"Looking for a PV and EV solution"

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  • Coastalwatch
    Coastalwatch Posts: 3,111
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    edited 17 February 2018 at 11:43AM
    zeupater wrote: »
    Hi

    Have a read through this thread on the G&E board ..." Sorry, not allowed to post the link" ... it may be interesting considering the points raised above ...

    HTH
    Z
    My, my Z that's some eye opener! I've read it through from beginning to end, some of it more than once. Have to confess to not understanding it entirely, but enough to know that I'll be pursuing it further. I have to congratulate you and co contributors for dedication, research and resourcefulness. From results posted it seems to be paying handsome dividends for you and others now.:beer:

    I notice Toshiba are now producing a version 9 of the unit you fitted, but have yet to discover what advantages it may hold or likely cost. In the mean time I'm trying to work out what might be the best room to install such a unit given that our lounge/diner faces sse and wsw, is mostly glazed on those two outer walls so capturing warmth from any sun, even in the depth of winter. Perhaps I should try posting a floor plan to better explain my quandry!

    Received a phone call from the online company chasing up their quotation posted earlier. I explained that I'd actually asked for two quotations, one at 4kw the other as large as our roof would accommodate, but they'd only sent the one to cover the former. He stated, on more than one occasion, that it wouldn't be allowed without council permission which I would have to obtain!
    Of course, I now know differently, but two weeks ago I wouldn't! :j
    East coast, lat 51.97. 8.26kw SSE, 23° pitch + 0.59kw WSW vertical. Nissan Leaf plus Zappi charger and 2 x ASHP's. Givenergy 8.2 & 9.5 kWh batts, 2 x 3 kW ac inverters. Indra V2H . CoCharger Host, Interest in Ripple Energy & Abundance.
  • Ectophile wrote: »
    My battery is quite small, with a usable capacity of 3kWh. At this time of year, it takes about 2 hours of sun to fully charge it.

    If I'm careful, that battery can last me all evening. On a good day, it still has enough charge the following morning to power up the central heating boiler and pump.

    But how much use it is depends on the weather during the day. On a miserable day, it's largely useless.

    But what I don't know is whether I will ever get back the extra cost of buying a system with a battery. There's a risk that the battery will never store enough power over its lifetime to pay for the cost of the electricity it's saved.

    You'd also need to know roughly how much electricity you need to store per day. If I was to plug in an electric car with a 30kWh flat battery, then my 3kWh battery in the loft would be flat within an hour, and the car would still have a nearly flat battery.

    Thanks Ectophile, I do appreciate your input. The 3kwh Battery seems to be working well for you and I hope it survives long enough to give you a good return on your investment. If I choose this route then I'm obviously going to need something with a bit more Ooomph!
    East coast, lat 51.97. 8.26kw SSE, 23° pitch + 0.59kw WSW vertical. Nissan Leaf plus Zappi charger and 2 x ASHP's. Givenergy 8.2 & 9.5 kWh batts, 2 x 3 kW ac inverters. Indra V2H . CoCharger Host, Interest in Ripple Energy & Abundance.
  • I'm surprised by that. I've gotten a bit too used to folk posting crazy quotes on here ... £8k ...... £10k etc, that I thought you'd have to start at the silly end and work your way forward.

    I suppose the bungalow bit works in your favour. If I was getting greedy then maybe £6k for 6kWp, but that might be asking too much, but at least you've started at the right end.

    Hope the fun continues. ;)[/QUOTE]

    Thanks again Martyn. Looks like it's set to continue for sometime yet. :)
    East coast, lat 51.97. 8.26kw SSE, 23° pitch + 0.59kw WSW vertical. Nissan Leaf plus Zappi charger and 2 x ASHP's. Givenergy 8.2 & 9.5 kWh batts, 2 x 3 kW ac inverters. Indra V2H . CoCharger Host, Interest in Ripple Energy & Abundance.
  • Wobblydeb
    Wobblydeb Posts: 1,046
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    Hi - we've just gone through a similar thought process and are getting a 4.8kW system installed in a couple of weeks. Alongside this will be two gadgets from myenergi - an Eddi (trickle feeds the hot water cylinder) and a Zappi (trickle feeds the electric car).

    My understanding is that whilst the system can produce 4.8kW the inverter is limited to "4kW" (actually 3.68kW) so no need to apply to your DNO to go over the limit. Yes, you will have occasions when you could have exported more, but the cost of a larger inverter would not be justified.

    We already had the car - an Outlander PHEV which replaced two vehicles as it could do both jobs. Perhaps you could also consider a hybrid if you rarely use both vehicles at once?

    The zappi is very new, but is an amazing bit of kit. It lets you decide whether to charge your car using just what solar power is available, or up to 7kw (if your car can charge at that rate) by drawing in power from the grid too. http://myenergi.uk/

    We did look at getting a battery, but couldn't get the maths to work out. By using power to charge the car and heat our water for the evening, we should get a decent % utilisation. Time will tell! :)
    I've got a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel.
  • Hi Wobblydeb, thanks very much for posting, nice to hear of someone else heading this way. I'm sure others must already been there surely! Our other vehicle is a Renault Trafic in which I transport my classic motorcycles, in combination with towing a caravan for weekends away. So think I'll probably need to retain this giving me the option of just an electric to run off of the PV system. Glad to learn that you've managed go from two vehicles down to just one. I'd be really interested to learn how it's all working out for you once everything is plumbed in. I'll certainly be looking in more depth at the ARHP scenario that Zeupater and Martyn have introduced as it seems to offer a good return.
    Have to confess that I haven't studied EV's to any degree concentrating on the PV system to date. Perhaps it's something I need to investigate in more depth especially as I believe you need to own the vehicle before organising the charge point if you are to claim the government subsidy on offer. I'd love to have the ability to run our property totally off of PV energy but, with battery costs as they are it may be a year or two away. Just want to make sure I've the necessary size array to give us sufficient output, accepting this may not be achievable in the darkest winter months!

    Don Quixote rides again!
    East coast, lat 51.97. 8.26kw SSE, 23° pitch + 0.59kw WSW vertical. Nissan Leaf plus Zappi charger and 2 x ASHP's. Givenergy 8.2 & 9.5 kWh batts, 2 x 3 kW ac inverters. Indra V2H . CoCharger Host, Interest in Ripple Energy & Abundance.
  • Coastalwatch
    Coastalwatch Posts: 3,111
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    Wobblydeb wrote: »

    The zappi is very new, but is an amazing bit of kit. It lets you decide whether to charge your car using just what solar power is available, or up to 7kw (if your car can charge at that rate) by drawing in power from the grid too. http://myenergi.uk/

    The zappi looks a great bit of kit and I may well be tempted to have one installed. However at the outset of this thread I had hoped to utilise any excess PV output in charging an EV and wonder if it's limited output would necessitate installing a charge point. After all, with a granny cable and 13A supply wouldn't these cope with most of what the Solar panels would charge at!
    Given that I should be able to charge through most of the daylight hours, am I just being too simplistic in my out look here? :o
    East coast, lat 51.97. 8.26kw SSE, 23° pitch + 0.59kw WSW vertical. Nissan Leaf plus Zappi charger and 2 x ASHP's. Givenergy 8.2 & 9.5 kWh batts, 2 x 3 kW ac inverters. Indra V2H . CoCharger Host, Interest in Ripple Energy & Abundance.
  • Dave_Fowler
    Dave_Fowler Posts: 612
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    edited 3 March 2018 at 9:09AM
    The zappi looks a great bit of kit and I may well be tempted to have one installed. However at the outset of this thread I had hoped to utilise any excess PV output in charging an EV and wonder if it's limited output would necessitate installing a charge point. After all, with a granny cable and 13A supply wouldn't these cope with most of what the Solar panels would charge at!
    Given that I should be able to charge through most of the daylight hours, am I just being too simplistic in my out look here? :o

    I was able to charge my ev on Monday and Tuesday this week using the spare power from the PV. The power diverter I designed can be set to prioritize either the proportional output to the immersion heater or the non-proportional output to the 13A socket I use for the car. It switches off the supply to the socket immediately there is insufficient spare power and sends what is available to the immersion, and then turns the socket on again when the excess power increases. On dull days I can set the car to use 5, 8 or 12 Amps. So there is definitely enough from a normal domestic PV system to charge the car on a reasonably sunny day but you just need to be able to turn the supply off when the sun goes in.

    I've offered the design to several people, but no one has taken it up so far because it is a bit complicated for a non-electronics person to make.

    Dave F
    Solar PV System 1: 2.96kWp South+8 degrees. Roof 38 degrees. 'Normal' system
    Solar PV System 2: 3.00kWp South-4 degrees. Roof 28 degrees. SolarEdge system
    EV car, PodPoint charger
    Lux LXP 3600 ACS + 6 x 2.4kWh Aoboet LFP 2400 battery storage. Installed Feb 2021
    Location: Bedfordshire
  • Coastalwatch
    Coastalwatch Posts: 3,111
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    I was able to charge my ev on Monday and Tuesday this week using the spare power from the PV. The power diverter I designed can be set to prioritize either the proportional output to the immersion heater or the non-proportional output to the 13A socket I use for the car. It switches off the supply to the socket immediately there is insufficient spare power and sends what is available to the immersion, and then turns the socket on again when the excess power increases. On dull days I can set the car to use 5, 8 or 12 Amps. So there is definitely enough from a normal domestic PV system to charge the car on a reasonably sunny day but you just need to be able to turn the supply off when the sun goes in.

    I've offered the design to several people, but no one has taken it up so far because it is a bit complicated for a non-electronics person to make.

    Dave F

    Hi Dave, thanks for posting it's good to learn there is spare power to charge an EV at this time of year and how impressive to not only design, but also produce a power diverter to charge it and alternate with another application as well!
    Like most people I've little knowledge of electronics other than that it usually involves a pcb, diodes and resistors etc. so can't be of any help with regards to making one of my own. I'd have thought though that there must be a few people with a suitably technical background who would be interested given the opportunity. Sounds like an ideal project for the electronically minded diy'er!
    East coast, lat 51.97. 8.26kw SSE, 23° pitch + 0.59kw WSW vertical. Nissan Leaf plus Zappi charger and 2 x ASHP's. Givenergy 8.2 & 9.5 kWh batts, 2 x 3 kW ac inverters. Indra V2H . CoCharger Host, Interest in Ripple Energy & Abundance.
  • legoman62
    legoman62 Posts: 4,520
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    I was able to charge my ev on Monday and Tuesday this week using the spare power from the PV. The power diverter I designed can be set to prioritize either the proportional output to the immersion heater or the non-proportional output to the 13A socket I use for the car. It switches off the supply to the socket immediately there is insufficient spare power and sends what is available to the immersion, and then turns the socket on again when the excess power increases. On dull days I can set the car to use 5, 8 or 12 Amps. So there is definitely enough from a normal domestic PV system to charge the car on a reasonably sunny day but you just need to be able to turn the supply off when the sun goes in.

    I've offered the design to several people, but no one has taken it up so far because it is a bit complicated for a non-electronics person to make.

    Dave F

    I'd like to give it a try Dave.
    Been using energysavingexp's idea for almost 6 years.
    Modified it slightly, but for an outlay of just over £20.00 it's been great!:D
    16 Sanyo Hit 250s.4kWp SMA 3.8kWp inverter. SW roof. 28° pitch. Minimal shade. Nov 2011 install. Hybrid car. Ripple Kirk Hill. N.E Lincs Coast.
  • Wobblydeb
    Wobblydeb Posts: 1,046
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    The zappi looks a great bit of kit and I may well be tempted to have one installed. However at the outset of this thread I had hoped to utilise any excess PV output in charging an EV and wonder if it's limited output would necessitate installing a charge point. After all, with a granny cable and 13A supply wouldn't these cope with most of what the Solar panels would charge at!
    Given that I should be able to charge through most of the daylight hours, am I just being too simplistic in my out look here? :o
    No, not too simplistic, and it would work to utilise a good chunk of the electricity you generate. I think the main drawback to the granny cable solution is that it takes much longer to charge. 7-10 hours to fully charge a Leaf, depending upon version. BUT ..... if you are only driving a few miles a day then you will not need a full charge every day. The problem will come if you for instance, go out in the morning and back at lunch time with an empty battery and then want to go out again in the afternoon / evening.

    A dedicated 32A car charger will bring that time down to 4-6 hours. It will always pull 32A though, so will be using grid electricity a lot of the time.

    The Zappi is ahead of a standard charger by being more flexible - so you can get a quicker charge if needed, or alternatively just use exactly what is available from your panels.
    I've got a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel.
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