Charging Order? The myth
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Its doubtful you will get one recommended on here as those who have been successful don't tend to come back to the site after they have moved on? It is, sadly, trial and error with those Solicitors/Conveyancers you contact .
But if you make sure you have all the information to hand, from the Land Registry related on here, you can at least find out why they won't act as you wish? Experiences from posters on here relate that most conveyancers are ignorant of the facts relating to CO on jointly owned/sole debt property and how they are registered at the Land Registry. So if you relate this first, you might just crack open a window with one?0 -
For anyone interested, there is a possibility of a conveyancer being interested and able to take on work to act, professionally, for people selling with Form K Restrictions.
They say they have already completed sales without the creditor being paid on, or prior, to the sale and are of the opinion there is no obligation placed on them, for a Form K Restriction, to do so. They have also acted where the purchaser is doing so by mortgage.
If you are interested can you PM me in the first instance, please. But can I please just state this is, initially, only a service for people who A) only have a standard worded Form K Restriction registered on their deeds
are in the process of wanting to sell now and are not after information for a future sale and C) also who want a paid conveyancer to act on their behalf to see the sale through.
Please give as much detail as you can if you PM and please be patient for the reply.0 -
For anyone interested, there is a possibility of a conveyancer being interested and able to take on work to act, professionally, for people selling with Form K Restrictions.
They say they have already completed sales without the creditor being paid on, or prior, to the sale and are of the opinion there is no obligation placed on them, for a Form K Restriction, to do so. They have also acted where the purchaser is doing so by mortgage.
If you are interested can you PM me in the first instance, please. But can I please just state this is, initially, only a service for people who A) only have a standard worded Form K Restriction registered on their deeds are in the process of wanting to sell now and are not after information for a future sale and C) also who want a paid conveyancer to act on their behalf to see the sale through.
Please give as much detail as you can if you PM and please be patient for the reply.
Hi Eggbox… we would like to sell and have negotiated with a possible buyer, but I guess that's not going to happen now that I have the 14 day caution… I am determined not to pay the judgement creditor as I should never have been ordered to pay his legal costs in the first place due to a miscarriage of justice...
I was just wondering what happens when you give them the notice… Will have to have a look at Wembley14's post again as I have two charges on same debt… very complicated...
Do you know if they can make an order for a third party freezing order on the equity? Am I right in thinking that wouldn't be possible where the equity is shared and only one person is a debtor?
I am just wondering how we can safely proceed with the sale, but I am prepared to wait until I can get some more information… Hmmm...0 -
Hi Dakota, the simple answer to your question is yes they can apply for a freezing order but it would be highly unlikely.
The reason for that is because Freezing Orders have to be justified, are expensive to obtain and carry financial risk if they are proven not to be justified. An explanation of why that is can be found here;
http://www.2tg.co.uk/assets/docs/newsletter_documents/practical_guide_to_freezing_orders_winter2009.pdf0 -
Hi Dakota, the simple answer to your question is yes they can apply for a freezing order but it would be highly unlikely.
The reason for that is because Freezing Orders have to be justified, are expensive to obtain and carry financial risk if they are proven not to be justified. An explanation of why that is can be found here;
http://www.2tg.co.uk/assets/docs/newsletter_documents/practical_guide_to_freezing_orders_winter2009.pdf
Thank you very much for that… I thought the 700 - 1000 pounds per week living expenses very generous, especially as I have to manage on 75 quid… haha!
Oh..this last part is particularly interesting as my other half lives and works overseas, and they would need to inform him prior to any freezing order, hopefully. I guess they cannot freeze our joint assets by making a 'without notice' application…and they have to make sure that any innocent 3rd party is not adversely affected...
As a respondent, be careful not to submit to the jurisdiction unintentionally. Reserve your position. Note the time for disputing jurisdiction under CPR 11 and the special rules for the Commercial Court.
Remember the limitations of a worldwide freezing order
A worldwide freezing order will not affect anyone outside the jurisdiction other than the respondent (or officer or agent). However, a person who is given written notice of the order in this jurisdiction and is able to prevent acts or omissions outside the jurisdiction which amounts to a breach of the order will be subject to the jurisdiction of the court.
In practical terms, a freezing order may be of little assistance if a respondent has no material assets in the jurisdiction and no intention of returning to the jurisdiction.0 -
Hi Eggbox.. I also found this…see the last bit...
What is a Third Party Debt Order?
It is an order of the court that freezes money held by a person, organisation or institution,
such as a bank or building society, which might otherwise be paid to the defendant against
whom you have a judgment. The organisation or person that is holding the money is
referred to as the ‘third party’. A third party debt order will prevent the defendant having
access to the money until the court makes a decision about whether or not the money
should be paid to you. In these proceedings the person who owes you the money is
referred to as the ‘judgment debtor’; you are referred to as the ‘judgment creditor’.
The money held by the third party must be held solely for the debtor. You cannot, for example, apply for a third party debt order against a joint bank account unless the
judgment debt is owed by all the account holders.0 -
Dakota
That is why you become Tenants in Common and not Joint Owners when a CO is made against one of the owners.
And be warned there are moves in the pipeline to change Third Party Debt Orders to enable creditors to sieze funds from a wider range of bank accounts;
https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital-communications/county_court_disputes/results/third-party-debt-orders-response-eia.pdf0 -
Dakota
That is why you become Tenants in Common and not Joint Owners when a CO is made against one of the owners.
And be warned there are moves in the pipeline to change Third Party Debt Orders to enable creditors to sieze funds from a wider range of bank accounts;
https://consult.justice.gov.uk/digital-communications/county_court_disputes/results/third-party-debt-orders-response-eia.pdf
Hi Eggbox & LRR…
Does it happen automatically at Land Registry that you become Tenants in Common rather than Joint Owners once a CO is made, or would we both need to make an application to LR to become T'sIC?…
I am a bit confused and wondering about the legality of transferring my share (or a large percentage) of the property to my husband? Would this not be seen as trying to evade the debt?
(Thanks for the link)...0 -
Hi dakota45,
How goes your saga on electricity.
Are you still reading every 2 hours or are you prepared to pay an electrician yet.0 -
Does it happen automatically at Land Registry that you become Tenants in Common rather than Joint Owners once a CO is made, or would we both need to make an application to LR to become T'sIC?…
LRR has confirmed its not automatically noted and that's why the register shouldn't be relied on to check if owners Joint or TiC'sI am a bit confused and wondering about the legality of transferring my share (or a large percentage) of the property to my husband? Would this not be seen as trying to evade the debt?
This is where it all gets confusing as I can't see anything that prevents an equity transfer by owners? The Restriction wouldn't be removed, however, and would remain on the deeds. But my argument would be that once a person no longer has any Beneficial interest in a property then it becomes "superfluous" and should be removed?
As regards trying to evade the debt, the CO was against a Beneficial Interest which, as far as I can see, is not defined or set against any fixed amount when the order is made? It would also be down to the creditor to make a case for this which I would contend would be expensive and time consuming?
As many people have found when suing people for money owed; getting a Judgement from the Court is one thing, getting the money owed actually repaid is very different.0
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