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  • FIRST POST
    • TcpnT
    • By TcpnT 14th Jun 19, 10:17 AM
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    TcpnT
    LPA application query
    • #1
    • 14th Jun 19, 10:17 AM
    LPA application query 14th Jun 19 at 10:17 AM
    Have finally persuaded my wife's parents to arrange for LPAs to be put in place. At the moment we are just dealing with Health and Welfare (Still facing a bit of a battle with Financial but that's not relevant to this query)
    They are insisting on using a solicitor for the application because they don't trust online stuff. We are at the point of having received the part completed forms (ie signed by donor and certificate provider) for signature by my wife as attorney. I have noticed that despite previous discussions they have named each other and my wife as joint and several attorneys with no replacements. Previous discussion was that at least one other sister would be included as well to share the task and give a backup plan. As it stands we could end up with a situation where my wife is sole attorney for both parents at the same time. She is not particularly happy with this, especially as the other sister in question has a lot of experience with the health service and care providers and so understands how the system works.
    Obviously We need to discuss this with her parents before proceeding but my question is just about the application from. I want to avoid having to return the forms to the solicitor for alteration and return if possible due to time and cost. Looking at the forms I can see no reason why we cannot add the second sister into the appropriate space on the forms, by hand, either as an original attorney or a replacement. We could then post the forms on to other sister for signature and witnessing before returning them to the solicitor.
    Do you see any problem with doing this? Already the originals we have recieved have some handwritten corrections and dates so I can see no reason for not doing it this way.

    Thanks

    Chris
Page 1
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 14th Jun 19, 11:59 AM
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    • #2
    • 14th Jun 19, 11:59 AM
    • #2
    • 14th Jun 19, 11:59 AM
    There is no reason why additional attorneys cannot be added at this stage by filling in the appropriate forms, and there should be no reason the existing ones need amending.

    In the circumstances you describe I would go for the sisters to be able to act J&S rather than one of them being a back up to the other.

    I would not bypass the solicitors in submitting the application though. Any rejection will have to be made at their expense if they have failed to check the forms, if you send them off then you will have to pay to resubmit the application.
    • TcpnT
    • By TcpnT 18th Jun 19, 9:13 AM
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    • #3
    • 18th Jun 19, 9:13 AM
    • #3
    • 18th Jun 19, 9:13 AM
    There is no reason why additional attorneys cannot be added at this stage by filling in the appropriate forms, and there should be no reason the existing ones need amending.

    In the circumstances you describe I would go for the sisters to be able to act J&S rather than one of them being a back up to the other.

    I would not bypass the solicitors in submitting the application though. Any rejection will have to be made at their expense if they have failed to check the forms, if you send them off then you will have to pay to resubmit the application.
    Apologies for posting and then disappearing - I got sidetracked for a couple of days.

    Just to clarify, my question was only to confirm whether it would be permissible to enter another attorney or replacement to the relevant section of the form by hand ourselves without returning it to the solicitor for the addition to be made. Once all attorneys have signed and been witnessed we are still intending to return the completed form to parents in law's solicitor for checking and submission.

    At the moment the forms have one spouse and my wife (eldest daughter) as J&S attorneys with no replacements. It is my understanding that, because it is J&S, when one of those two can no longer act for any reason the remaining attorney would still be able to act alone - am I correct?

    However if a replacement was named on the original form they would then immediately become J&S attorney with the remaining original attorney - correct?

    Whilst I agree that the easiest option would be to name three J&S attorney from the start (In laws are 83 and 90) they are for some reason reluctant to do this with a somewhat outdated belief that all responsibility ought to fall on eldest the child. If we can't persuade them to do this then the backup option will be to name 2nd daughter as a replacement - on the grounds that if it gets to that point neither of them will be in a position to worry about it.

    Thanks
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 18th Jun 19, 1:00 PM
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    • #4
    • 18th Jun 19, 1:00 PM
    • #4
    • 18th Jun 19, 1:00 PM
    Apologies for posting and then disappearing - I got sidetracked for a couple of days.

    Just to clarify, my question was only to confirm whether it would be permissible to enter another attorney or replacement to the relevant section of the form by hand ourselves without returning it to the solicitor for the addition to be made. Once all attorneys have signed and been witnessed we are still intending to return the completed form to parents in law's solicitor for checking and submission.

    I do not think that should be a problem


    At the moment the forms have one spouse and my wife (eldest daughter) as J&S attorneys with no replacements. It is my understanding that, because it is J&S, when one of those two can no longer act for any reason the remaining attorney would still be able to act alone - am I correct?

    Yes

    However if a replacement was named on the original form they would then immediately become J&S attorney with the remaining original attorney - correct?

    Yes, so if one of the donors lost the mental capacity to act the replacement can act J&S with her sister. Unfortunately they would not be able to act for the person who needs it most because the 2 original attorneys would still be in place

    Whilst I agree that the easiest option would be to name three J&S attorney from the start (In laws are 83 and 90) they are for some reason reluctant to do this with a somewhat outdated belief that all responsibility ought to fall on eldest the child. If we can't persuade them to do this then the backup option will be to name 2nd daughter as a replacement - on the grounds that if it gets to that point neither of them will be in a position to worry about it.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by TcpnT
    Do they feel the same way about finance? Managing peoples finances can be much more burdensome than welfare and it seems unfair that the eldest should be put in a situation where they bear the brunt of it.
    • TcpnT
    • By TcpnT 18th Jun 19, 1:10 PM
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    TcpnT
    • #5
    • 18th Jun 19, 1:10 PM
    • #5
    • 18th Jun 19, 1:10 PM
    Yes, so if one of the donors lost the mental capacity to act the replacement can act J&S with her sister. Unfortunately they would not be able to act for the person who needs it most because the 2 original attorneys would still be in place
    Can you please clarify what you mean here. Either my explanation wasn't clear or there is an aspect that I have misunderstood.

    Do they feel the same way about finance? Managing peoples finances can be much more burdensome than welfare and it seems unfair that the eldest should be put in a situation where they bear the brunt of it.
    For reasons that have not yet come to light they seem to be reluctant to deal with the financial one at all. We need to discuss it with them and explain the importance (which I would hope their solicitor did) I'm sure they will come round to the idea in the end. When they do we will persuade them that both sisters should be involved. In fact I have suggested to my wife that if they will not agree to the second sister being included she should tell them that she is not willing to sign the forms as they stand.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 18th Jun 19, 1:26 PM
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    • #6
    • 18th Jun 19, 1:26 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Jun 19, 1:26 PM
    Can you please clarify what you mean here. Either my explanation wasn't clear or there is an aspect that I have misunderstood.

    For example if your FIL lost capacity, the replacement attorney could step in to take his place as an attorney for your MIL but it would be your FIL who would need the attorneys to act for him but that would still be his wife and the older sister.

    Your FIL could at that point give up his powers and hand them over to his younger daughter, but from what you say that might not be an easy task



    For reasons that have not yet come to light they seem to be reluctant to deal with the financial one at all. We need to discuss it with them and explain the importance (which I would hope their solicitor did) I'm sure they will come round to the idea in the end. When they do we will persuade them that both sisters should be involved. In fact I have suggested to my wife that if they will not agree to the second sister being included she should tell them that she is not willing to sign the forms as they stand.
    Originally posted by TcpnT
    Have you got your LPSs in place? If not, would it help if you did yours at the same time as an example?
    • TcpnT
    • By TcpnT 18th Jun 19, 2:03 PM
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    TcpnT
    • #7
    • 18th Jun 19, 2:03 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Jun 19, 2:03 PM
    For example if your FIL lost capacity, the replacement attorney could step in to take his place as an attorney for your MIL but it would be your FIL who would need the attorneys to act for him but that would still be his wife and the older sister.

    Your FIL could at that point give up his powers and hand them over to his younger daughter, but from what you say that might not be an easy task
    I see what you mean. At least if it came to that my wife would not be the single attorney - her mother would be acting as well and in that case she would probably want to be the main decision maker. As long as second sister is named on the paperwork the option is left open for her to act if necessary. If she's not included now then she cannot act whatever transpires.

    I am working towards doing our own - in fact that may be what swayed the in laws into taking at least some action.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 18th Jun 19, 2:39 PM
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    • #8
    • 18th Jun 19, 2:39 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Jun 19, 2:39 PM
    I see what you mean. At least if it came to that my wife would not be the single attorney - her mother would be acting as well and in that case she would probably want to be the main decision maker. As long as second sister is named on the paperwork the option is left open for her to act if necessary. If she's not included now then she cannot act whatever transpires.

    I am working towards doing our own - in fact that may be what swayed the in laws into taking at least some action.
    Originally posted by TcpnT
    Good luck with getting them to do the financial one, which is by far the most important with regards of not leaving you nearest and dearest a mammoth problem to solve.
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