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VCS defeated in Liverpool Court.: No keeper liability

24

Comments

  • safarmuk
    safarmuk Posts: 648 Forumite
    The (up to August) 2016 accounts for EL are actually due out any minute and will be the first full year of trading (the prior up to August 2015 accounts look they they were for ~4 months). You can view them on Companies House to see how they are doing ... :) ... free access.
  • Loadsofchildren123
    Loadsofchildren123 Posts: 2,504 Forumite
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    Lamilad wrote: »
    I've been looking into Elms Legal - and it seems to be a strange set up. They are a limited company with only one employee (the director). He is listed as an 'in-house' solicitor at VCS and MiL Collections.

    Yes indeed. I looked into this but then got caught up with other things. It is very odd.

    Elms Legal has an SRA ID number but is not regulated.
    Its website says it is CILEx regulated.
    According to the CILEx website, the only area in which their legal execs can practice independently is in the administration of oaths. So a Cilex practising on their own can't really do anything. However, it also says Cilex were applying to secure additional practice rights and so this MAY be out of date.

    Why is it CILEx registered when the only person there is a solicitor?

    Why does it have an SRA ID if it isn't regulated?

    What activities is Elms allowed to carry out by CILEx and/or SRA?

    How can Ed claim to offer legal services if Elms isn't regulated by SRA and under CILEx rules isn't allowed to do anything if the CILEx isn't working under a solicitor?

    It's very curious.

    I had meant to phone the SRA to ask about what this all meant, and to check with CILEx why they are CILEx regulated when they don't seem to have a CILEx Legal Exec there.

    And yes, Ed is listed as in house at VCS.

    I agree that they are just an agency. But it does require some looking into because there is something odd about it.

    In spite of being CILEx regulated and restricted by that, it is offering litigation services. It talks about "our advocates" on the marketing bumph on the website.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • System
    System Posts: 178,093 Community Admin
    Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    See http://www.cilex.org.uk/membership/practice_advice/rights_of_audience/members_rights_of_audience
  • Loadsofchildren123
    Loadsofchildren123 Posts: 2,504 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    But I think the limitations I am talking about apply to a CILEx if they are working alone. If this place isn't SRA regulated, this implies that it's only a CILEx working there.

    It needs a few phone calls and a bit of digging.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,629 Forumite
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    IamEmanresu wrote: »
    What a good idea. The BMPA has a text number (07481 344930). Will see if they are willing to trial a quick check by text for those appearing in court wanting to check RoA.

    That would be great if the BMPA could set that up. I'll link it in the NEWBIES thread but a special thread about checking RoA with a list of those already 'found out' would be great too.
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  • Loadsofchildren123
    Loadsofchildren123 Posts: 2,504 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    That would be great if the BMPA could set that up. I'll link it in the NEWBIES thread but a special thread about checking RoA with a list of those already 'found out' would be great too.

    Yes, with details of the advocate and the case and the judge so it can be backed up in court by new OPs
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
    @lamilad as a non practising solicitor she is still on the solicitor roll. That means if she did mislead the court she can still be subject to the usual SRA disciplinary process.
  • Loadsofchildren123
    Loadsofchildren123 Posts: 2,504 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Do you remain on the roll Jonersh even if you don't renew your practising certificate? So once on it, you are always on it?
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • henrik777
    henrik777 Posts: 3,052 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    The judge wasn’t happy with this saying there’s no reason for an individual not to put their own name and the court should able to identify which officer of the company has filed the claim as in some cases it is very relevant.

    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part22/pd_part22#3.1
    3.7 Where a party is legally represented, the legal representative may sign the statement of truth on his behalf. The statement signed by the legal representative will refer to the client’s belief, not his own. In signing he must state the capacity in which he signs and the name of his firm where appropriate.

    3.9 The individual who signs a statement of truth must print his full name clearly beneath his signature.
    3.10 A legal representative who signs a statement of truth must sign in his own name and not that of his firm or employer.

    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part07/pd_part07e#10.1
    Signature
    10 Any provision of the CPR which requires a document to be signed by any person is satisfied by that person entering their name on an online form.


    Pretty simple and i know they have had it explained to them many a time as i mention every time i tell someone to respond to a LBA.

    I assume the rule is in place so that a court can place blame if there is a contemptuous issue with what is said.
  • Lamilad
    Lamilad Posts: 1,412 Forumite
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    It's very curious.

    I had meant to phone the SRA to ask about what this all meant, and to check with CILEx why they are CILEx regulated when they don't seem to have a CILEx Legal Exec there.

    And yes, Ed is listed as in house at VCS.

    I agree that they are just an agency. But it does require some looking into because there is something odd about it.
    It would be great, LoC if you could make some calls and find out exactly what's going on. All seems very dodgy.

    The more we dig into this RoA stuff the more confusing it seems to get - at least for someone not legally minded like myself.

    I was under the impression, from a comment by Johnersh on another thread, that a solicitor or barrister ALWAYS has RoA; but I'm guessing that's only if they are with a firm (solicitor) or 'in chambers' (barrister). If they are not does this mean they are "non practicing"?

    Basically:
    Can a solicitor with a firm still be classed as 'non practicing'?
    and/or
    Can a solicitor not with a firm still be classed as 'practicing'?

    Also what about self employed solicitors? Are they classed as 'with a firm' and if so would their name have to be registered as if it was the name of the firm.

    I feel a headache coming on....
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