Capability Hearing

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  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179
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    I doubt very much though that a union would be prepared to help someone who only joined that union to get help for an existing/ongoing matter

    Agree probably not something that will work for the current situation
  • eamon
    eamon Posts: 2,319
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    The cynic in me thinks that you are being set up to fail, effectively managed out the door. Being less cynical maybe they are trying to make you a better employee. I somehow doubt that. You are an adult and must know you own capabilities given that you have been in the oil business for 17 years. Thats why I'm suspicious of improvement plans being dumped on established long serving employees, its insulting and demeaning. It would be different if it was a basic thing e.g improving time keeping.


    So what can you do? Arm yourself with all the HR information that you can find that relate to Equality, Harrassment, Performance etc. Read and understand your employers policies and procedures. Its an informal meeting with your manager & HR but heed this, HR work for your employer and will be on their side not yours. At the start of the meeting be quite clear in that you will not be agreeing or signing anything until you have had the opportunity to think.


    If you do agree to an improvement plan. Make HR and your manager work for it as well, if you need extra training/support/mentoring for any task, say so, get it in writing, if there are no timescales/targets for any tasks then get HR and your manager to prioritise which tasks are more important (everything can't be equal).

    Assuming that you want to stay then you need to be mentally tough to stick it out. Lastly if you have skills that other firms use then job hunt if none of the above works for you.
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179
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    eamon wrote: »
    The cynic in me thinks that you are being set up to fail, effectively managed out the door. Being less cynical maybe they are trying to make you a better employee. I somehow doubt that. You are an adult and must know you own capabilities given that you have been in the oil business for 17 years. Thats why I'm suspicious of improvement plans being dumped on established long serving employees, its insulting and demeaning. It would be different if it was a basic thing e.g improving time keeping.


    So what can you do? Arm yourself with all the HR information that you can find that relate to Equality, Harrassment, Performance etc. Read and understand your employers policies and procedures. Its an informal meeting with your manager & HR but heed this, HR work for your employer and will be on their side not yours. At the start of the meeting be quite clear in that you will not be agreeing or signing anything until you have had the opportunity to think.


    If you do agree to an improvement plan. Make HR and your manager work for it as well, if you need extra training/support/mentoring for any task, say so, get it in writing, if there are no timescales/targets for any tasks then get HR and your manager to prioritise which tasks are more important (everything can't be equal).

    Assuming that you want to stay then you need to be mentally tough to stick it out. Lastly if you have skills that other firms use then job hunt if none of the above works for you.

    Exactly Eamon, I actually feel humiliated, and in a way looks like I have been cunningly cornered. If not for my Middle Eastern assignment, by now I may have grown to two higher levels in position. However, my feeling is that the management didn't expect me to return in two years as many who go on such assignments become comfortable with the luxury there and don't return particularly if you have an asian background..

    Unfortunately the industry saw its worst ever recession during this period, so by the time I returned, the UK centre became very competetive and I was conveniently ignored despite requesting to be put in some challenging projects.

    I don't deny the fact that I'm not technologically able as some of the people on the floor however my record pre-middle east time clearly will show my skills and contribution to the company.

    Anyway the reality now is I'm facing a skill set issue, although I have the confidence and determination to face the PIP, I'm not sure about the hurdles that may be put on me during this process. For instance, the first phase is set for 4 weeks with another 4 weeks period to finish. And within this 4 weeks I need to train, schedule my work and have review meetings etc everything to prove myself which from my experience can be a daunting exercise. And if they want there will be plenty of opportunities for them to pick on me and say I'm not good enough. This is what worries more, and I certainly don't want to be dismissed on those grounds.

    I would rather resign with some dignity and self respect, but would they give me a good reference for my next job is my other concern. I'm totally confused and lost now. Sadly, on top of all this the current climate is such that there isn't much openings anywhere...
  • lulu650
    lulu650 Posts: 1,158
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    palasmy wrote: »
    ........I would rather resign with some dignity and self respect, but would they give me a good reference for my next job is my other concern. I'm totally confused and lost now........
    Then, surely, it would be in your interest to find out what a settlement agreement entails before Friday's meeting?
    Saving money right, left and centre
  • eamon
    eamon Posts: 2,319
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    Now I understand more.



    I'm not convinced that you want to stay there and fight for your job and its ok to feel that way, maybe your time there is up and your face no longer fits. You hinted at a possible racist attitude in your workplace. Maybe that is true but its hard & expensive to prove and without the support of a union even more difficult. As to how to get to leave with your head held high and hopefully some money plus a good reference, I don't know how to do that.



    Are you able to talk to any work colleagues re your fears and get soundings how possible similar events panned out in the past. Have you considered posting an abridged version in the board above this one? It attracts some very wise and experienced posters that could advise better than me.
  • sangie595
    sangie595 Posts: 6,092 Forumite
    I have no doubt this comment won't be liked, but it should be said. There's an awful lot of words here for a simple situation. You don't like the work that your employer has given you, you think you're better than that, so as a result you haven't bothered to work very hard. And before you bite my head off- you have actually said all of that. So why is it now a surprise that the employer is managing your performance? There's no evidence of discrimination. There's no evidence this has anything to do with anything other than your not working very hard because you don't want to do the work the employer has given you over the last two years.

    When people find that their work is no longer a challenge, they find another job - not stop working! It is probably now too late to recover this situation though. But if you wish to do so, then you need to double down on work, and not just for the next few weeks. You realise that the jobs market isn't good, and no matter what they might offer, it won't last long if you don't get another job.

    If, on the other hand, you have chosen to go, then you should place getting a good reference agreed with them at the centre of any deal. It's quite common to ask for an agreed reference. And references are worth more than money - money doesn't get you through recruitment, and references do!

    One last thing. I have to say that it's entirely likely that this was never about giving you the push and everything to do with a kick up the posterior region! I base that on two things. Firstly, they have let you get away with reduced performance for much longer than many employers would have, if this had been the situation for as long as you indicate. It sounds more like they were giving your a chances to settle into the new role and in the UK, and are now realising that won't happen if they do nothing. Secondly, if your managers and his managers were attempting to push you out, the HR person would have been in the room from the beginning, and they would have looked at all the options long before they spoke to you. The fact they weren't prepared for your question does suggest that you leaving wasn't the purpose of the PIP.
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179
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    lulu650 wrote: »
    Then, surely, it would be in your interest to find out what a settlement agreement entails before Friday's meeting?

    I can only find such details during the Friday meeting with HR and IF there will be an SA offered..
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179
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    eamon wrote: »
    Now I understand more.



    I'm not convinced that you want to stay there and fight for your job and its ok to feel that way, maybe your time there is up and your face no longer fits. You hinted at a possible racist attitude in your workplace. Maybe that is true but its hard & expensive to prove and without the support of a union even more difficult. As to how to get to leave with your head held high and hopefully some money plus a good reference, I don't know how to do that.



    Are you able to talk to any work colleagues re your fears and get soundings how possible similar events panned out in the past. Have you considered posting an abridged version in the board above this one? It attracts some very wise and experienced posters that could advise better than me.

    I have lost faith and trust with anyone there given the experience I have had so far, may be I'm being too hard but that's how I'm let to feel now.

    You mentioned about a different board to this one where I can post this, please can you give me a link

    Thanks
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179
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    sangie595 wrote: »
    I have no doubt this comment won't be liked, but it should be said. There's an awful lot of words here for a simple situation. You don't like the work that your employer has given you, you think you're better than that, so as a result you haven't bothered to work very hard. And before you bite my head off- you have actually said all of that. So why is it now a surprise that the employer is managing your performance? There's no evidence of discrimination. There's no evidence this has anything to do with anything other than your not working very hard because you don't want to do the work the employer has given you over the last two years.

    When people find that their work is no longer a challenge, they find another job - not stop working! It is probably now too late to recover this situation though. But if you wish to do so, then you need to double down on work, and not just for the next few weeks. You realise that the jobs market isn't good, and no matter what they might offer, it won't last long if you don't get another job.

    If, on the other hand, you have chosen to go, then you should place getting a good reference agreed with them at the centre of any deal. It's quite common to ask for an agreed reference. And references are worth more than money - money doesn't get you through recruitment, and references do!

    One last thing. I have to say that it's entirely likely that this was never about giving you the push and everything to do with a kick up the posterior region! I base that on two things. Firstly, they have let you get away with reduced performance for much longer than many employers would have, if this had been the situation for as long as you indicate. It sounds more like they were giving your a chances to settle into the new role and in the UK, and are now realising that won't happen if they do nothing. Secondly, if your managers and his managers were attempting to push you out, the HR person would have been in the room from the beginning, and they would have looked at all the options long before they spoke to you. The fact they weren't prepared for your question does suggest that you leaving wasn't the purpose of the PIP.

    You have a very valid point and this is how the management would view this whole episode. The projects I have worked on in the last two years have been very successful as we have been awarded better projects with better revenue and technical objectives than the ones we started with. This is purely a result of our work, a team effort but I had an integral part to play. The issue however is, with the kind of projects that is being done in the company the projects our team does don’t stand a chance. It is virtually impossible to come up with anything innovative or technically new on an old dataset, which is a known truth and yet our quarterly reviews were built in comparison to other projects which I felt was unfair and so is everybody else views.

    I feel the company is struggling to maintain its market share as a leader in the highly competitive environment that prevails today and they are unable to keep the workforce as before with limited number of projects. And they can’t do another redundancy program as they had one only recently, this was all planned well in advance with a very able HR team, that they laid a road with such new reviews and appraisal systems that they can use to their advantage as and when it is required.

    The question I have is why do they have to pick me when there are others who are more eligible for a redundancy. Plus branding me as incapable isn't fair at all is my feeling...
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179
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    Good Morning all

    Today I will have the meeting with my Manager and the HR. All your comments and reviews has been very helpful to bring in some clarity, I will approach this meeting with caution blended with positiveness. I think with amount of experience I have had, it is probably worth giving the company that benefit of doubt that they may actually be interested in my development and want to keep me.

    Will update later today with progress..


    Thanks
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