Cheaper Oil for Fuel?

Debt_Free_Chick · 24 February 2005 at 10:14AM

A couple of observations as this is a subject close to my heart (wallet!) ... I have no mains gas and use oil too.

I've just had a new Aga installed (shouldn't have been necessary ... long story, but previous model neglected over 20 years by previous owners).

I was recommended to use Southern Counties, on the basis of quality. Apparently, a lot of additives can be added to kerosene and the quality can vary. Poor quality oil creates more deposits, meaning blocked pipes are possible and more frequent servicing a must. I need to do more research on this, but would be interested in others' experience/thoughts. I am persuaded by the quality argument, having seen the gunk blown back through the pipes when the Aga engineer found the oil supply to be poor. Needed a new filter from the tank too .. that was a right mess.

So, is quality an issue? If so, how do we check this?

Remember to have the filter from the tank cleaned, regularly. My new Aga engineer will do this whenever the Aga is serviced (every 6 months).

Re oil boilers ... have to say that I haven't noticed any difference in the noise level, having had gas for 25 years before moving here 2 years ago.

Re servicing ... in my experience, all boiler engineers recommend an annual service, irrespective of the type of fuel. For the little money involved, compared to a repair/callout, I consider this to be "good insurance". Get an annual service done to prevent a more serious problem buiding up over a period of time. And if you do have boiler insurance, check it - an annual service is often a condition of the insurance. No service, no payout!

Regards

crofter1 · 26 February 2005 at 1:03PM

I been serviceing and repairing oil boilers, aga's, oil fired Rayburns,LPG and mains gas appliances for the past 30 years..

A couple of point regarding price comparisons.and servicing.

main gas prices were increased over the rate of inflation prior to privatisation. the prices were then reduced to a more realistic world price level after privatisation, prices have been low but this "holiday" will soon end, The North Sea is not longer satisfying the uks demand for gas, we are now a net importer. (thank the use of gas for electricity generation for this rapid demise of our reserves). Watch out for price fluctuation similar to oil in the future!

LPG is considerably more expensive than oil or mains gas, the holding tank is usually rented form the supplier and you cannot shop around for the best price. The OFT was looking into the overly high price of LPG and the lack of completion in the market.

Oil prices do vary ( as has been stated) from supplier to supplier, for oil boilers you will notice little difference in using those that give the best price. Aga's Rayburns, Esse cookers, in other words any appliance that burns off a wick or pot are a different matter. The cheaper brands are usually less well refined, more tars etc left in the oil, this will build up in the burner, this can cause a failure in as little as a month. Slowly the oil supply to the burner reduces, reducing the air flow through the cooker, the soot starts to form and your cooker could be choked with soot. :mad:

Servicing is important, more so for oil as gas, the nozzle (jet) should be changed yearly on a pressure jet (not just cleaned), this nozzle is subject to an oil pressure of upto 150psi, the nozzle will erode letting more than the desired amount of oil into the combustion chamber, resulting in more oil use, the air inlets and fan can get blocked with dust and fluff again resulting in a less efficient boiler, The internal baffles and heat exchanger will become sooted and retard the passage of heat to the circulating water, all resulting in more oil use for less heat. :mad:

If you are the proud owner of an oil boiler that is 10 years old or older, you should consider getting a new more efficient boiler, the saving on your oil bill will pay for your new boiler in a few years!

work it out your self, the difference between 70% for older models and 85% or even 95% efficient for newer boilers.

oap · 27 February 2005 at 10:59PM

Hi, we have been on oil for over 20 years, when it was 10p a litre!!
However, what annoys us is when ringing around, how the prices vary. Last week, with the same company, we rang and got 23.65p for a 1000 litres, and ten minutes later rang back to order and were quoted 24p , by someone else, just what are they up to? Some companies on the same day quoted 25p, we are in North Wales and apparently they all get their oil from the same depot in Ellesmere Port, do they charge for distance to travel from the depot to wherever the customer lives? one penny on 1000 litres is a differenc of a tenner every time.
Coming back to our order last week, we agreed on 23.65 as we had run out, which we had never done before, it was a mistake on our part for not checking, they promised delivery the next day, it did not come on the a wild excuse that the tanker was unavailable, we were very cross and very cold, having to manage on two electric convector heaters at great cost!! They offered us a discount and promised the oil the following day, it came and they charged us 22.80 to compensate!

Does anyone know why the price varies so much on the same day at the same time from different companies. Where we live everyone uses different companies, so I do not think a cooperative would work.

Best wishes , oap

oap · 27 February 2005 at 11:02PM

Our oil boiler is three years old, how much is a reasonable cost for servicing?
That is also a minefield and varies greatly, thanks oap

westernpromise · 28 February 2005 at 1:16AM

oap wrote:

However, what annoys us is when ringing around, how the prices vary. Last week, with the same company, we rang and got 23.65p for a 1000 litres, and ten minutes later rang back to order and were quoted 24p , by someone else, just what are they up to?

Home heating oil is traded on the oil futures markets. The key market in Europe is the International Petroleum Exchange, where heating oil is traded in the form of gasoil. The price can change as often as every second.

Your suppliers are quoting you a price based on the one they see on a live trading screen, which reports IPE prices in real time. If they are smart, they will vary their own prices too.

WP
(former oil trader)

westernpromise · 28 February 2005 at 1:34AM

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

I was recommended to use Southern Counties, on the basis of quality. Apparently, a lot of additives can be added to kerosene and the quality can vary. Poor quality oil creates more deposits, meaning blocked pipes are possible and more frequent servicing a must. I need to do more research on this, but would be interested in others' experience/thoughts.

Home heating oil and kerosene for home use are commodity products widely traded by speculators.

This site may be helpful:-

http://www.nelmes.fsnet.co.uk/oilprice.htm

The key thing to remember is that there is a minimum spec for the oil you use, and all the supplier has to do is meet that. Exceeding it - giving you better quality than necessary - is generally considered poor commercial practice. There's even a word for it: "giveaway".

Your wholesaler will source the oil he sells you from the cheapest source. Those sources will either refine the stuff themselves or will buy components and blend it up.

In the former case, you usually get better quality, because the hassle to a refiner of buying off-spec products to blend the refinery output to the absolute minimum quality isn't really worth the money to be made. Blenders OTOH specialise in making stuff that's only just on-spec.

What you really need a supply from someone who has a refinery supply and is not reblending the stuff so it's only just on spec. You best bet is probably an authorised distributor for one of the majors, who have refinery production to sell off; it is likely, I would think, that those guys would be selling straight stuff that's not been messed about with.

Anyone else may be buying from the refiners or they may not. Just because the pickup point is the same, eg Ellesmere Port, it does not mean you are getting the same thing regardless of the specific supplier. Storage terminals are shared facilities and traders rent tanks there which they fill with their own sourced product.

hth

WP

(former heating oil trader)

Milie_R_man · 28 February 2005 at 2:49PM

In common with the others who have tried "boilerjuice" i was not impressed, the quote today was a full 5p per litre abpve what i paid last week! The only way seems to be the good old fashioned 'phone around and pick the best. the company i used in the end was CPL which gave me 1000 litres at 23.65 per litre

oap · 28 February 2005 at 9:58PM

Thank you so much for the very informative replies, we used Bates and Hunt, who we think may have something to do with Texaco, so maybe our oil is first class!!!! hmmmmmmm!! Will keep info saved for future use, thanks again, cheerio, oap

medge799 · 11 March 2005 at 8:08PM

I just paid 25.5p + VAT for 1000 litres in a small village near Cambridge. I buy as part of the village syndicate (we order together but are billed separately). I don't yet know if this is cheaper, I'm still in shock!

analyst_2 · 7 April 2005 at 4:36PM

Just thought I'd pitch in here with a few snippets of me own!

I'll be needing some oil soon and I shall be doing my usual "phonearound".

To make life easy for myself, I made a 3 column word doc listing my best 6 suppliers with their tel nos and space to write in the quote. Hey, its not rocket science, I know, but grabbing a pre-printed sheet is easier than phartin' around with tel directories each time.

In fact, comparisons over the years have eliminated a few suppliers who are ALWAYS higher. I'm surprised at how many of my neighbours have these stoopid tank modems fitted which automatically call up a dedicated supplier to top them up - jeez, you'll always pay high prices that way. Dump them, I'd say.

Two national companies I'd suggest trying are: CPL Petroleum and Emo Oil (which took over Shell Direct last year sometime). I have some friendly banter going with the people in the CPL office and will nearly always beat their prices down to below my best other quote, so I call them last. Yes, those quotes really can be haggled - do it!

Servicing - now I know the purists won't like this but . . . I do my own. Its easy to pull the burner out, clean the jet off with a small container of paraffin and a paintbrush, and shove it back in. On very rare occasions, I might get wildly enthusiastic and reach into the chamber, brush the soot down (if any) and vacuum it out with the crevice nozzle on the vacuum cleaner.

OK, so maybe I don't tune the finer settings (do servicers??) but I'd need to waste a hell of a lot of fuel before I got anywhere near the cost of a typical service charge, and my usage tells me that isn't happening anyway.

Cheaper Oil for Fuel?

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