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    • fibromummy
    • By fibromummy 13th Dec 18, 3:48 PM
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    fibromummy
    F2F Assessment Report Upsetting
    • #1
    • 13th Dec 18, 3:48 PM
    F2F Assessment Report Upsetting 13th Dec 18 at 3:48 PM
    Hi all,

    I received my copy of the f2f assessment and I am so upset. The lady basically stated in most of the areas that I have lied to her or as she puts it 'it is reasonable to believe that she can actually do this unaided'. I have Fibromyalgia, ME, complex PTSD, Hughes syndrome as well as anxiety. This leave me physically in constant pain, exhausted and with some severe mental issues. The PTSD that I suffer is because of a severe sexual assault, as a result I will not leave the house alone and cannot be around men other than my husband. The assessor said that even though I had reported the above & my husband who was present with me reiterated it. She feels that I could in fact engage with other people & take a journey unaided!! She has made me feel really bad about myself. I haven't been able to do these things in 3 years. I went to court and the monster was put in prison for 15 years but she feels that the effects would have passed by now? I have had my other conditions for 10 years and have had various medical professionals telling me to claim DLA/PiP but o always hoped I'd get better (naive I know) and the fact that this has happened just shows I was right to have left it.

    My husband has called on my behalf to request a mandatory reconsideration as it's taken 2 weeks for my letter to arrive and with Christmas, we were worried we wouldn't get the paperwork there in time. We will back it up with a written letter, when I can build myself up but I don't understand how someone could be so nasty? The DWP advisor I spoke didn't take any information about why or what I was disputing & just said that someone would call me when re considerating the decision. Is this correct? I thought that they took the details over the phone when you called?

    Sorry for the long post x
Page 1
    • baza52
    • By baza52 13th Dec 18, 5:22 PM
    • 2,373 Posts
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    baza52
    • #2
    • 13th Dec 18, 5:22 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Dec 18, 5:22 PM
    what descriptors were you marked down on and why do you think you should meet them?
    I see you were awarded standard care.
    What were you hoping or expecting to be awarded?
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 13th Dec 18, 5:39 PM
    • 2,885 Posts
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    Alice Holt
    • #3
    • 13th Dec 18, 5:39 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Dec 18, 5:39 PM
    Try not to take the assessment report personally.
    Most are cut and paste with meaningless comments like 'was well presented, maintained eye contact, the MSE (mental state examination) shows she is likely to be able to do this activity despite experiencing PTSD, etc,etc" . Basically complete nonsense.

    l would suggest writing an MR, as well as telephoning, include any readily available medical evidence. When writing this focus on the descriptors:
    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system
    and explain how and why these apply to you.

    Don't expect the DWP to change the decision - it's very likely you will need to appeal to the tribunal service. Here is the form to do this:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/748554/sscs1-eng.pdf

    This guide clearly explains the appeal process:
    https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal
    and tells you how you can maximise your chances of being in the 71% of successful appeals.

    Other resources:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/725533/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/mandatory-reconsideration/

    https://www.rethink.org/living-with-mental-illness/money-issues-benefits-employment/personal-independence-payment
    (Clink on resources link in bottom left hand side)

    EDIT: Just realised that this is your second thread, and I have now posted these references twice.
    I would suggest it's clearer if you stay with one post on the same topic.

    As Baz suggests - what we need is the points and descriptors awarded.
    Be aware that by asking for a MR opens up the whole award for reassessment. The DWP have the ability to increase, decrease, or leaves the award unchanged.
    Last edited by Alice Holt; 13-12-2018 at 5:46 PM.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • fibromummy
    • By fibromummy 13th Dec 18, 7:52 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    fibromummy
    • #4
    • 13th Dec 18, 7:52 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Dec 18, 7:52 PM
    Hi Baza and Alice,

    Thank you for your replies. Yes I was awarded standard rate with 8 points because of the aids I actively use from my occupational therapist. My raised seat, my bath seat, my perch stool and dressing aide. These are the only areas that I scored 2 points on. I am not worried about the mandatory reconsideration doing too much as they are documented aides so they can't really reduce the award any more. I went through the pip test with my OT & my CFS nurse and I should have enhanced on both. I was only given 4 points on mobility as I have to walk with a stick. They haven't taken into account any of my psychological problems and only the physical. They didn't document any of the pain I suffer when doing activities. They also stated that because I could hold eye contact and answer her questions, I can supposedly budget. I told them as well as it being on my notes that I have dyscalculia so I struggle massively with numbers in any way as well as directions. Yet they gave me no points for budgeting and planning a journey. It really didn't seem to make any sense. There was a lot of contradiction too. I understand that the chances of them reconsidering their decision is slim but as I have to go through the MR to appeal anyway, I will document as much as possible. My OT is going to write me a letter to correct any misconceptions too.

    Hope this explains a little more :-)
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 13th Dec 18, 8:05 PM
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    poppy12345
    • #5
    • 13th Dec 18, 8:05 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Dec 18, 8:05 PM

    I am not worried about the mandatory reconsideration doing too much as they are documented aides so they can't really reduce the award any more.
    Originally posted by fibromummy
    It has been known for people to lose what they already have through requesting the MR but it's rare. They will look at the whole award again and not just part of it.
    • fibromummy
    • By fibromummy 13th Dec 18, 8:15 PM
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    fibromummy
    • #6
    • 13th Dec 18, 8:15 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Dec 18, 8:15 PM
    Sorry, what I meant Poppy was because I only got 2 points in the 'uses an aide to' sections for the 4 aides that I use from the OT, they cannot reduce it any further as the aides are documented and they cannot say I am unaided if you see what I mean? Sorry, I don't make sense but I'm not sure how else to explain it :-(
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 13th Dec 18, 8:49 PM
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    poppy12345
    • #7
    • 13th Dec 18, 8:49 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Dec 18, 8:49 PM
    Do you mean you have proof you use the aids? I'm afraid it makes no difference because you can still lose everything you already have by asking for the MR. The award can also be increased as well of course but there's only an 18% chance of this.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 13th Dec 18, 8:56 PM
    • 2,885 Posts
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    Alice Holt
    • #8
    • 13th Dec 18, 8:56 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Dec 18, 8:56 PM
    On Daily Living - with 8 points, 4 more are needed to get to the enhanced rate.

    As you have stated Social engagement could be one activity you could look at.
    Do you need you husband with you when attend appts, i.e with GP, etc
    Does your PTSD mean you can't take in info / give info / remember instructions etc in these situations.
    That's the sort of situation which might get you to 4 points on 9c - Engaging with other people face to face - Needs social support to be able to engage with other people.

    Re: dyscalculia and budgeting.
    Presumably you failed the MES serial sevens test (counting down from 100 in sevens).
    Were you able to calculate the change question correctly?
    Do you have a diagnosis?
    Have you examples to give about paying bills incorrectly, misreading bank statements and becoming overdrawn, etc
    If you look at PIP assessment guide, you will see what constitutes complex budgeting.

    The other aspect you may want to look at is time taken to do the activities - read the reliability section of the PIP assessment guide, and look at the Benefits & Work guide (which is good on this). It may be possible that more points could be awarded for those activities you need aids to accomplish. Preparing and cooking a simple meal for instance?
    Do you do this? How long does it take? How are you afterwards? etc

    Mobility
    For Planning and following a journey, I imagine you are looking at 1b or (particularly) 1d
    So explaining why you won't go out on your own, what happens when you need to shop or other essential trips (i.e who comes with you and how this is done,, etc); any times trips have been curtailed due to panic attacks, etc; ability (or not) to cope with public transport; etc
    1b (in addition to 2b points) will get to a standard award. 1d to enhanced.

    As, I suggested before I would do the MR in writing. Enclose a copy of the OT report re aids, as this should prevent them from removing points.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • fibromummy
    • By fibromummy 13th Dec 18, 11:02 PM
    • 11 Posts
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    fibromummy
    • #9
    • 13th Dec 18, 11:02 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Dec 18, 11:02 PM
    Thank you Alice that is great. My husband and I have already started writing it all up. We've mentioned that I cannot leave the house alone, that I always need him with me in appointments as I find it hard to take in what has been said so I cannot relay what has been said. I've also discussed the flashbacks & what happens when I have them.

    Although I have a diagnosis, she didn't ask me to do any tests or monetary calculations. My husband did tell her & we've reiterated in the MR that I've incorrectly put figures in his accounts (he runs his own business) & caused us to pay too much for stock as I got the numbers the wrong way around. Before I got with my husband I was always terribly overdrawn and had money issues but he has helped me with so I will mention that also.

    I did write on my original forms how long it takes me to do activities but it wasn't mentioned at all on the assessment so I will ensure I add it in again.

    Thank you for the advice on the mobility section. I have written some clearer examples of what happens on my journeys. I cannot use public transport at all, I only travel in a car. I will also not use a taxi as they are usually male drivers. I hadn't mentioned this as I only discussed the routes I do take in the car.

    Thank you again for the assistance, I really appreciate it :-D
    • baza52
    • By baza52 14th Dec 18, 12:46 AM
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    baza52
    do you have evidence to back this up?
    If your that bad with figures why were you doing accounts in the first place? It seems a bit of a contradiction.
    Having an aide does not mean you are reliant on it. If you can use an aide to complete a task then you are capable of doing the task.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 14th Dec 18, 6:00 AM
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    poppy12345
    If you can use an aide to complete a task then you are capable of doing the task.
    Originally posted by baza52
    If an aid is used then you should score points for needing the aid (usually 2 points).
    If assistance is needed as apposed to using the aid then you have to prove why you need assistance and can't use the aid.
    • fibromummy
    • By fibromummy 14th Dec 18, 9:10 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    fibromummy
    Well Baza, because I'm 30 and I used to have a career that wiped the floor with my husbands but my life changed drastically and I find that hard to cope with because I don't want to give up. I always try doing my own accounts and helping my child with maths homework as I don't want to sit there and give up. I offered my husband help as he was there in a mountain of paperwork and I didn't end up actually helping but at least I tried.

    I am also reliant on every aide I have and cannot do the tasks without them.
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 14th Dec 18, 3:54 PM
    • 8,385 Posts
    • 18,191 Thanks
    kingfisherblue
    do you have evidence to back this up?
    If your that bad with figures why were you doing accounts in the first place? It seems a bit of a contradiction.
    Having an aide does not mean you are reliant on it. If you can use an aide to complete a task then you are capable of doing the task.
    Originally posted by baza52

    Unfortunately this is not always the case. For example, my son has bilateral hearing aids. They are provided by the hospital audiology department. It does not mean that my son can hear clearly all of the time - the aids increase the amplification of background noise as well as the voices that he struggles to hear, so whilst in theory, he can hear better, in practice it is not always the case.


    Another aid provided by the hospital is a foam wedge, designed to raise the head end of my son's mattress. The aim of this is to prevent reflux and choking, as gravity (in theory) helps. However, despite having the wedge for most of his life, my son still needed several medications, plus surgery, to try to prevent reflux - and nothing worked completely! Although he has improved a lot, he still has reflux and choking sessions, causing pain and distress.


    Aids can be very useful, but they do not necessarily mean that you can manage everything once you have an appropriate aid.
    • anonymousn123
    • By anonymousn123 20th Dec 18, 6:14 PM
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    anonymousn123
    The same is happening to me right now. I'm diagnosed with a personality disorder and suffer severe anxiety too. I also have a congenital brain disorder, which has led to vision loss and severe headaches daily, and I may be having brain surgery to relieve the pain.



    The assessor was rude to me, even questioned the validity of my personality disorder diagnosis.

    When I got the letter this week, it said I have been removed from the support group. I rang up and asked for an explanation on their decision, and she has lied about me too. She has made up things, claiming she carried out visual depth perception test. She has omitted over half of the information I told her, I'm regards to how both of my conditions affect me. And the biggest issue now is she has not put down my diagnosis of a personality disorder!



    It's so frustrating how the people who are genuinely sick and disabled go in with evidence and telling the truth, and they lie because they know many are too sick and vulnerable to fight back.
    • fibromummy
    • By fibromummy 22nd Dec 18, 9:27 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    fibromummy
    I'm so sorry to hear what you have gone through, it seems like unfortunately it is a common thing to happen to people. As you said, it's disgusting that someone would do that :'( I believe in karma x
    • fibromummy
    • By fibromummy 11th Jan 19, 1:20 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    fibromummy
    Just to update, just got the mandatory reconsideration notice and they've kept everything the same and just continued to refer to the f2f assessment, even though I explained it wasn't accurate and provided supporting evidence from my GP & consultant. On to appeal now ��
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 11th Jan 19, 7:12 PM
    • 5,912 Posts
    • 8,297 Thanks
    deannatrois
    Like a lot of people, I had the same. In fact the MR response even added another lie, saying I had been seen to pick up both my GSD and Spaniel dogs together lol. Never gonna happen, they weigh 45kg together lol.

    Not sure how they can do things like this, but obviously they do.

    I kept my MR letter brief on advice from here, but when I requested a tribunal, I added more details, explaining why I met the criteria for different descriptors to the ones proposed by the assessor. I also showed that the assessor contradicted themself, and displayed no understanding of arthritis, autism etc. I didn't say they lied, I said they were mistaken in, for example, recalling exercises I hadn't done (most of them).

    I was awarded enhanced mobility and care.

    The people at the tribunal were respectful and used the time to clarify things they weren't sure of. It was very very different to the assessor, who was nasty and difficult. However, I was watched leaving the tribunal room (there were lots of ramps which I had real difficulties with and suddenly I heard the head judge (sorry not sure of right term) giving directions on how to get out. He was standing there watching me lol. But I was glad as it meant they could see the assessor must have been blind when she said I didn't have an altered gait and completely ignored the pain I was in.
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