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  • FIRST POST
    mjsingh
    Infrared heating panel is no good
    • #1
    • 28th Nov 14, 11:56 AM
    Infrared heating panel is no good 28th Nov 14 at 11:56 AM
    I looked for some real experiences of infrared heating. This is the best place to be.

    I bought a FAR infrared heating panel to try out. Has someone else had experience of them? It is advertised to say the best available but I am 100% dissatisfied.

    The infrared panel is not living up to the promise. May I be entitled to a refund? The company say no because I had it for 2 weeks.

    It does not warm enough. If I stood close it is ok but further than 1-2 meter then there is no heat and the room is cold.

    The company said I must attach the infrared panel up high on the wall. This is not good because it is not nice looking for my room. It will look terrible! I don't really believe that will make more heat. They said I must then have two more panels. The room is 4 meters x 3.5 meters.

    I don't believe it is costing less money than the electric heaters and when I must have two more panels it will be costing much much more money.

    I don't use the infrared panel now. Should I lawfully have a refund?
Page 1
    • thenudeone
    • By thenudeone 28th Nov 14, 4:39 PM
    • 4,402 Posts
    • 1,909 Thanks
    thenudeone
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 14, 4:39 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 14, 4:39 PM
    It depends what you were promised IN WRITING by the supplier regarding whether it was suitable for heating the room. Unless you recorded what a salesman said, it would be very difficult to use a verbal promise as the basis of a case. Were you told that 1 heater would be enough to heat the reoom to a certain temperature in x hours when the outside temperature was xxC? Even without such a detailed promise, goods must still be "fit for the purpose described" but proving what was described will be very difficult. The company may claim that it was dwescribed as top-up heating only.

    An infrared heater has exactly the same efficiency as the cheapest electric convector heater, i.e. 100% of the electricty you pay for is turned into heat.

    Most of the heat is given out as radiant heat rather than conductive heat, which could give some savings because you shoudl feel the benefit of the warmth on your skin without the heater having to heat up all the air inbetween you and the heater (like a "normal" heater). There have been many threads discussing the merist (or otherwise) of infra-red heating.

    My guess is that the company will have been clever enough not to make any enforceable promises in writing, so you may have to put this down to experience.
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  • mjsingh
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 14, 11:55 AM
    • #3
    • 29th Nov 14, 11:55 AM
    Thank you

    Yes the company website is saying it is good for rooms 36 meters square. My room is small. FAR infrared heating panels are really not as good.

    I tested the infrared panel and it is taking 900 watts all of the day and the room is cold. My electric heater 1000 watts made less costs for heating and it is warmer. I am thankful for your advice of "fit for the purpose described".

    I say then that the company must provide a refund. I made a review of the problem the review is taken from the website!
    • muckybutt
    • By muckybutt 29th Nov 14, 4:25 PM
    • 3,618 Posts
    • 3,419 Thanks
    muckybutt
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 14, 4:25 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Nov 14, 4:25 PM
    I think you may have misread the blurb on their website. It does state "The key difference with Far Infrared Heating is that is heats solid objects like the walls of a room and furniture, which then radiate back and raise the air temperature to a comfortable level. Infrared does not heat the air like most other types of heater. So you're no longer heating VOLUME of air (which retains heat poorly). Instead you're heating SURFACE-AREA of materials (which retain heat well)."
    Infra red will heat you up nicely if you are stood underneath it for long enough, it won't however heat the air around you unlike a convector heater.

    If the heater is working correctly you will unfortunately not be entitled to a refund. If the claims they are making are false or exaggerated then you need to contact trading standards for them to test and investigate the claims.
    You may click thanks if you found my advice useful
  • mjsingh
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 14, 2:14 PM
    • #5
    • 30th Nov 14, 2:14 PM
    Thank you.

    Maybe but I am reading the website. It is stating that FAR infrared heating panels make heat for a 36 meter square room. My room is smaller.

    The website is stating in writing far less power cost than electric heaters. I tested the FAR infrared heating panel. It is taking 900 watts and it is not warm 1-2 meters of the heating panel. The regular heater now is taking maximum 750 watts and it is making all of the room warm.

    The company is not providing a refund. Maybe to be close to the FAR infrared heating panel is ok but this is not possible. The company say I must have more panels but the website is stating one infrared heating panel makes heat for 36 meter square room.

    1-2 meters close is ok but the room is cold. This is no good.
    • Swipe
    • By Swipe 30th Nov 14, 3:08 PM
    • 2,262 Posts
    • 1,192 Thanks
    Swipe
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 14, 3:08 PM
    • #6
    • 30th Nov 14, 3:08 PM
    I think these panels are more designed for a workshop-type environment where the air is cold due to bad insulation but provide warmth when standing sitting directly in front of them. If possible, it might be worth trying to mount it on the ceiling and have it radiate heat down on to you instead.
  • mjsingh
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 14, 4:01 PM
    • #7
    • 30th Nov 14, 4:01 PM
    Thank you!

    Yes I feel that is true. Why the company has sold it to me then? It is no good in my room. The website is stating that FAR infrared heating panels are good for heating in homes. I know now that this is NOT true. It is costing more for heating bills and it is no good for heating. Now I am using my regular heater again and the company will not refund.

    I am warning that these infrared heating panels are no good.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 30th Nov 14, 6:34 PM
    • 27,966 Posts
    • 13,829 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 14, 6:34 PM
    • #8
    • 30th Nov 14, 6:34 PM
    I tested the infrared panel and it is taking 900 watts all of the day and the room is cold. My electric heater 1000 watts made less costs for heating and it is warmer. I am thankful for your advice of "fit for the purpose described".
    Originally posted by mjsingh

    Your 900watt IR heater will produce exactly the same amount of heat as any other 900 watt electrical heater, and cost exactly the same to run.


    The only difference between electrical heaters is the way they deliver the heat.


    Your 1000watt(1kW) heater will produce 11% more heat than the IR heater; but cost 11% more to run.


    Like many companies, some of those manufacturing IR heaters imply that somehow you get more heat for the same cost; but you don't. However if you read their brochures they are careful not to say anything that is factually incorrect.
    • fishybusiness
    • By fishybusiness 30th Nov 14, 9:14 PM
    • 1,240 Posts
    • 797 Thanks
    fishybusiness
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 14, 9:14 PM
    • #9
    • 30th Nov 14, 9:14 PM
    Maybe but I am reading the website. It is stating that FAR infrared heating panels make heat for a 36 meter square room. My room is smaller.
    36m square will not be anywhere near warm with a 900w panel.

    From my own experience 900w will keep 16m square warm.

    Obviously there are many other factors to take in to account.

    A quick calc suggests you would need 2.2 kW + to keep you warm in a room that size with a 2.4m ceiling height.
    • richardc1983
    • By richardc1983 1st Dec 14, 5:29 AM
    • 1,981 Posts
    • 1,031 Thanks
    richardc1983
    The company said I must attach the infrared panel up high on the wall. This is not good because it is not nice looking for my room. It will look terrible! I don't really believe that will make more heat. They said I must then have two more panels. The room is 4 meters x 3.5 meters.
    Originally posted by mjsingh
    I dont think you researched this properly before buying which is what a lot of people make the mistake of doing. Radiant heat works the same way the sun does via infrared rays. On a cold day if the sun is shining on you, you can feel quite warm. However if the sun goes behind a building or behind the clouds then you can feel cold again as you dont feel that radiant heat.

    This heater works the same. The pictures of these heaters on their website which shows a lot of different installs shows the heater mounted quite high up on the wall. If you have chose to mount the heater low down at radiator height there are a lot of obstacles possibly in the way blocking the radiant heat. This heater heats objects and not the air, once these objects absorb the radiant heat they will then release the heat and warm the air.

    Infrared and radiant heat rays will bounce of smooth shiny surfaces anything else will block the path of the rays and will absorb the heat. So if you have for example a sofa in front of this heater all the radiant rays will be going into the heater. You have said it yourself they are good if you sit directly in front of it but not very good for space heating. You need other forms of heating to do increase the air temperature effectively. Radiant heat is good for garages or warehouses where you want to warm the people and not the room.
    If you found my post helpful, please remember to press the THANKS button! --->
    • richardc1983
    • By richardc1983 1st Dec 14, 5:30 AM
    • 1,981 Posts
    • 1,031 Thanks
    richardc1983
    I think these panels are more designed for a workshop-type environment where the air is cold due to bad insulation but provide warmth when standing sitting directly in front of them. If possible, it might be worth trying to mount it on the ceiling and have it radiate heat down on to you instead.
    Originally posted by Swipe
    Good idea, some of the installs on their website shows them mounted on the ceiling.
    If you found my post helpful, please remember to press the THANKS button! --->
  • mjsingh
    Thank you richardc1983!

    I did research. My room is smaller. This 900 watts infrared heating panel is stating in the website it is for maximum room 36 meter square. The infrared panel is with the stand on the floor.

    The website is stating the FAR infrared heating panels are making more heat with less cost. This infrared heating panel is taking 900 watts always and the room is not warm. I am very cold in that room. Now I am using 1000w regular electric heater and it is taking 750 watts the heat is ok.

    Cardew thank you this is true. "Like many companies, some of those manufacturing IR heaters imply that somehow you get more heat for the same cost; but you don't" This is true. This is stated that for less cost you get more heat.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 1st Dec 14, 11:24 AM
    • 27,966 Posts
    • 13,829 Thanks
    Cardew
    Thank you richardc1983!

    I did research. My room is smaller. This 900 watts infrared heating panel is stating in the website it is for maximum room 36 meter square. The infrared panel is with the stand on the floor.

    The website is stating the FAR infrared heating panels are making more heat with less cost. This infrared heating panel is taking 900 watts always and the room is not warm. I am very cold in that room. Now I am using 1000w regular electric heater and it is taking 750 watts the heat is ok.

    Cardew thank you this is true. "Like many companies, some of those manufacturing IR heaters imply that somehow you get more heat for the same cost; but you don't" This is true. This is stated that for less cost you get more heat.
    Originally posted by mjsingh
    Can you please post the link where it states 'This is stated that for less cost you get more heat'

    I have read the brochure and IMO whilst it implies what you state - the actual wording doesn't.

    For example they make this statement:

    They operate at a fraction of the cost of traditional oil, gas and other forms of electrical heating but offer higher levels of comfort.
    'Comfort' is not something you can measure - and indeed if you sat next to an IR heater you would be warmer than some other forms of electrical heating and thus more comfortable; however it doesn't mean they produce more heat for less cost.

    Incidentally I cannot see where it states the 900watt model is suitable for 36m2 - this is from the brochure.

    200W - 3 - 5 m2
    300W - 4 - 7 m2
    500W - 7 - 12 m2
    750W - 11 - 18 m2
    900 W - 13 - 22 m2
    1200W -17 - 29 m2

    I agree that around 700 is a huge price to pay for a 0.9kW electrical heater. Especially when you could buy a 2kW fan heater for 10.

    However unless you can show where the brochure is factually incorrect, you are wasting your time.
  • mjsingh
    Thank you!

    I may not place a link but I am stating from the website:

    Fact - Far infrared heating panels can do the same job as a regular electric heating system and use far less energy.

    Inspire Infrared White 900 Watt Panel
    FOR ROOM SIZES
    UP TO 45 M2 NEW BUILD UP TO 36 M2 MODERN UP TO 30 M2 OLD HOUSE
    All Electric Panel Heaters
    669.99 (inc. VAT)
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 2nd Dec 14, 1:57 PM
    • 4,656 Posts
    • 2,997 Thanks
    matelodave
    I think we've all been talking at cross purposes - the Inspire "infra red" heaters are just flat panel units not the sort with halogen lamps in them.
    Generally most places need something like 75-100watts/sq.m to keep them warm when the temperature gets down to zero outside. A 36sq.m room would need between 2.7kw to 3.6kw, ideally about 1.5kw at each end depending on the shape of the room.


    670 is a ridiculous price to pay for a 900w heater of any description especially when you can get one of these for 81 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Slimline-Flat-Panel-Heaters-1500W/dp/B003ULYZIE
    • fishybusiness
    • By fishybusiness 2nd Dec 14, 2:38 PM
    • 1,240 Posts
    • 797 Thanks
    fishybusiness
    Is this the company?

    http://www.infraredheatersdirect.co.uk/

    I've found the panel you refer to, same price etc here..

    http://www.infraredheatersdirect.co.uk/herschel-classic-panel-900watt

    It cites your figures for 36 m2 modern using the 900W panel,

    If you then use their panel wattage calculator here

    http://www.infraredheatersdirect.co.uk/calculator

    with rough room size of 6 x 6 x 2.7, required watts is 2430.

    To me this demonstrates a discrepancy in advice given - is that enough to find a legitimate way to ask for a refund?
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 2nd Dec 14, 3:23 PM
    • 27,966 Posts
    • 13,829 Thanks
    Cardew
    Is this the company?

    http://www.infraredheatersdirect.co.uk/

    I've found the panel you refer to, same price etc here..

    http://www.infraredheatersdirect.co.uk/herschel-classic-panel-900watt

    It cites your figures for 36 m2 modern using the 900W panel,

    If you then use their panel wattage calculator here

    http://www.infraredheatersdirect.co.uk/calculator

    with rough room size of 6 x 6 x 2.7, required watts is 2430.

    To me this demonstrates a discrepancy in advice given - is that enough to find a legitimate way to ask for a refund?
    Originally posted by fishybusiness

    Thanks!

    That link indicates that the 900w version is for rooms up to 45m2(new house)

    However that is at odds with other information in the website:


    Herschel Select Infrared Heating Panel 900 Watt

    For Room Sizes

    Up to 18.5 M2 New Build
    Up to 15.0 M2 Modern
    Up to 12.5 M2 Old House
  • Robwiz
    I think it's a case of caveat emptor. If the panel isn't faulty there's no prospect of a refund. If it's less than 14 days since acquired doesn't the OP have the right to cancel under distance selling regulations?
    • IFRHeating
    • By IFRHeating 7th May 16, 6:29 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    IFRHeating
    Your calculation is wrong
    I realise this is an old post but want to include this in defence of infrared heating and to be fair to the selling company. Their website states that a 900w radiator is suitable for 36m3 (NOT 36m2). Given a standard ceiling height of 2.7m this equates to an area of approximately 13.3m2. The website is quite clear. In addition as infrared is radiant rather than convection it is recommended that they should be placed at picture height or on ceiling. All of this is explained in the website. Radiant heating does not heat air so there is no sense of walking into a room and feeling a blast of heat. Rather it provides a thermal comfort in that you are warmed directly but subtly. If you do not have sufficient wattage for your room it will not provide the thermal comfort necessary. It is essential to calculate and supply the correct wattage. You need an extra radiator and you also need a timer or thermostat to ensure these work efficiently and cheaply. Once the area is warmed and radiating it's own heat the radiators will then need to be on for a maximum of 8hours to give 24hour heat. Obviously you can regulate this to suit your own requirements saving even more. With finishes including mirror, glass, pictures or plain that can be painted there is no reason why a radiator at picture level should look terrible.
    On a last point, 670 is far too much to pay for the rad (699 today 2016). You can purchase radiators of equal quality for less than half the price you paid.
    • lloydh
    • By lloydh 23rd Jan 17, 12:07 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    lloydh
    FAR Infrared heaters
    These heaters are also available from infraredpanelheaters.com

    They also sell a range of infrastrip heaters that are better for conservatories and rooms with higher ceiling heights or hard to heat properties.
    Learning a little more every day.
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