! I dont think so when im in credit ! It seems theres no talking to these like some companies you get bullied into accepting their terms or on your bike! well for me I've had enough and will be joining everyone else leaving the sinking ship unless they back pedal.
    • yobroy67
    • By yobroy67 15th Nov 18, 9:30 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    yobroy67
    On 2/11 I was advised my estimated annual consumption figure is around £41.73 on average per month whereas my actual consumption is showing £37.71 per month. However, please note that your actual consumption does not reflect a full winter since you have been supplied by us. We use this figure as a guideline on what would be an appropriate value for your direct debit to ensure that it is covering your usage. Therefore, your current direct debit of £53.09 is appropriate for your current usage. This means that at this figure of direct debit, you should be building credit during the summer months which will be used during the winter whilst keeping your direct debit at £53.09 throughout the year as long as your estimated annual consumption does not significantly change. I am currently £93 in credit and today they told me they are increasing my DD to £73 from October to March. Does not make any sense at all and now in its November I am worried they will take the £73 plus an additional £20 for the difference in the previous DD. I've had some refunds already but not after a fight. After reading other comments I am switching as they are taking the mickey.
    • Neil Jones
    • By Neil Jones 15th Nov 18, 10:43 PM
    • 1,624 Posts
    • 1,024 Thanks
    Neil Jones
    Current Debit: £51.66, am currently in £80 credit.
    Proposed: £90.41 winter, £38.75 summer. If I divide their estimated annual cost by 12 it only works out to £64.57 anyway.

    With the revised energy rates they're not the cheapest any more for me and this revised debit does sound like a run on the customer so to speak so sod it I'm going back to Zog and Scottish Power - it isn't the cheapest option but Zog were excellent last time I was with them and Scottish Power is best of the rest I suppose.

    Sadly I feel the trend price wise is upwards and if that's the case I'd rather pay a fix now for a year or so and see where things go.
    • Milie
    • By Milie 15th Nov 18, 10:55 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Milie
    Very foxy
    I spent a lot of time last week trying by email to retrieve £90 of my money that they had decided to keep even though I didnít owe it. Their email Is poorly written but gives the patronising impression that they believe they are better at managing my money than I am. They refused to return the £90 but reduced my DD slightly. Then I had the same series of messages, including corrections, that everyone else has reported, culminating in the one today. ďBill shockĒ .... yes it was! They propose practically doubling my DD until April.
    Iím not having it. Iíve started a switch to a fixed term deal and cancelled my DD with them. Iím sure the £90 will cover my final payment, perhaps even with a little bit left over to keep me in my declining years.
    • RichGit
    • By RichGit 15th Nov 18, 10:56 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    RichGit
    In the same situation BUT I received two emails from them in two days. The first gave my annual bill calculation as £936.78 and the next email stated the figure £717.96 !!!!
    I will go to OFGEM to state my complaint regarding the change to direct debit as I signed up for the 2 year fixed rate, paying an even monthly sum across the year. Yes I am in credit just as most of all folks posting here. I do not think this can be allowed by the regulator.
    I agree it looks like OFTM are having trouble with buying wholesale during the peak Winter months - this IS DEFINITELY an OFGEM job. I hope you all bring it to their attention too.
    • Milie
    • By Milie 15th Nov 18, 11:10 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Milie
    And also, in the last twelve comments, £1422 worth of credit is quoted. That’s just between six customers. It makes you realise what a little goldmine the credit is to them. I know interest rates are low but what are they making out of money which is basically being stolen from us?
    • Milie
    • By Milie 15th Nov 18, 11:24 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Milie
    They’re working late tonight. I received this at 22.43. Begins:

    I would like to apologies that you have had to raise concerns with ourselves.

    I appreciate your concerns with regards to your account being in a credit balance and I will pass this to our Credit control team to review your direct debit.

    Although we appreciate that you may feel resistant at first as this is something new and innovative we must reassure you that you will certainly see positive benefits from paying this way to the usual way you’ve become used to. This new Direct Debit will keep your balance much steadier throughout the year and ensure that you do not have to request refunds of large amounts of credit but instead you are paying the relevant amounts based on when you are more of less user heavy.

    We will leave this complaint open for 7 days for you to inform us if you are unhappy with our response. After this time it will be closed as resolved.

    Kind Regards

    Joella Wormleighton

    Complaints Resolution Manager

    Ends.

    I think it defies all logic. However, my time on this earth is valuable to me and I shall not reply.
    • markharding557
    • By markharding557 16th Nov 18, 6:49 AM
    • 2,893 Posts
    • 3,209 Thanks
    markharding557
    Judging by the posts on this thread, they are loosing customers aplenty.
    I think their time is numbered.
    • hubb
    • By hubb 16th Nov 18, 7:20 AM
    • 1,945 Posts
    • 368 Thanks
    hubb
    I really don’t know what to do for the best. Wait it out and see if they change their minds due to the mass outrage or switch to a higher, fixed rate with a reputable company before they start taking money I might not get back ?

    And why hasn’t the energy club updated the status of OFTM in the comparison to warn potential new customers of their practace ?
    Last edited by hubb; 16-11-2018 at 7:27 AM.
    • Merlin139
    • By Merlin139 16th Nov 18, 7:30 AM
    • 5,424 Posts
    • 20,878 Thanks
    Merlin139
    Judging by the posts on this thread, they are loosing customers aplenty.
    I think their time is numbered.
    Originally posted by markharding557
    Check out the Facebook page:

    https://www.facebook.com/Outfoxthemarket/

    I had my 2nd reply from Joella Wormleighton at 00:23 last night. Judging by the content of the reply she actually read the E-mail.

    I am on a fixed Tariff and from a we chat yesterday I have it in black and white that I can leave without any exit fees.

    Don't forget lines open at 08:30 this morning so get on the phones and webchat as soon as the lines are open.
    3.975 kWp PV SolarEdge System South Facing 10% Shading Installed 21 May 2014 Located in Mid East Yorkshire.
    • Merlin139
    • By Merlin139 16th Nov 18, 7:32 AM
    • 5,424 Posts
    • 20,878 Thanks
    Merlin139
    I really donít know what to do for the best. Wait it out and see if they change their minds due to the mass outrage or switch to a higher, fixed rate with a reputable company before they start taking money I might not get back ?

    And why hasnít the energy club updated the status of OFTM in the comparison to warn potential new customers of their practace ?
    Originally posted by hubb
    Any credit balance is protected by the OFGEM safety net.

    https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/extra-help-energy-services/ofgem-safety-net-if-your-energy-supplier-goes-out-business
    3.975 kWp PV SolarEdge System South Facing 10% Shading Installed 21 May 2014 Located in Mid East Yorkshire.
    • DonalK
    • By DonalK 16th Nov 18, 7:48 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    DonalK
    Same as Millie
    Morning,

    I had a reply from Joella too at 6:22am (long night for someone) - same content as Millie but without the paragraph that begins with Although.

    Sounds like we're being triaged now - those that will leave, those that demand refunds, those that resign themselves to their lot etc etc. ... perhaps it's better to have fewer customers with higher profits and better cash flow ... undoing the curse of success etc.

    I've replied it's insufficient a response - I've also pushed that email to the same email addresses I used for Ofgem, Ombudsman and MSE. When those folks begin their day I hope there'll be some questions asked ... either way I'm making my plans ... no one is taking me for a ride.
    • babe-ruth
    • By babe-ruth 16th Nov 18, 7:49 AM
    • 156 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    babe-ruth
    My reply from OTM to my moan about the DD increase -

    "Thank you for your email. Although we appreciate that you may feel resistant at first as this is something new and innovative we must reassure you that you will certainly see positive benefits from paying this way to the usual way you've become used to. This new Direct Debit will keep your balance much steadier throughout the year and ensure that you do not have to request refunds of large amounts of credit but instead you are paying the relevant amounts based on when you are more of less user heavy"

    I wouldn't mind if I was a heavy user in winter but it's mostly the same (I'm on electric only) throughout the year as I have LPG for heating and hot water
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