WARNING! Online bidding rip off at BCA British Car Auctions

1connect · 17 May 2011 at 8:18AM

????? are they really ripping us off ?????

I was at BCA yesterday, and I was SHOCKED and OUTRAGED at what I believe was happening...

Firstly some background about traditional FAKE bidding, some unscrupulous auction houses and auctioneers will take a real bid from punter A at the front of the room and to artificially inflate the price they will then "pretend" to take a FAKE bid from punter B who doesn't exist to then force another bid from punter A, the problem with this is that then, if the auctioneer reads the body language wrong and goes too far of punter A he can be left on the higher bod which id fake, they then frequently come back to punter A and say "I can take 50 if it helps" (half the bid increment) to reset the end bid back on the real punter. effectiveley this is fraud.

OK so now you understand this scam, what believe I saw at BCA Castle Bromwich in May 2011 was FAR WORSE!
The auctioneer was taking bids from the Hall and the Net except this is what I saw happen, the hall bids finished, he then carried on rattling off fake bids against the internet bidder forcing up the price by some £800 or so, and when the web bidders bids where exhausted he was left with a fake hall bid, I then saw the bid click BACK to the WEB BIDDER , yes they clicked the software to get the max bid to re focus on the REAL bidder ... UNBELIEVABLE !!!!!!

I should say I have been around cars and auctions all my life, with a family owned garage for half a century.

This guy was not even looking up between fake bids he was BLATANTLY playing the guy on the web and backing it up with FALSE verbal web commentary, as if there was a REAL BIDDER IN THE HALL.

I have to say I was disgusted.

SO for this reason I would advise ANYBODY considering buying a car FROM AUCTION on the web NOT TO BOTHER , instead go to the auction hall and watch the auctioneers eyes and follow then to the person in the hall looking for REAL signs of a REAL BIDDER.

Make this obvious top the auctioneer by tracking the bids and signals he is following, he might NOT bid you against a FAKE "fresh air" buyer.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED - FROM SOMEONE WITH INSIDE EXPERT TRADE KNOWLEDGE - DONT DO IT ONLINE - GO TO THE AUCTION - FOLLOW THE BID SIGNALS - NEVER ACCEPT A FINAL BID IF IT HAS BEEN HALVED - DO NOT SHOW ANY BODY LANGUAGE THAT YOU ARE DITHERING ABOUT A MAX BID (USE YOUR POKER FACE) - SET A PRICE AND STICK TO IT

RIP OFF BRITAIN STRIKES AGAIN :- I HOPE ANY AUCTION HOUSE DOING THIS IS INVESTIGATED FOR FRAUD

harveybobbles · 17 May 2011 at 8:45AM

and your point is...?!

harveybobbles · 17 May 2011 at 8:46AM

You will find that lots of car auctions will have reserves set on them, so the auctioneer will start just under the reserve and bid the wall off against the ceiling until he/she recieves a bid in the hall or online from a real person.

soolin · 17 May 2011 at 8:48AM

You are brave making such claims openly on an internet forum, can you for instance prove the internet bidding claims? I use auction houses (but not for cars) and the software for online bidding is NOT managed by the auction house but by the people who manage the online part so it would be impossible to reset the bid sitting at the podium.

As for taking half increments, that is very common and if you watch the TV programmes about buying houses you will see it is usual for an auctioener to offer a smaller increment to an underbidder, even at my end of the market I see smaller increments offerd sometimes if an underbidder wavers.

I have no involvement or even knowledge of the auctioener you mention, but since at least two of your points struck me as odd I htought it worth responding. I would be very cautious though in what you post online as some companies take their reputation very seriously.

harveybobbles · 17 May 2011 at 8:50AM

1connect wrote: »

the hall bids finished, he then carried on rattling off fake bids against the internet bidder forcing up the price by some £800 or so, and when the web bidders bids where exhausted he was left with a fake hall bid, I then saw the bid click BACK to the WEB BIDDER , yes they clicked the software to get the max bid to re focus on the REAL bidder

How do you know the hall bids had finished? Unless you were watching the hands, eyes and eye browns of everyone in there.

When i'm bidding I don't move or flap my arms about - I just look once at the auctioneer once to get his attention and then just stare at him. He comes back to me everytime and takes a bid from me, until I put my head down or wonder off.

Also if you've been in the motor trade for as long as you say, then you will know how an auction works...!

Heres a demo of BCA for anyone interested..

http://www.british-car-auctions.co.uk/Default.aspx?page=11140

Even small auctions have the same issue...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NSnShgwG3U

harveybobbles · 17 May 2011 at 9:07AM

1connect wrote: »

the hall bids finished, he then carried on rattling off fake bids against the internet bidder forcing up the price by some £800 or so, and when the web bidders bids where exhausted he was left with a fake hall bid, I then saw the bid click BACK to the WEB BIDDER , yes they clicked the software to get the max bid to re focus on the REAL

There was no hall bidder, but there was an online bidder (ie a dealer)

The auctioneer was bidding one off against the other, but the online bidder gave up, so they just reset the system as it didn't get close to the reserve price.

It happens lots. Not just at BCA.

RFW · 17 May 2011 at 11:25AM

Without naming any companies, I went for a job as an auctioneer quite a few years ago at a car auction house, whilst there I had to demonstrate taking bids to an empty room. I also watched an auction in progress where the auctioneer 'sold' every item they put through.

I found out later that the actual sell through rate of all the cars in the sale was 12%, so it is fairly common practice.

A lot of the larger companies have salerooms around the country and move cars between them until they sell, or return them to the vendor.

Edvard · 17 May 2011 at 11:41AM

You are brave making such claims openly on an internet forum

Without anything to back this up this is slander at best and all out libel is a possibility. This poster obvious likes to be sued, BCA are a huge company, I hope for his sake they don't see this!

Hammyman · 17 May 2011 at 11:48AM

soolin wrote: »

You are brave making such claims openly on an internet forum, can you for instance prove the internet bidding claims? I use auction houses (but not for cars) and the software for online bidding is NOT managed by the auction house but by the people who manage the online part so it would be impossible to reset the bid sitting at the podium.

Sorry soolin but I have installed auction software for a local auction house. They CAN manage it at the stand. You're assuming that the BCA is using the same software you've seen, assuming you've actually had first hand experience....

soolin · 17 May 2011 at 6:13PM

Hammyman wrote: »

Sorry soolin but I have installed auction software for a local auction house. They CAN manage it at the stand. You're assuming that the BCA is using the same software you've seen, assuming you've actually had first hand experience....

The system I am familair with displays on the rostrum to the auctioneer but is managed away from the podium by a third party. It is now fairly common in large auction houses and the auctioener has no control over it. For the items i buy the timings wouldn't work anyway as we are talking several lots a minute .

1connect · 18 May 2011 at 9:01AM

Seriously I posted this to advise people of what I saw, and to advise them to go personally to a hall to bid, anyone in the hall seeing this would agree with what I said and what appeared to be happening..
I'm not going to defend it, I have better things to do, no one will get a rise from me because I don't really care if you believe it or not.
However the matter has been reported as have people who have commented breaking MSE rules.

WARNING! Online bidding rip off at BCA British Car Auctions

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