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  • FIRST POST
    • lalala1512
    • By lalala1512 7th Jun 19, 9:02 AM
    • 15Posts
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    lalala1512
    Feeling I have overpaid
    • #1
    • 7th Jun 19, 9:02 AM
    Feeling I have overpaid 7th Jun 19 at 9:02 AM
    Here I am, another FTB canít stop thinking I have overpaid for my house!

    The house was originally marketed for 325,000 and I got accepted at 314k for it since when I checked the sold prices of similar ones in the same development, all of them were in a range of 310k-315k. My first offer was 310k and the seller came back stating they were thinking 318k. Being an overenthusiastic, I decided to meet halfway, hence 314k. The house was built in 2013 and is in a nice neighbourhood and despite it is technically a semi-detached with 2 bedrooms and 2.5 bathrooms, it is small. I didnít really realise how small it is after I really moved my stuffs in. It was in a good conditions throughout but needed re-painting £700. Then I moved in and the ensuite toilet had water leak through the floor so now a big damp patch in the living room ceiling. I have fixed the leak but not the ceiling so I am not really enjoying the house so far. I have been checking Rightmove (not a good thing to do I know), one house with 1.5 toilet is marketed as OIRO 315k, one terrace with the same features is marketed as 325k, and worst of all is one with the same features that was sold for 305k! All of these houses were built before mine, being 2008 2011 and 2012 in order of exceeding prices. Still I felt like I have overpaid and should have stuck to the 310k offer. I canít really take this feeling away so would love to hear some stories to reassure myself
Page 3
    • tori.k
    • By tori.k 10th Jun 19, 8:13 AM
    • 3,532 Posts
    • 9,469 Thanks
    tori.k
    OP if it makes you feel better we will have spent around 20/25K+ above the ceiling price for our area with the changes we are making to our current property.
    The changes we are making wont devalue the property but not add much value other than to us but this is home not an investment.
    Painting may well have cost you £700 but if you factor in its another couple of years before it needs doing again that,s less than a months rent for many.
    It helps looking at it with a different head if I sold this house in ten years for what I paid for it my extra 25K would have cost me around £200 a month I couldn't rent a bedsit around here for that. and if the market had dropped and i sold for 10K less it will have cost me £300 a month still couldn't rent that bedsit
    enjoy your home it really isn't a worry.
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 10th Jun 19, 11:33 AM
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    Crashy Time
    Complete nonsense. Tell that to the people who invested in some of the Icelandic banks. Oh yes, they got their money back....eventually rather than immediately, if they were the unlucky ones.

    When those banks collapsed, there was panic because the situation was unprecedented in modern times and few had any idea where the financial crash was leading.

    Of course, you, with your superior knowledge, would have behaved differently. However, that's just theory.

    We'd sold to rent, so there was >£400k sitting in the bank, and it's not terribly reassuring when your entire life savings are just pixels on a screen in times like those! Our reasoning was that a house was always going to be worth 'a house,' whereas we all know about times in history when fiat currency has become worthless.

    So, we were on a mission to buy. It was nice receiving about £22k a year in interest without lifting a finger; indeed, we'd never been so well-off, but all temporary situations must pass. They did. Try getting 6% interest today!

    As above, we stopped looking for the 'perfect' property, found a house with land that ticked a lot of our boxes and bought it at a bargain price, even though we didn't love it. We're still here and loving it 10 years on, having found it in 2009, at the very bottom of the price curve.

    Lucky eh? Well that's what people tell us now, especially people who've never done anything particularly interesting with property, but I'd say the reality is much more complex.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    Thinking that something like the Icelandic banks with their well dodgy rates, even then, could be the only possible alternative to buying property to "keep money safe" show that there is probably no point at all in discussing this topic with you.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 10th Jun 19, 12:19 PM
    • 27,839 Posts
    • 74,073 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    Complete nonsense. Tell that to the people who invested in some of the Icelandic banks. Oh yes, they got their money back....eventually rather than immediately, if they were the unlucky ones.

    When those banks collapsed, there was panic because the situation was unprecedented in modern times and few had any idea where the financial crash was leading.

    Of course, you, with your superior knowledge, would have behaved differently. However, that's just theory.

    We'd sold to rent, so there was >£400k sitting in the bank, and it's not terribly reassuring when your entire life savings are just pixels on a screen in times like those! Our reasoning was that a house was always going to be worth 'a house,' whereas we all know about times in history when fiat currency has become worthless.

    So, we were on a mission to buy. It was nice receiving about £22k a year in interest without lifting a finger; indeed, we'd never been so well-off, but all temporary situations must pass. They did. Try getting 6% interest today!

    As above, we stopped looking for the 'perfect' property, found a house with land that ticked a lot of our boxes and bought it at a bargain price, even though we didn't love it. We're still here and loving it 10 years on, having found it in 2009, at the very bottom of the price curve.

    Lucky eh? Well that's what people tell us now, especially people who've never done anything particularly interesting with property, but I'd say the reality is much more complex.
    Originally posted by Davesnave

    I didn't reply to Crashy's post, but I will say what I was going to say now.

    Our best man and his wife, our good friends had sold their first London flat, moved into rented and had ALL the proceeds sitting in Icelandic banks in 2008. The flat looked beautiful, but was a new basement conversion that started leaking.

    Thankfully, they decided to buy again as a result of that leak and completed on their new purchase *just* before the banks went caput, The flat is worth twice what it was.

    I appreciate that everything else around them has also appreciated, but they did buy back at the right time.
    Last edited by Doozergirl; 10-06-2019 at 12:21 PM.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 10th Jun 19, 12:23 PM
    • 27,839 Posts
    • 74,073 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    Thinking that something like the Icelandic banks with their well dodgy rates, even then, could be the only possible alternative to buying property to "keep money safe" show that there is probably no point at all in discussing this topic with you.
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Just normal people, Crashy, doing what people do. With all of us relying on luck and circumstance.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 10th Jun 19, 12:24 PM
    • 29,805 Posts
    • 102,891 Thanks
    Davesnave
    Thinking that something like the Icelandic banks with their well dodgy rates, even then, could be the only possible alternative to buying property to "keep money safe" show that there is probably no point at all in discussing this topic with you.
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Ouch! You twist my words, but people can see that and I don't care anyway.



    TLDR (remembering what the thread is actually about!)


    Buy when you are ready; don't attempt to to time the market.


    Have a list of 'must haves' and 'nice to haves' and distinguish between the two.


    Try to get as many must haves as possible, but don't expect perfection or to 'fall in love' with a property.


    Even if you get lots of boxes ticked, there's no guarantee you will come to love a property. No one can be sure of that, because the experience of living somewhere involves much more than just the house.
    Last edited by Davesnave; 10-06-2019 at 12:45 PM.
    Things are more like they are right now than they've ever been.




    • quantumlobster
    • By quantumlobster 10th Jun 19, 12:46 PM
    • 484 Posts
    • 1,071 Thanks
    quantumlobster
    Possibly the worst place to park money in turbulent times TBH, there are safer places where you can get at the money when you want/need it.
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Where have you parked your money?

    BTW I'm sure the landlord of your bedsit has had a better return on the rent you've paid than you have.
    • lalala1512
    • By lalala1512 10th Jun 19, 10:15 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    lalala1512
    OP if it makes you feel better we will have spent around 20/25K+ above the ceiling price for our area with the changes we are making to our current property.
    The changes we are making wont devalue the property but not add much value other than to us but this is home not an investment.
    Painting may well have cost you £700 but if you factor in its another couple of years before it needs doing again that,s less than a months rent for many.
    It helps looking at it with a different head if I sold this house in ten years for what I paid for it my extra 25K would have cost me around £200 a month I couldn't rent a bedsit around here for that. and if the market had dropped and i sold for 10K less it will have cost me £300 a month still couldn't rent that bedsit
    enjoy your home it really isn't a worry.
    Originally posted by tori.k
    Thank you for sharing! That's what I also thought when paying to paint (and the other thought was not having the time and effort to do it myself ). I just noted out the painting as one of the costs I regard as my unavoidable costs and people seems to be judging me for it ahah! The cost to paint didn't bother me one bit, the leak was the part that annoyed me. The seller concealed it so good and they left the house empty so the leak didn't start showing until I started using that shower. I felt so mad about them concealing it but hey, lesson learnt

    I actually compiled a spreadsheet (from recommendation on here) to see how much I gain from having a house instead of renting. Since I will also be renting out the other room for sometimes, I found that I will actually gain quite a bit after 5 years if I am to sell the house the price I paid The spreadsheet as well as so many nice comments on here really put my mind at ease, thank you all
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 12th Jun 19, 3:04 PM
    • 8,539 Posts
    • 3,009 Thanks
    Crashy Time
    Ouch! You twist my words, but people can see that and I don't care anyway.



    TLDR (remembering what the thread is actually about!)


    Buy when you are ready; don't attempt to to time the market.


    Have a list of 'must haves' and 'nice to haves' and distinguish between the two.


    Try to get as many must haves as possible, but don't expect perfection or to 'fall in love' with a property.


    Even if you get lots of boxes ticked, there's no guarantee you will come to love a property. No one can be sure of that, because the experience of living somewhere involves much more than just the house.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    As I read it you seemed to be saying that "buying a house to live in", which it seems to me you did, was the same as "parking money somewhere safe", this isn`t the same IMO. So we are clear though, do you think property is somewhere safe to park money now, not in 2009 or the 1990`s, but now? (Most people will be taking on debt for their property, but imagine someone had 500k cash to keep safe)
    • chelseablue
    • By chelseablue 12th Jun 19, 4:19 PM
    • 2,935 Posts
    • 3,424 Thanks
    chelseablue
    Im in Berkshire too

    I've been in my house 3 years and still haven't learned to like it
    We're actually thinking of moving to Lancashire to be mortgage free, or MUCH smaller mortgage
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 12th Jun 19, 7:59 PM
    • 29,805 Posts
    • 102,891 Thanks
    Davesnave
    do you think property is somewhere safe to park money now, not in 2009 or the 1990`s, but now? (Most people will be taking on debt for their property, but imagine someone had 500k cash to keep safe)
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Yes, I'd be perfectly happy buying today if I had to downsize due to illness or similar, which is the only reason I'd be relocating. What's the problem with that?


    I might find it best to rent again first as I did last time, but just like last time, it would depend what was available. I'm quite fussy!
    Things are more like they are right now than they've ever been.




    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 13th Jun 19, 12:51 AM
    • 8,539 Posts
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    Crashy Time
    Yes, I'd be perfectly happy buying today if I had to downsize due to illness or similar, which is the only reason I'd be relocating. What's the problem with that?


    I might find it best to rent again first as I did last time, but just like last time, it would depend what was available. I'm quite fussy!
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    The problem is that you are confusing "buying somewhere to live" with "somewhere safe to park money" (the latter is a favourite of people who seek to talk up the property market as a one way bet that can`t go wrong) We agree that Icelandic banks were not somewhere safe to park money (Flagged well in advance of the collapse on the site that some posters here love to hate) but seem to disagree on what a safe liquid investment is?
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 13th Jun 19, 8:17 AM
    • 29,805 Posts
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    Davesnave
    The problem is that you are confusing "buying somewhere to live" with "somewhere safe to park money" (the latter is a favourite of people who seek to talk up the property market as a one way bet that can`t go wrong) We agree that Icelandic banks were not somewhere safe to park money (Flagged well in advance of the collapse on the site that some posters here love to hate) but seem to disagree on what a safe liquid investment is?
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Fancy thinking somewhere safe to place most of our money and somewhere to reside could possibly be the same thing, eh?

    The irony is, being 'confused' has turned out really well for us, but I'm not wishing to big-up personal achievement, or go into detail. Suffice to say that thanks to this wonderful Tory government*, our one property is now a potential development site with the option to sub-divide and sell off bits as and when, which might meet some people's standards for flexibility, though probably not yours. Doesn't mean we'll do it either.

    I'm not putting down other people who want to approach things differently, or picking their posts apart. If others have a lifestyle where renting makes more sense, then they should go for that.

    There's more than one way to live life, but putting it on hold till the stars and markets align.....nope, don't recommend that at all.


    *may contain sarcasm
    Last edited by Davesnave; 13-06-2019 at 8:24 AM. Reason: Ellipsis
    Things are more like they are right now than they've ever been.




    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 14th Jun 19, 5:39 PM
    • 8,539 Posts
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    Crashy Time
    Fancy thinking somewhere safe to place most of our money and somewhere to reside could possibly be the same thing, eh?

    The irony is, being 'confused' has turned out really well for us, but I'm not wishing to big-up personal achievement, or go into detail. Suffice to say that thanks to this wonderful Tory government*, our one property is now a potential development site with the option to sub-divide and sell off bits as and when, which might meet some people's standards for flexibility, though probably not yours. Doesn't mean we'll do it either.

    I'm not putting down other people who want to approach things differently, or picking their posts apart. If others have a lifestyle where renting makes more sense, then they should go for that.

    There's more than one way to live life, but putting it on hold till the stars and markets align.....nope, don't recommend that at all.


    *may contain sarcasm
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    * Did you mean the whole post? The scenario you describe becomes illiquid at the slightest economic downturn, so that would fail one of the main tests of "safety" IMO, i.e liquidity.
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 14th Jun 19, 5:49 PM
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    Davesnave
    * Did you mean the whole post? The scenario you describe becomes illiquid at the slightest economic downturn, so that would fail one of the main tests of "safety" IMO, i.e liquidity.
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    It's obvious to everyone where the intended sarcasm is in my post, but just for you, look up Class Q in relation to planning for redundant barns, because that was a wonderful gift from a political party I've never voted for!

    As I don't want to go into details of my personal position, the only other observation I'd make is that you don't seem to know much about agricultural land and the way it holds its value. After all, no one's making any more of it.
    Things are more like they are right now than they've ever been.




    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 14th Jun 19, 5:53 PM
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    Crashy Time
    It's obvious to everyone where the intended sarcasm is in my post, but just for you, look up Class Q in relation to planning for redundant barns, because that was a wonderful gift from a political party I've never voted for!

    As I don't want to go into details of my personal position, the only other observation I'd make is that you don't seem to know much about agricultural land and the way it holds its value. After all, no one's making any more of it.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    How many house buyers in the country do you think are affected by this?
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 14th Jun 19, 7:29 PM
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    Davesnave
    How many house buyers in the country do you think are affected by this?
    Originally posted by Crashy Time
    Irrelevant.

    You made this personal by questioning our response to the last Crash, suggesting that a decison to buy property, rather than continue renting with our money in a liquid investment of some kind, was wrong.

    I've replied to the effect that that our decision paid off. It wasn't just luck though; it was a combination of buying well and working bloody hard.

    Having a property which ticked most boxes was key, rather than 'loving' the place.....which is what makes this relevant to the OP's original post. She doesn't love her house, but neither did we just after buying. It's where she'll be a few years time that matters, and that will be down to her personal resources.

    Now I'm out. Go bother someone else.
    Things are more like they are right now than they've ever been.




    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 14th Jun 19, 8:33 PM
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    Crashy Time
    Irrelevant.

    You made this personal by questioning our response to the last Crash, suggesting that a decison to buy property, rather than continue renting with our money in a liquid investment of some kind, was wrong.

    I've replied to the effect that that our decision paid off. It wasn't just luck though; it was a combination of buying well and working bloody hard.

    Having a property which ticked most boxes was key, rather than 'loving' the place.....which is what makes this relevant to the OP's original post. She doesn't love her house, but neither did we just after buying. It's where she'll be a few years time that matters, and that will be down to her personal resources.

    Now I'm out. Go bother someone else.
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    No, I questioned the implication that property generally was a "safe place to park cash" now, not when you bought. It isn`t IMO, but as most people "buy" with debt it doesn`t really matter all that much anyway.
    • Albala
    • By Albala 15th Jun 19, 9:20 AM
    • 285 Posts
    • 276 Thanks
    Albala
    Property can devalue, but if you are in it for the long haul and getting the benefit of living in it rent-free, it almost always holds its value and/or leaves you ahead, unless you are forced to buy and/or sell at very disadvantageous times. However, you do have to maintain it. Shares are similar in that in the long term you usually win if you spread your risks across a lot of sectors, and though you don't save rent, you have lower costs, and can get dividends, but with property it is always there, wheres shares can devalue to zero and become worthless.
    Anywhere else you put your money will either be more stable but with lower yields, often lower than inflation, or will be potentially higher yield, but even more risky, like commodities. You pays your money and you takes your choice. But when rents in many areas are higher than mortgage payments on the same property, buying usually makes far more sense than renting, provided you are in a position to do it.
    The only 'safe' place to leave your money is in a bank covered by the government scheme on deposits (provided you are careful about which one(s) and how much in each, bearing in mind some banks are part of the same organisation and so your money is only covered up to the one limit for money you have in all of them) and good luck even keeping pace with inflation if you do that. Or maybe gilts. Meanwhile, of course, you are paying rent....for ever.
    • Crashy Time
    • By Crashy Time 15th Jun 19, 11:32 PM
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    Crashy Time
    Property can devalue, but if you are in it for the long haul and getting the benefit of living in it rent-free, it almost always holds its value and/or leaves you ahead, unless you are forced to buy and/or sell at very disadvantageous times. However, you do have to maintain it. Shares are similar in that in the long term you usually win if you spread your risks across a lot of sectors, and though you don't save rent, you have lower costs, and can get dividends, but with property it is always there, wheres shares can devalue to zero and become worthless.
    Anywhere else you put your money will either be more stable but with lower yields, often lower than inflation, or will be potentially higher yield, but even more risky, like commodities. You pays your money and you takes your choice. But when rents in many areas are higher than mortgage payments on the same property, buying usually makes far more sense than renting, provided you are in a position to do it.
    The only 'safe' place to leave your money is in a bank covered by the government scheme on deposits (provided you are careful about which one(s) and how much in each, bearing in mind some banks are part of the same organisation and so your money is only covered up to the one limit for money you have in all of them) and good luck even keeping pace with inflation if you do that. Or maybe gilts. Meanwhile, of course, you are paying rent....for ever.
    Originally posted by Albala
    That part alone would make me wary of taking your advice on safe places to keep money.
    • tori.k
    • By tori.k 16th Jun 19, 1:14 AM
    • 3,532 Posts
    • 9,469 Thanks
    tori.k
    How do you get your maths to stack up CT that property isn't a safe investment.
    Lets take John and phil
    John buys his house for 100k 2% interest 15 year mortgage and Phil his neighbour rents the house next door for 500 a month.
    Over the years John has 10K of maintenance on his house.
    Phils been lucky landlord hasn't increased his rent he's has no maintenance and only paid 90K in rent by the time Johns mortgage is done and to top it off the housing bubble has burst and John house is only worth 50K
    John has to sell but happy enough as he walks away with 50K as his housing costs have been 77.5K over the 15 years so better off than phil by 12.5K.
    Rule of thumb if your lifestyle is pretty transient then rent, but if your planning in staying long term in a area then its a no brainer to buy.
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