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Britania Parking PCN - inappropriate display parking ticket ?

24

Comments

  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,584 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Alexa777 wrote: »
    @Quentin
    Thanks for your reply.
    In the Britannia's evidence letter, I noticed below:

    "As the PCN was appealed before a Notice to Keeper had been issued, the only person as ware of the parking charge at this time would be the driver. We have therefore identified the appellant to be the driver."

    Is this a valid assumption ?
    You must strongly challenge that.

    Clearly the driver is allowed to speak to the keeper.
    Armed with the information passed to him by the driver, it is of course entirely reasonable for the keeper to appeal.
  • Alexa777
    Alexa777 Posts: 15 Forumite
    @KeithP
    Thank you very much !
    Glad I found a point that may work !
    But may I ask further if the driver could speak to the keeper, is it become mandatory that the keeper must reveal who is the drive ?
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,584 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Alexa777 wrote: »
    @KeithP
    Thank you very much !
    Glad I found a point that may work !
    But may I ask further if the driver could speak to the keeper, is it become mandatory that the keeper must reveal who is the drive ?
    No, the keeper must not disclose the identity of the driver and has no obligation to do so.
  • Alexa777
    Alexa777 Posts: 15 Forumite
    @Redx
    Thank you, Redx !
    I shall dig further in their evidence and will come back for more advice.
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
    edited 8 August 2018 at 6:38PM
    No

    You cannot be compelled.

    (They will likely continue with their view of course)

    Are you sure about the initial appeal - do you have a copy to check yourself you never revealed the identity of the driver?
  • Unicorn51
    Unicorn51 Posts: 81 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    If I read your post correct, your ticket was displayed in one of your side windows.


    As they are members of the BPA, they failed to adhere to the Code of Practice.


    20.5b In deciding whether a payment ticket has been visibly displayed on a vehicle you must do a thorough visual check of the dashboard and windows.
  • Alexa777
    Alexa777 Posts: 15 Forumite
    @Redx
    I have gathered few points from the previous rebuttals you have advised.
    Do these points make sense ?

    1. Britannia have provided no evidence that they correctly transferred liability from the driver to the registered keeper nor that PoFA was followed correctly.
    2. Failed to provide NTK as no NTK ever received by the keeper.
    3. Britannia is drawing assumptions as to the identity of the driver in this pack, however this is has never established and they have no evidence as to who was driving.
    4. Fail to provide evidence of Landowner Authority.
    5. Signage !!!8211; The specific requirement of display on the dashboard is rather small text compare to the large !!!8220;Pay & Display!!!8221; sign which misleading the understanding of !!!8220;display!!!8221;.

    I am not sure about the fifth point as in my opinion from the photos they provided, the only significant signs are "Pay & Display" without mentioning the ticket MUST be put on the dashboard. Although there are very small text on the top of the ticket machine written this information. (Although it is also on the ticket.....)
    It might help if I could upload the photos but I dont know how....

    Thanks for your time.
  • Alexa777
    Alexa777 Posts: 15 Forumite
    edited 8 August 2018 at 7:28PM
    @Unicorn51
    Yes, it was displayed in one of your side windows !

    This is incrediblily helpful info !
    They photos they provided only show pictures have been taken from different angle of the windscreen.
    Although one angle is right to show the ticket was displayed, the light was too bright to give a clear view.
    Can these photos show they did a thorough check of the windows ?
    My opinion is not as no photos show they have check the passenger seat windows.
    Also does this still apply if they have stated the ticket must be displayed on dashboard/windscreen ?

    Thank you !
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    all of the above

    they have to abide by the BPA CoP and so appear to have failed that point mentioned above

    only POPLA or a judge in court can tell you if that small print on the ticket overrides the larger pay and display signage

    but as the driver paid and displayed as per the signage contract, there was no intention to defraud the PPC and so a judge might decide that its an onerous term and that the drivers intentions were honourable, meaning that the PPC should have cancelled when they were notified that a valid ticket was purchased

    this is known as de-minimis , so google it

    so get all of them points into a 2000 character rebuttal and then post the proposed rebuttal so it can be checked
  • Castle
    Castle Posts: 4,191 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Redx wrote: »
    only POPLA or a judge in court can tell you if that small print on the ticket overrides the larger pay and display signage
    Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking will say it can't.
This discussion has been closed.
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