Tribunal Appeal Refused

Messed_Up_Kelly · 2 March 2017 at 7:24PM

I wanted to share my experiences as I had found helpful advice on this and other forums.

Tribunal appeal refused, a total of 2 points awarded for Daily Living, 'Washing and Bathing.'

I wanted to share my experiences as someone who has endured complex mental health difficulties for a number of years and who also has some physical health problems.

First off, I had a DWP Representative present, they were there to ensure my secret recording of my ATOS Assessment was not used as evidence, they said nothing else other than something in the beginning about not agreeing with using this evidence as I did not have permission to make a recording. I never expect it to be used, I was aware always as per Tribunal papers it was at the discretion of the judge and this I accept.

My ATOS Assessment was flawed, the person assessing me was unprofessional, using language unsuitable and despite a complaint with ATOS, they deemed they did no wrong. They did ask me to provide a recording for them to investigate further, which I sent signed for, it was signed for by ATOS the next day, but they have never responded.

I was an emotional wreck at my Tribunal, having to attend alone. I couldn't get any representation and had no friends or family who could attend with me.

I am certain points were still missing from 'Engaging with Others Face to Face' as whilst I engaged today in person and answered questions I spent the majority of the time crying and shaking due to my emotional state of mind. So even though I experienced overwhelming psychological distress, I got 0 points.

I have no doubt not having someone to support me, did not help. However, there was endless paper evidence.

I admit I am somewhat taken aback as I expected the Standard Rate of Daily Living, if not the same for Mobility.

Of course they can only use evidence from before the decision date, so cannot take into account my recent breakdown and referral back to mental health services or the self neglect / self harm and new medications prescribed.

I am tempted to upload the recording to YouTube as I cannot be identified by it, so others can judge for themselves if my assessment was flawed. I do not care about the legal implications of doing this.

I know what I am feeling now, but I am desperately trying to not react to this, trying not to OD or think of self-harming, but I feel so, so, I just don't know what I feel apart from very alone.

I apologise if none of this makes sense, I just needed to write something.

Bogalot · 2 March 2017 at 7:33PM

If you are feeling suicidal pleas contact your crisis team, or the Samaritans. Thrir number is 116123.

I can understand the temptation to upload the recording to YouTube, but keep in mind that once something is on the internet you cannot take it back. There could also be implications on broadcasting it without the assessor's consent. I would strongly suggest against this course of action.

tazwhoever · 2 March 2017 at 7:51PM

What was the purpose of doing secret recording? Can it be used against ATOS or used in tribunal? I thought you have to tell ATOS if you want assessment oral recorded.

Alice_Holt · 2 March 2017 at 8:22PM

I'm sorry you had such an awful assessment and a poor tribunal.

Please take care of yourself.
Can I suggest you book an appointment with your GP

Best wishes.

rockingbilly · 2 March 2017 at 8:30PM

You did yourself no favours by telling ATOS/DWP that you had recorded the assessment secretly.
You knew what the rules were as regards recording and I presume you just ignored them.
With the fact that you had carried this out knowing what the penalties were if you were found out and the Tribunal being informed, your character and credibility were put in question by the tribunal. I doubt that any judge would have much sympathy for you.

Tommo1980 · 2 March 2017 at 9:05PM

Maybe not but perhaps you could show a little.

Messed_Up_Kelly · 2 March 2017 at 10:13PM

Bogalot wrote: »

If you are feeling suicidal pleas contact your crisis team, or the Samaritans. Thrir number is 116123.

I can understand the temptation to upload the recording to YouTube, but keep in mind that once something is on the internet you cannot take it back. There could also be implications on broadcasting it without the assessor's consent. I would strongly suggest against this course of action.

I do agree about the upload, which is probably why I have done nothing with yet. I am not a malicious person so more than likely I will destroy it, I am just angry, but perhaps more with myself than anything.

I can't contact the crisis team since I am not longer under the community mental health team, I can however contact another self help telephone support group who I have used before. I think I will give them a call this evening.

tazwhoever wrote: »

What was the purpose of doing secret recording? Can it be used against ATOS or used in tribunal? I thought you have to tell ATOS if you want assessment oral recorded.

The purpose was because I have problems with my short term memory due to medication side effects and I wanted to listen back to what happened. I also had 8 days notice of my assessment and didn't have anyone who could attend with me. It was nigh on impossible to afford to buy two tape recorders myself to record the assessment with their permission.

It just so happened the ATOS Assessment was flawed, and thus I was able to challenge things that did / didn't happen. ATOS make it almost impossible for someone to record their assessment with permission following their rules!

Alice_Holt wrote: »

I'm sorry you had such an awful assessment and a poor tribunal.

Please take care of yourself.

Can I suggest you book an appointment with your GP

Best wishes.

Thank you Alice and also for many of your contributions here, I have often read your advice and replies to others and found them very helpful.

rockingbilly wrote: »

You did yourself no favours by telling ATOS/DWP that you had recorded the assessment secretly.

You knew what the rules were as regards recording and I presume you just ignored them.

With the fact that you had carried this out knowing what the penalties were if you were found out and the Tribunal being informed, your character and credibility were put in question by the tribunal. I doubt that any judge would have much sympathy for you.

Yes, I ignored the rules, did I have sufficient time in 8 days to get suitable recording equipment to record the assessment, no I didn't. I had to change my initial appointment ATOS gave me due to a hospital appointment clash, thus using up my one 'change' and financially I could not afford to purchase the much needed recording equipment.

I suspect I am not the first, nor last to secretly record an assessment with the DWP.

Ask yourself this why are there different rules for recording an ESA Assessment compared to a PIP Assessment done by ATOS? For ESA, they WILL and CAN provide equipment but won't for PIP Assessments? This is a question (when I feel up to it) to put to my MP. I see no difference between two kinds of assessments whatever benefits they are for, and feel the rules the DWP have should be the same for all benefits.

I personally informed the Tribunal myself of the recordings, I sent copies to the Courts, the DWP and ATOS, they certainly didn't find out accidentally!

Ames · 2 March 2017 at 10:22PM

Who told you you can't access the crisis team if you're not under CMHT? Obviously it varies by area, but I've never heard of the crisis team only being available to those under CMHT, in fact when I tried to access my crisis team I was told I shouldn't have because I was under CMHT.

Messed_Up_Kelly · 2 March 2017 at 11:27PM

Ames wrote: »

Who told you you can't access the crisis team if you're not under CMHT? Obviously it varies by area, but I've never heard of the crisis team only being available to those under CMHT, in fact when I tried to access my crisis team I was told I shouldn't have because I was under CMHT.

It's been like that in my area for a while now, they only take calls from those currently under the CMHT, everyone else is expected to present at A&E in Crisis to see the RAID Team, or self refer to SPOA. Both of which I encountered last year and both were just poorly organised services.

When I was under the CMHT for 4 years, we could contact both our CPN during the day and the Crisis Team out of hours, evenings, weekends etc.

MHOWARD_2 · 2 March 2017 at 11:27PM

rockingbilly wrote: »

You did yourself no favours by telling ATOS/DWP that you had recorded the assessment secretly.
You knew what the rules were as regards recording and I presume you just ignored them.
With the fact that you had carried this out knowing what the penalties were if you were found out and the Tribunal being informed, your character and credibility were put in question by the tribunal. I doubt that any judge would have much sympathy for you.

I read these forums a fair bit but rarely contribute, as I have nothing constructive to add. I wish you felt the same, its a shame there are people who like to kick people when they are down. You seem to just be a nasty piece of work.

rockingbilly · 3 March 2017 at 12:54AM

Messed_Up_Kelly wrote: »

.

Yes, I ignored the rules, did I have sufficient time in 8 days to get suitable recording equipment to record the assessment, no I didn't. I had to change my initial appointment ATOS gave me due to a hospital appointment clash, thus using up my one 'change' and financially I could not afford to purchase the much needed recording equipment.

I suspect I am not the first, nor last to secretly record an assessment with the DWP.

Ask yourself this why are there different rules for recording an ESA Assessment compared to a PIP Assessment done by ATOS? For ESA, they WILL and CAN provide equipment but won't for PIP Assessments? This is a question (when I feel up to it) to put to my MP. I see no difference between two kinds of assessments whatever benefits they are for, and feel the rules the DWP have should be the same for all benefits.

I personally informed the Tribunal myself of the recordings, I sent copies to the Courts, the DWP and ATOS, they certainly didn't find out accidentally!

I'm sorry for what has happened, but telling the DWP and ATOS that you flouted the rules for whatever reason was not the wisest of moves.
To be honest I have had many assessments in my time both for ESA and DLA and not one of them was recorded. Personally I just couldn't be ars*d. My attitude is that if the DWP or the assessor want to make up stories about what I say or don't say, the place to argue it is at a Tribunal. Your evidence would be given as much weight as any DWP assessment does without the need for this cloak and dagger stuff.
As for why these rules exist and why they are different for ESA & PIP only those people at the DWP know that answer.
What you have to remember that these assessments are nothing but opinion and conjecture. They are about on the same level legally as what my neighbours opinions of me are.

Tribunal Appeal Refused

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