Help! Father badly scammed

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  • robatwork wrote: »
    Martin or Paul Lewis of Moneybox may very well be interested and want to take up this story.

    And BBC Watchdog, although they're off the air at the moment they may take it up now for the next series.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
  • Silvertabby
    Silvertabby Posts: 9,014 Forumite
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    edited 8 December 2018 at 2:35PM
    “ But family?
    Originally posted by soulsaver
    Yes. People of a certain generation had the mentality of Careless Talk Costs Lives. Consider the secrets of Bletchley Park which were kept, erm, secret even from closest family by the thousands of people who worked there for decades afterwards. If you were told something in confidence, you kept that confidence, and if you weren't told something you minded your own business and didn't ask.


    Very true. Mr S's (maths graduate) gran worked at Bletchley Park - but she never did talk about what she did.
  • CKhalvashi
    CKhalvashi Posts: 12,056 Forumite
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    I’m sorry for the situation that your father finds himself in.

    I just had a quick look on the FOS site for you, and section 135/9 seems relevant on this link, although not identical. https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/135/135-case-studies-about-scams.html

    I can’t find anything specifically on the IFA situation, however due to the fact that questions were not asked, it may be worth raising the question with the bank and the IFA through a formal complaint.

    I know that when I have made a transfer above a certain amount, I have been grilled big time, so someone should have questioned what was happening, especially on day 2 of the transfers taking place.
    💙💛 💔
  • sheramber
    sheramber Posts: 19,059 Forumite
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    Questions were asked.

    The financial advisor checked my father was sure and my father signed a letter of consent and the funds were duly liquidated.

    Son thinks he did get a call from the bank and he obviously gave appropriate answers
    think he may have had a call from the bank after the first payment to check this was ok.
  • robatwork
    robatwork Posts: 7,087 Forumite
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    And BBC Watchdog, although they're off the air at the moment they may take it up now for the next series.

    I guess it's an option. A little off topic but this used to be obligatory viewing for anyone interested in consumer rights. Since Anne Robinson left it's been on a self-destruct trajectory with the newer "casual" presentation styles. The latest incarnation this series is a total car crash, the presenters awful, and unwatchable.

    I tried 10 minutes of this week's episode just to test the water. My buttocks have only recently unclenched.
  • jonnygee2
    jonnygee2 Posts: 2,086 Forumite
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    Does anyone think the bank should have done more? What about the financial advisor?

    This really is a tough situation. Given the size of money involved it is worth raising this as a complaint against both the IFA and the bank (I assume the IFAs insurance would cover it if the complaint was successful?).

    But really what could anyone have done here? He was the account holder. He was fully convinced about what he was doing and would have answered any questions saying it's what he wanted to do. He signed a letter of consent, he gave permission for the tranfers. Given he was totally convinced by the FCA ploy, warnings about fraud probably fell on deaf ears.

    I can't even think about a process which would have prevented this.
  • Thanks once again everyone for your comments and supportive messages. I'll go through you comments and links in more detail.

    I'm just back from seeing my dad and I took him to the pub and perked him up a bit. Its been a few weeks since it happened and because my mother has dementia he doesn't really have anyone to talk to so you can just spend your days dwelling and regretting. Anyway we aren't going down lightly.

    What is interesting is the grooming process which I've learnt more about. My dad initially wanted to confirm they were from his bank and called them back. I think they employed the method of not putting down the phone from the other end and my father probably didn't listen out for the dialling tone and they were on the line all the time. My father also claimed he was suspicious initially and did 1471 on the phone and did get an FCA phone number. Not sure about that but needs looking into perhaps.

    What I also well know is the fundamental reason for my dad to go down the chaotic road he did was fear. The fraudsters purporting to be from the FCA were threatening my father with prosecution if he didn't fully co-operate with their investigation. Under no circumstances must he discuss this with anyone because they claimed a criminal gang was working inside the back. They also claimed that my father's IFA was involved too. They successfully isolated my father and he did what they wanted like he was in a Derren Brown show.

    I think the checks at the bank were a bit weak but I know some of you will disagree. For example my father went in and said he wanted to make a transfer to a bank in Abu Dhabi for £240K. The bank clerk recognised my dad (he pays his tax bill - no more that £100) and asked him if he was satisfied it was a legitimate account. My dad said yes and it was done in a minute. He did get a call from the Bank confirming that he wanted to go ahead but no other questions asked. This was repeated twice more over two days until the money was gone. Obviously the bank will argue that 1. The account details were correct, 2. They were satisfied in my dad's identity and 3. He showed no sign of being on edge.

    The IFA did simply comply with my father's wishes and cashed-in his SIPP. I would argue that little if any due diligence was conducted by the company. My father had a 5 minute call with his adviser who asked if my father was sure. Also when they cashed in the Sipp they only applied a basic 20% of tax. This meant that my father became a high rate tax payer on the money he received. If they had applied the correct PAYE tax on the amount my father would have received less, lost less and not be facing a potentially large tax bill of 90-100k.

    Is anyone familiar with the recent Berkeley Burke v FOS ruling? Not exactly the same but it was found that even executor-only SIPP providers should ensure that their clients are not being scammed . I think if the victim in this case is found to have been poorly advised then I think it could be argued that my father has a complaint.

    Anyway lots to think about and the great thing is I'm learning a hell of a lot.

    Thanks again everyone.
  • eskbanker
    eskbanker Posts: 30,938 Forumite
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    My father also claimed he was suspicious initially and did 1471 on the phone and did get an FCA phone number. Not sure about that but needs looking into perhaps.
    That'll be phone number spoofing:

    https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/alert/alert-watch-out-for-new-number-spoofing-scam
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/problems/tackling-nuisance-calls-and-messages/phone-spoof-scam
  • xylophone
    xylophone Posts: 44,348 Forumite
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    For example my father went in and said he wanted to make a transfer to a bank in Abu Dhabi for £240K.

    And two more in quick succession? I am utterly flummoxed as to how this did not lead to his account being frozen subject to investigation.
  • Candyapple
    Candyapple Posts: 3,384 Forumite
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    What bank was it?
    I'm a Board Guide on the Credit Cards, Loans, Credit Files & Ratings boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge threads there. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com
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