Electric cars

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  • NigeWick
    NigeWick Posts: 2,715 Forumite
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    That tax disparity can't continue, though.
    No problem for now. Just double or treble the tax on buying ICE vehicles and their fuel.

    Once there are as many EVs as ICE machines on our roads, then taxes will have to rise somewhere. VAT on luxury goods like booze, TVs, radios, music players? I am sure government will think of something.
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  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    NigeWick wrote: »
    No problem for now. Just double or treble the tax on buying ICE vehicles and their fuel.

    Once there are as many EVs as ICE machines on our roads, then taxes will have to rise somewhere. VAT on luxury goods like booze, TVs, radios, music players? I am sure government will think of something.

    It will probably carry on taxing vehicles, both ICE and EV, perhaps even more highly than it does already.

    The money to make the necessary improvements to the electricity distribution infrastructure will have to come from somewhere.
  • AnotherJoe
    AnotherJoe Posts: 19,622 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »

    Slight digression, but specialist engine manufacturers like Cummins must be very worried about how they compete against mass produced motors that are simply multiplied as per the vehicles needs.

    Not just them. I read an article the other day, a major spark plug manufacture was branching out into wholly different fields, using its expertise in ceramic technology for new purposes, because they could forsee that in about ten years time that business was going to massively decline.

    Who else? Companies that make gearboxes? Toast.
    Brake manufacturers? Business decline by 75% at least.
    Turbo manufacturers? Bye.
    Fuel injectors? Bye.
    Exhaust systems? Massive decline just to replacements.
    People who make the petrol pumps? Already in decline anyway, that will speed up.

    All those little garages that do oil changes, spark plugs, general servicing? Massive decline. Think ostlers in 1900.
    Specialist engine tuners and parts for the petrol heads?
    Pointless when a family saloon burns off your pride and joy.

    Big chains like Kwik Fit? Tyres only. Is that even a sustainable business in that case?
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    AnotherJoe wrote: »
    Not just them. I read an article the other day, a major spark plug manufacture was branching out into wholly different fields, using its expertise in ceramic technology for new purposes, because they could forsee that in about ten years time that business was going to massively decline.

    Who else? Companies that make gearboxes? Toast.
    Brake manufacturers? Business decline by 75% at least.
    Turbo manufacturers? Bye.
    Fuel injectors? Bye.
    Exhaust systems? Massive decline just to replacements.
    People who make the petrol pumps? Already in decline anyway, that will speed up.

    All those little garages that do oil changes, spark plugs, general servicing? Massive decline. Think ostlers in 1900.
    Specialist engine tuners and parts for the petrol heads?
    Pointless when a family saloon burns off your pride and joy.

    Big chains like Kwik Fit? Tyres only. Is that even a sustainable business in that case?

    Blimey, yes, I hadn't thought how big the fallout would be, though I did read the article about spark plugs, I think it was the biggest company, NGK.

    I was watching a financial news article yesterday from the States discussing Tesla, and they pointed out that they already have a large distribution of sales sites, but explained that EV's do not suit the 'classic dealership' model, as they need the servicing, maintenance etc to be viable, and this won't happen with EV's.

    I may be wrong, but I suspect that the GM Bolt is just a compliance car that's gotten out of hand. GM's dealerships don't want EV's.

    In Europe the Bolt (Ampera-E) may be a dead duck, as GM seems to be trying to avoid supplying them. Under the sale of Opel/Vauxhall, they have to supply new cars, and parts whilst the Bolt is current in the US, so they recently put the price up by about €7,000 apparently to discourage orders.

    I think the old established car companies need to think about their futures. In large/old markets just a 10% downturn in sales can wreak havoc. A 10% drop in oil demand during the recession, and a 10% increase in supply more recently have both led to price crashes and loss of profitability.
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  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    edited 9 January 2018 at 12:36PM
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    Blimey, yes, I hadn't thought how big the fallout would be, though I did read the article about spark plugs, I think it was the biggest company, NGK..

    The fallout will be huge and it won't be restricted to those currently directly involved in the motor industry either. The loss of rural petrol stations, already in decline, will probably also mean the loss of many local shops too.

    I suppose the petrol pumps could be replaced with fast chargers for passing business or local people who haven't the time to wait for their low power home chargers to do the job.
  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    AnotherJoe wrote: »
    Who else? Companies that make gearboxes? Toast.

    You mean like ZF?

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  • almillar
    almillar Posts: 8,621 Forumite
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    In a technological age, it would be fairly straight-forward to put in some tamper-proof metering on car to charge per mile or per unit as preferred.

    Both those suggestions (meter in home, meter on car) have costs involved that someone would have to pay. Whilst EVs are being touted as cheaper to run than ICE, they'll do nothing. After that, I think gov might just have to put up with less income from fuel duty.

    175 miles, 3.5hrs each way. If you can't go that long without a pee, you probably ought to be seeing your doctor.

    We've discussed this before, but that's a long time to be sat in a car. I reckon most people would want a break. Sticking to the speed limit, I reckon I could do that with one fast charge (30 mins, pee and a coffee) half way each time, if there was destination charging.
    You shouldn't be driving tired or dehydrated of course.
    Why would it crash on a bend? I thought they had a lower centre of gravity, intelligent braking, and torque steer from multiple motors?

    Well it won't crash but it won't get round corners as fast. As I said, a Ferrari would be better on a track because it's LIGHTER. It's also a sports car, not a family saloon, but no matter where the weight is, it still needs to be sped up, slowed down, and turned, and for the moment, the argument is range vs weight.
    I may be wrong, but I suspect that the GM Bolt is just a compliance car that's gotten out of hand. GM's dealerships don't want EV's.

    I thought they were having trouble getting them built, and making a loss on them, so that figures...
    The loss of rural petrol stations, already in decline, will probably also mean the loss of many local shops too.

    No. All they need to do to retain, or rather get back, my business, is be well located, install a rapid charger, and sell me nice coffee. They'll make a profit from the coffee and anything else I buy, whilst I charge. Remember, they couldn't be profitable on petrol alone.
    Who else? Companies that make gearboxes? Toast.

    Change that word to transmissions, and they'll be fine. Power still needs to get from motor to wheel.
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 14,688 Forumite
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    edited 9 January 2018 at 3:04PM
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    AdrianC wrote: »
    175 miles, 3.5hrs each way. If you can't go that long without a pee, you probably ought to be seeing your doctor.
    Aim to stop every two hours or so
    https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/safety/tired-drivers
    A minimum break of at least 15 minutes after every two hours of driving is recommended
    https://www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/drivers/fatigue/policy-statements/

    All of the 'official' advice is to try and stop every 2 hours for a break. Professional drivers need to stop every 4 (and a half?) hours, too.
    Some people may try and push it and claim to be fine with longer uninterrupted but the reality is a 3.5 hour range will adversely affect almost no-one. For those that it does, then they'll either need to change how they do things, or use an ICE/range extender until the EV range meets their needs.
  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    Herzlos wrote: »
    I've had petrol cars that needed re-fuelled every ~200 miles and that never gave me any real problems.

    How long did it take to fill up?
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    almillar wrote: »
    Who else? Companies that make gearboxes? Toast.

    Change that word to transmissions, and they'll be fine. Power still needs to get from motor to wheel.

    I'm not sure about that. Building a variable 5, 6+ speed gearbox with reverse, or an 8 speed+ automatic is a big complicated job, and one that favours specialist companies. But a single speed fixed transmission without reverse is peanuts in comparison, and possibly the sort of job that'll get taken in house.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
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