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  • FIRST POST
    • JamoLew
    • By JamoLew 12th Jul 19, 8:39 AM
    • 122Posts
    • 155Thanks
    JamoLew
    Veggie and Vegan Rant
    • #1
    • 12th Jul 19, 8:39 AM
    Veggie and Vegan Rant 12th Jul 19 at 8:39 AM
    why the double standards ?

    Its a lifestyle choice, its YOUR lifestyle choice - not mine

    Scenario 1:

    a) You invite one round for a meal, they EXPECT you to have produced a suitable meal option for them - cause you knew they were veggie/vegan....right

    b) You go to theirs for a meal ---meat option --- urm nope, no way - you do realise we/I am veggie/vegan

    DOUBLE STANDARDS

    Scenario 2:

    You produce,name and display your veggie/vegan food in a manner that is designed to "trick" meat eaters into buying your product.

    a) sausage
    /ˈsɒsɪdʒ/

    noun
    noun: sausage; plural noun: sausages
    1.
    an item of food in the form of a cylindrical length of minced pork or other meat encased in a skin, typically sold raw to be grilled or fried before eating.

    b) burger
    /ˈbəːɡə/

    noun
    noun: burger; plural noun: burgers
    a flat round cake of minced beef that is fried or grilled and typically served in a bread roll; a hamburger.

    Use you own names and styles - If you dislike meat/animal products - why on earth would you mimic the appearance and use the same names !!

    DOUBLE STANDARDS


    Scenario 3:

    a) a veggie/vegan offers a snack or food item to a meat eater who then comments "that was quite nice". Bring on the smug "ooo you know that was vegan right" reply (or similar)

    b) a meat eater offers a snack or food item to a veggie/vegan who then comments "that was quite nice" - to which the meat eater replies "you realise that was baby cow/lamb etc etc that you just ate" -- I bet the response isnt the same !!

    DOUBLE STANDARDS

    Rant over...thanks
Page 6
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 19th Jul 19, 4:07 PM
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    hollydays
    Obviously I've read it,as I posted it , but you are still paraphrasing the bits that suit you.
    You've said you're not convinced taking away calves is the norm. It is.
    The article also points out that welfare and compassion isn't that simple to define in any case.
    Last edited by hollydays; 19-07-2019 at 4:10 PM.
    • Doom_and_Gloom
    • By Doom_and_Gloom 19th Jul 19, 4:51 PM
    • 3,816 Posts
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    Doom_and_Gloom
    Takmon - parents give their children those products making it seem normal. They are as you say easy to cook but yes a lot of people would rather take themselves away from the product it really is as much as possible.
    My OH goes hunting and the amount of people that say they couldn't take an animals life is unbelievable. A dead animal he's just shot and has to prepare etc is still quite a distance away from an already prepared chicken/beef/pork etc product. Burgers/sausages/nuggets etc are just an even further form from the original alive animal.

    Prinzessilein - over 90% of soy production goes towards animal feed, not humans.
    Over 50% of grain goes on animal feed.
    The above amount would feed over 6 billion people! Instead they are fed to animals.
    So tofu and other like products are still less damaging than animal products.
    Also soya as I have said before can and should be grown in the UK. It would be better for everyone.
    Other resources go into making animal products such as water which is an issue that is starting to become bigger. Some places are so close to day zero. We all have to be aware of water. Animal products take more water as a secondary form of food than plants as a direct form of food.
    Animal husbandry can even contaminate water (slurry run off).
    No matter the advances in technology or so called small places doing it 'ethically it is still not going to be ethically sound.

    That is without the fact that it is speciesist to use one animal for they by product or take their life just because they are 'insert animal of choice' instead of a cat/dog/other animal regarded as a pet.

    If you eat an animal you are still causing an animal to have their life cut short unnecessarily.
    Those that have their by products taken are kept in places that don't have a lot of space (most free range chickens don't manage to get outside and I remember egg packets recently stated about them being laid by hens temporarily housed in barns for 'their welfare'), in the case of dairy cows they are forced to be pregnant over and over to produce milk and when they aren't profitable anymore they are killed many years before they can live naturally. Etc with other animal products. Lives are forced a certain way while alive and always they are killed earlier than their natural life span can be.
    How is that possible when you say you are an animal lover? That isn't just aimed at you but others also. It doesn't compute.
    I am a vegan woman. My OH is a lovely omni guy
    • Mr_Singleton
    • By Mr_Singleton 19th Jul 19, 8:08 PM
    • 1,427 Posts
    • 2,356 Thanks
    Mr_Singleton
    Yet more sickening Vegan BS propaganda. On a phone so will have to be brief....

    Where do you get the 90%+ soya being feed to livestock??? WWF has a figure of 70%.

    Feeding soya to cows produces more milk that soya "nutwater" ie. its more efficient to feed it to cows to turn into milk rather than nutwater. Go have a read.... https://sustainablefoodtrust.org/articles/dairy-cows-livestock-behind-growth-soya-south-america/

    Your water rant...
    From The Guardian..."IME state that to produce 1kg of meat requires between 5,000 and 20,000 litres of water whereas to produce 1kg of wheat requires between 500 and 4,000 litres of water."
    So it takes 5 times more water to produce the Beef YET 1kg of beef contains around 2000kcals where as say a kg of vegan cabbage only contains 125kcals. You do the maths!

    Lots of cultures do eat dog/cat etc...... what's your point caller?
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 19th Jul 19, 9:17 PM
    • 17,510 Posts
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    hollydays
    .... vegan cabbage..
    Mr Singleton " I never eat vegan food, me"
    Last edited by hollydays; 19-07-2019 at 9:55 PM.
    • JamoLew
    • By JamoLew 20th Jul 19, 6:33 AM
    • 122 Posts
    • 155 Thanks
    JamoLew
    Apologies for lack of response, have been away all week:

    I
    Did you start this thread because you went to a friends house and they had cooked you something with quorn in it?
    Originally posted by Norman Castle
    pretty much

    So tell us the story about the meal you tried to cook for your vegetarian friends where you went to a lot of trouble?
    Originally posted by hollydays
    It "started" on the May Bank Holiday when I arranged a bbq at mine for our team at work (10 people)
    My work "brother" Jim (not his real name) is a part time vegetarian, we are at each others houses for food/drink etc at least once a week, so I am used to preparing food for his requirements and always have a variety available for him depending on his mood.
    I asked him if he would be veggie or meat for the bbq to which he replied veggie -- no problem.
    We have a reasonably new member of staff Jane (not her real name) who is a vegan. So I asked her that as Jim was eating veggie would that food be ok for her and if she had any particular "needs". No the veggie stuff wouldn't be good enough, she needed this and that from here and there - no problem for a one off I figured. Oh and dont forget, I cant cook "her" food with my food and I cant use the same implements etc etc - It's a one off so I complied

    Fast forward some weeks and Jane decides to host a bbq - no asking if we had any particular requirements etc but anticipating potential "issues" some of us took along our own food -- meat burgers, sausages, dairy cheese etc etc.

    Arrived and was met by Jane who immediately stated "I've prepared everything as vegan, so you can all enjoy it" to which 8 of us all looked at each other and Jim just shrugged.

    No worries we said, we have brought some none vegan food for us to which the reply was long the lines of "well I don't know how you are going to cook it because you aren't using any of my appliances"

    I (and apparently some of my colleagues) don't like vegan food - I don't like the taste, I don't like the texture, so half of us left. The next day, the other half stated they wished they had as well.

    Needless to say, no one will be inviting Jane around again, nor will we be expecting an invite from her - any group events involving food willl have to be at a restaurant or similar I think
    • hugheskevi
    • By hugheskevi 20th Jul 19, 7:05 AM
    • 2,312 Posts
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    hugheskevi
    My work "brother" Jim (not his real name) is a part time vegetarian,
    So an omnivore then

    So I asked her that as Jim was eating veggie would that food be ok for her and if she had any particular "needs"
    I wouldn't expect vegetarian food to be suitable for a vegan. In the food, I'd expect eggs and milk, and bakery products may well contain milk. She may have been a little frustrated by this question, as although the definition of vegan is pretty straightforward, many seem to be confused by what 'no animal products' means.

    No the veggie stuff wouldn't be good enough, she needed this and that from here and there
    It would have been easier for her to bring her own food, partly to avoid any possible confusion, but primarily so as not to put the host to any trouble. BBQs are ideal for that, other meals not so much.

    I cant cook "her" food with my food and I cant use the same implements etc etc - It's a one off so I complied
    Subject to allergies, I think that is a step too far. There are no animal welfare, environmental or health issues with using the same grill and wiped down implements which could have have the slightest contamination.

    Having said that, I've found BBQ hosts usually want to go far further than I'd consider necessary, and clean everything really carefully for vegan guests.

    anticipating potential "issues" some of us took along our own food -- meat burgers, sausages, dairy cheese etc etc.
    That could at worst be perceived as rude (unless guests were invited to bring their own food), and at best is running a high risk of creating a difficult situation knowing that a vegan is hosting the BBQ.

    No worries we said, we have brought some none vegan food for us to which the reply was long the lines of "well I don't know how you are going to cook it because you aren't using any of my appliances"
    Given your experience at the BBQ you hosted, this response couldn't have come as a surprise? Even without the previous BBQ, such a response was not unlikely.

    I (and apparently some of my colleagues) don't like vegan food - I don't like the taste, I don't like the texture, so half of us left.
    Without even trying food ('vegan food' covers an enormous range of food, and if you eat meat with every meal your level of meat consumption will be far too high to be healthy), I'd consider this falls into it being very rude to question the food provision of the host, in the same way as if a vegan guest started to lecture a host about their meat choices.

    It does sound as if there is a lot of inflexibility on both sides.
    Last edited by hugheskevi; 20-07-2019 at 9:59 AM.
    • Norman Castle
    • By Norman Castle 20th Jul 19, 7:15 AM
    • 8,436 Posts
    • 7,281 Thanks
    Norman Castle

    I (and apparently some of my colleagues) don't like vegan food - I don't like the taste, I don't like the texture, so half of us left. The next day, the other half stated they wished they had as well.
    Originally posted by JamoLew
    It appears that you don't like Janes "vegan food" which is fair enough although I suspect its the meat substitute part of the meal you dislike which is often a vegans way of accommodating meat eaters. I don't enjoy barbecues but have never left one because I can't eat what I want. Aren't they a social event?
    Don't harass a hippie. You'll get bad karma.

    Never trust a newbie with a rtb tale.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 20th Jul 19, 7:30 AM
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    hollydays
    I'm not massively keen on barbecues either, they seem to be a lot of effort for not a great outcome.

    Not sure it could be any worse than one I went to, cooking done by the man of the house who never usually cooked.
    Cheap wafer thin burgers burnt to a crisp. Cheap sausages( Lloyd's) , pieces of pork, burnt.
    Piles of this meat blackened dry meat constantly piled onto my plate, like " it's meat it's delicious" he's urged on by his Father who also has never cooked , to be careful to cook the burgers thoroughly( oh yes they were thoroughly cooked) as they might cause food poisoning .
    I don't recall much veg or salad , but I ate it without complaint.

    Sometime later I was out for a meal with some of them.
    That week I'd gone out for a lot of meals , and was tired of eating meat so ordered a vegetarian meal . This guy actually laughed , he couldn't comprehend someone wouldnt eat meat in a restaurant.
    There are some real dinosaurs about .

    Were there no nice salads with this vegan food?
    Last edited by hollydays; 20-07-2019 at 8:12 AM.
    • slashlover
    • By slashlover 20th Jul 19, 12:01 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 54 Thanks
    slashlover
    I (and apparently some of my colleagues) don't like vegan food - I don't like the taste, I don't like the texture, so half of us left. The next day, the other half stated they wished they had as well.
    Originally posted by JamoLew
    Personally, I love baked potatoes and sweetcorn done on the BBQ.

    Did you even try the food or just decide you didn't like it?

    If you had arrived and Jane had said she had some lovely goat/kangaroo/alligator meat for the BBQ would you have eaten it or is it your lifestyle choice not to eat it?
    • z1a
    • By z1a 20th Jul 19, 2:39 PM
    • 2,221 Posts
    • 2,308 Thanks
    z1a

    If you had arrived and Jane had said she had some lovely goat/kangaroo/alligator meat for the BBQ would you have eaten it or is it your lifestyle choice not to eat it?
    Originally posted by slashlover
    Wouldn't any meat eater eat those?
    • LilElvis
    • By LilElvis 20th Jul 19, 3:47 PM
    • 4,478 Posts
    • 11,712 Thanks
    LilElvis
    Wouldn't any meat eater eat those?
    Originally posted by z1a
    I would! Lidl sell kangaroo steak on occasion and my local South African shop has crocodile (similar to alligator). Next door neighbour makes an awesome goat curry. I'll happily try pretty much anything - though I did turn down warthog as they're impossibly cute
    • LilElvis
    • By LilElvis 20th Jul 19, 4:04 PM
    • 4,478 Posts
    • 11,712 Thanks
    LilElvis
    I'm not massively keen on barbecues either, they seem to be a lot of effort for not a great outcome.

    Not sure it could be any worse than one I went to, cooking done by the man of the house who never usually cooked.
    Cheap wafer thin burgers burnt to a crisp. Cheap sausages( Lloyd's) , pieces of pork, burnt.
    Piles of this meat blackened dry meat constantly piled onto my plate, like " it's meat it's delicious" he's urged on by his Father who also has never cooked , to be careful to cook the burgers thoroughly( oh yes they were thoroughly cooked) as they might cause food poisoning .
    I don't recall much veg or salad , but I ate it without complaint.

    Sometime later I was out for a meal with some of them.
    That week I'd gone out for a lot of meals , and was tired of eating meat so ordered a vegetarian meal . This guy actually laughed , he couldn't comprehend someone wouldnt eat meat in a restaurant.
    There are some real dinosaurs about .

    Were there no nice salads with this vegan food?
    Originally posted by hollydays
    I would invite you to mine for a barbecue next weekend, but my parents are coming and they're extremely hard work! Marinated squid with a burned corn salsa and chimichurri marinated steak. For "sides" I'm going to make a Caesar salad (Dad's favourite), a fennel, peach and celeriac slaw, a cucumber, feta and dill salad and some sort of potato product yet to be decided. During the summer we barbecue most days - I make sides that last 2 or 3 days so I just need to make one of those a day in addition to sorting out the meat/ fish element.

    I still have fond memories of childhood beach barbecues in Devon after the other holidaymakers had left for the day. Dad would get the portable barbecue out of the car boot (clever thing collapsed into a metal "briefcase" thing) and the cooler box. Even those awful 1970s Birdseye carpet tile burgers tasted awesome sat on a deserted beach at sunset.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 20th Jul 19, 5:20 PM
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    hollydays
    Wouldn't any meat eater eat those?
    Originally posted by z1a
    Ha ha, there are a lot of people won't eat anything that wasn't eaten in the 1940s, and thats even the younger ones.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 20th Jul 19, 5:23 PM
    • 17,510 Posts
    • 13,636 Thanks
    hollydays
    I would invite you to mine for a barbecue next weekend, but my parents are coming and they're extremely hard work! Marinated squid with a burned corn salsa and chimichurri marinated steak. For "sides" I'm going to make a Caesar salad (Dad's favourite), a fennel, peach and celeriac slaw, a cucumber, feta and dill salad and some sort of potato product yet to be decided. During the summer we barbecue most days - I make sides that last 2 or 3 days so I just need to make one of those a day in addition to sorting out the meat/ fish element.

    I still have fond memories of childhood beach barbecues in Devon after the other holidaymakers had left for the day. Dad would get the portable barbecue out of the car boot (clever thing collapsed into a metal "briefcase" thing) and the cooler box. Even those awful 1970s Birdseye carpet tile burgers tasted awesome sat on a deserted beach at sunset.
    Originally posted by LilElvis
    Too kind, just as well I'm out of the country That sounds like real food.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 20th Jul 19, 5:26 PM
    • 17,510 Posts
    • 13,636 Thanks
    hollydays
    I would invite you to mine for a barbecue next weekend, but my parents are coming and they're extremely hard work! Marinated squid with a burned corn salsa and chimichurri marinated steak. For "sides" I'm going to make a Caesar salad (Dad's favourite), a fennel, peach and celeriac slaw, a cucumber, feta and dill salad and some sort of potato product yet to be decided. During the summer we barbecue most days - I make sides that last 2 or 3 days so I just need to make one of those a day in addition to sorting out the meat/ fish element.

    I still have fond memories of childhood beach barbecues in Devon after the other holidaymakers had left for the day. Dad would get the portable barbecue out of the car boot (clever thing collapsed into a metal "briefcase" thing) and the cooler box. Even those awful 1970s Birdseye carpet tile burgers tasted awesome sat on a deserted beach at sunset.
    Originally posted by LilElvis
    Too kind, just as well I'm out of the country That sounds like real food.I've just bought some fennel and celeriac today, have never used celeriac before so wasn't sure what to do with it.
    Last edited by hollydays; 20-07-2019 at 5:29 PM.
    • LilElvis
    • By LilElvis 20th Jul 19, 8:11 PM
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    • 11,712 Thanks
    LilElvis
    Too kind, just as well I'm out of the country That sounds like real food.I've just bought some fennel and celeriac today, have never used celeriac before so wasn't sure what to do with it.
    Originally posted by hollydays
    You can eat it grated or cut into matchsticks in a slaw, boil and mash it (I sometimes do it 50/50 with potato) or do a gratin/ dauphinoise as you would potato. Very versatile veg - though not the prettiest.

    My slaw is a mix of fennel, celeriac, red onion and peaches with a dressing that has mayo, lemon zest and juice, creamed horseradish and a good wallop of hot sauce.

    I'm assuming you're back in Portugal again. Lucky you!
    • onwards&upwards
    • By onwards&upwards 26th Jul 19, 12:30 AM
    • 860 Posts
    • 1,722 Thanks
    onwards&upwards




    It does sound as if there is a lot of inflexibility on both sides.
    Originally posted by hugheskevi
    You donít mean you believe that story?
    • hugheskevi
    • By hugheskevi 26th Jul 19, 7:44 AM
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    hugheskevi
    You don’t mean you believe that story?
    There is usually an original grain of truth in these stories, which then gets misrepresented along with bias, prejudice and misunderstanding

    I find that most threads about vegans/vegetarians, cyclists, animal welfare supporters, runners, and so on usually take the form of a rant about how selfish the group is, how dogmatic and inflexible they are, and as the thread progresses all you see is a dogmatic and inflexible approach from those making ill-informed assertions about the group. This thread doesn't seem any different.

    There is a thread over on the pensions board about air-travel and the environment at the moment. It is a much more mature discussion, but a common attitude is still along the lines of what difference can the actions of a single person make, so why bother making any change to lifestyle?

    You really can see with such attitudes why a nanny-state approach is necessary in so many areas. Even with all the facts readily available, the majority of the population will not make any change to their lifestyle until forced to by legislation or taxation, and is hostile to those that do. Hopefully the next generation is rather more proactive, and effects change proactively rather than being forced to.
    • DevilsAdvocate1
    • By DevilsAdvocate1 13th Aug 19, 12:24 PM
    • 1,687 Posts
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    DevilsAdvocate1
    Oh yes, the elephant in the room that vegans donít like talking about...... B12.
    Originally posted by Mr_Singleton

    I have 3 friends who a vegan and two of them have Pernicious Anemia which I believe is caused by a lack of vitamin B12. They have injections every few months. I've often wondered where the B12 for the injections comes from.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 13th Aug 19, 10:39 PM
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    hollydays
    I have 3 friends who a vegan and two of them have Pernicious Anemia which I believe is caused by a lack of vitamin B12. They have injections every few months. I've often wondered where the B12 for the injections comes from.
    Originally posted by DevilsAdvocate1
    Pernicious anaemia isn't diet related.
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