Help! Father badly scammed
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Benbythesea wrote: »They also claimed that my father's IFA was involved too.Benbythesea wrote: »They successfully isolated my father and he did what they wanted like he was in a Derren Brown show.Benbythesea wrote: »....said he wanted to make a transfer to a bank in Abu Dhabi for £240K.Benbythesea wrote: »The IFA did simply comply with my father's wishes and cashed-in his SIPP. I would argue that little if any due diligence was conducted by the company.Benbythesea wrote: »Also when they cashed in the Sipp they only applied a basic 20% of tax.0
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And two more in quick succession? I am utterly flummoxed as to how this did not lead to his account being frozen subject to investigation.0
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I suspect the criminals had found out a lot about your father before making their move. The fact that he had a SIPP for instance. Presumably at his age the pension was in payment and it should have been impossible to withdraw the lot? It is all very well to be critical after the event but surely there were enough clues for the bank and IFA to be suspicious, the Abu Dhabi bank the obvious red flag.0
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Is anyone familiar with the recent Berkeley Burke v FOS ruling? Not exactly the same but it was found that even executor-only SIPP providers should ensure that their clients are not being scammed . I think if the victim in this case is found to have been poorly advised then I think it could be argued that my father has a complaint.
It is an outsiders chance - it's important you start to come to terms with the fact the money is most likely gone. There are thousands of rulings on very similar cases to this and the vast majority have decided in the banks favour so far. As it stands banks do not need to do a lot to prevent these frauds.
But that shouldn't stop you from pursuing the complaints route to find out exactly where you stand. In situations like this you obviously need to pursue every possible end that you can.0 -
As 'they' groomed the father over several days they probably extracted much of the information from him without him being aware of what was happening.
Con men can be very persuasive and cunning.0 -
As 'they' groomed the father over several days they probably extracted much of the information from him without him being aware of what was happening.
Con men can be very persuasive and cunning.
#casualsexismcutsbothways0 -
Benbythesea wrote: »For example my father went in and said he wanted to make a transfer to a bank in Abu Dhabi for £240K.
Also you have to jump through hoops to open an account there, eg submit loads of personal info such as certified passport copies as well as letters from employer (based on my own experience), so if the British Police/ authorities were to get in touch with their Emirati counterparts - which they should, given the sums involved - then there's a good chance the fraudsters can be caught if they're still in UAE and/or their bank accounts are still live. Of course If they've fled the country that becomes difficult but maybe Interpol could become involved at that stage if they know the Nationality/passport numbers of those involved.0 -
I am so sorry to hear that. But he's not the only one. My lovely elderly neighbour was also the victim of fraud, she personally went on the first day to Thomas Cook to withdraw £4000 worth of euros, and then to the post office to withdraw £4000 of euros, all of which she then passed on to a man on a bike - the courier. All because someone from the Serious Fraud Office in Manchester had said there was a network of crooked banks operating in our area who were giving out counterfeit notes, and they needed someone who the banks could not possibly suspect to help them out. On the second day she went to Santander and withdrew a further £4000. On the third day she was directed to go to a jeweller to purchase a £28,000 watch. Fortunately the jeweller refused to sell her the watch and said to her firmly, I think you're being scammed. At that point she told the fraudster she had had enough and a few days later she came round to ask us if she could borrow our phone to call the police as she believed the fraudsters were monitoring her phone. Like your father, she cannot believe how stupid she was (her own words not mine). Having led professional lives, I think at that age they want to feel that they can still be of use to society, and maybe this leads them to ignore the usual warning signals. The fraudster was also very proficient at grooming her and playing on her vulnerabilities. When the police came round to talk to her, she was all up for setting up a sting operation, but the police wouldn't have it. Subsequently she spoke to her 2 banks about it, both had warned her there was fraud about and that it would be safer not to take out cash, but if the "Serious Fraud Office" were there to try to pick up on counterfeit notes, then obviously she had to have the cash! The manager of one told her she had been stupid, the other contacted their internal fraud department who said they were not liable but this kindly bank manager suggested informally to her that she might want to contact her solicitors. The police don't have any leads on the fraudsters. The question really is the extent to which the banks owe their clients a duty of care. We've come to the conclusion that it's unlikely we can show the banks were negligent but we're not legal people. In my neighbour's case she wanted to draw a line under it and move on, so we haven't actively pursued it although she will talk about it every now and again. Sorry not to be of more help. But to all those people who posted - how on earth did he fall for it, I can assure them that these are not the only 2 out there who have fallen for it. There are plenty of similar cases in the papers all the time. If any one thinks there is a case to be made for getting some of the money back, I would love to hear about it.0
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The question really is the extent to which the banks owe their clients a duty of care. We've come to the conclusion that it's unlikely we can show the banks were negligent but we're not legal people.
In the example you quote, your 'lovely elderly neighbour' withdrew £4,000 worth of euros from Thomas Cook, the Post Office, and Santander. Neither Thomas Cook nor the Post Office are banks. What duty of care do they owe?0 -
The Berkeley Burke business was indeed different as it was an investment that was made available by BB through their SIPP product portal to pension investors.
So it seems reasonable that to make it available as an investment opportunity that BB should have done some due diligence on the fact that is was all genuine and not fraudulent while not giving specific advice as to whether or not individual investors should invest in it.
Sadly it turned out in the BB case that the particular investment was a total fraud.
All not dissimilar from say Apple vetting the products they approve and make available in their App store.0
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