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    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 8th Feb 12, 8:39 PM
    • 31,566 Posts
    • 80,909 Thanks
    Mojisola
    Please, please everyone make a will. One of my parents didn't and as a result (too complicated to go in to here) all of the family estate, worth over 7 figures has gone out of the family. Nothing we can do cos it is the law of intestacy. So do it. I would hate others to go through the grief and angst that I have had to suffer.
    Originally posted by BAS/BAL
    There's something wrong here. The laws of intestacy allow only blood relations to inherit. How could the estate go out of the family?
  • Errata
    Does your mum have capacity? Would she understand what making a will meant and be able to use her judgment about its contents?
    Is there anyone who could challenge the will when the time comes on the grounds that she had a diagnosis of dementia and didn't have capacity at the time she made it?
    .....................I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 8th Feb 12, 8:42 PM
    • 31,566 Posts
    • 80,909 Thanks
    Mojisola
    My mom has been diagnosed with dementia and I've been told to get her affairs in order sooner rather than later but my mom hasn't done a will. Can anyone tell me whether I can do a will online with her or do I actually have to get a solicitor involved as I'm struggling to know what to do for the best
    Originally posted by trishiem68
    It depends how bad she is. She may be considered too advanced to be able to make the decisions necessary for a will.

    If you think she is still capable, use a solicitor. If the will is challenged on the basis of incompetency, it will help to have a solicitor on your side who can say that she was capable during the preparation of the will.
  • trishiem68
    Sorry you will have to forgive me as this is the first forum I've ever joined so hopefully I'm replying the correct way!

    Some days you forget that there's anything wrong with her but then she has bad days and I'm worried that going to a solicitors that it will unnerve her. I don't think anyone would challenge the will as my brother and sister are in agreement of what mom would want to happen.
  • Errata
    These days solicitors are pretty cute to people taking their dear old mum to them to make her will and are hyper-sensitive to any sign of distress/anxiety/confuddlement and will err on the side of caution and take the view that dear old mum doesn't have sufficient mental capacity to understand what she intends to do and what the consequences of her actions are.
    If the solicitor is advised that mum has a diagnosis of dementia they will either ask for medical opinion on capacity, which can only be a snapshot on the day the opinion is given, and even then they still may decline a request to write the will, or they will flatly refuse.
    .....................I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...
    • Gotapikapokitor2
    • By Gotapikapokitor2 8th Feb 12, 10:12 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    Gotapikapokitor2
    Is there anything logical on this site? I wanted to ask a question (as others have) but none of the headings relate to doing this, so I'm guessing (illogically) as nothing else has a space to write in, that this "Message" will appear somewhere maybe? (Even though it appears under the heading "Quick Reply").
    Q1. Can I add my son as an additional executor via a codicil?
    Q2. My daughter has divorced and re-married. Does my will need changing, and if so, would a codicil be appropriate, and are there DIY codicil forms?
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 9th Feb 12, 1:37 AM
    • 40,096 Posts
    • 37,463 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    My mom has been diagnosed with dementia and I've been told to get her affairs in order sooner rather than later but my mom hasn't done a will. Can anyone tell me whether I can do a will online with her or do I actually have to get a solicitor involved as I'm struggling to know what to do for the best
    Originally posted by trishiem68
    Does your mum have capacity? Would she understand what making a will meant and be able to use her judgment about its contents?
    Is there anyone who could challenge the will when the time comes on the grounds that she had a diagnosis of dementia and didn't have capacity at the time she made it?
    Originally posted by Errata
    These days solicitors are pretty cute to people taking their dear old mum to them to make her will and are hyper-sensitive to any sign of distress/anxiety/confuddlement and will err on the side of caution and take the view that dear old mum doesn't have sufficient mental capacity to understand what she intends to do and what the consequences of her actions are.
    If the solicitor is advised that mum has a diagnosis of dementia they will either ask for medical opinion on capacity, which can only be a snapshot on the day the opinion is given, and even then they still may decline a request to write the will, or they will flatly refuse.
    Originally posted by Errata
    One piece of advice AS WELL AS making a will is to sort out Power of Attorney, if she still has capacity. Because it's easier while she still has capacity than once she's lost it.

    'Capacity' doesn't have to be there all the time. If you know she's better in the mornings, then that's when you make the appointment - although a decent solicitor will still want to check she has capacity. If she's better at home than out, get the solicitor in.

    That applies to both writing the will, and getting PofA.

    And to add to that, I have a vague feeling that someone with PofA can make a will on behalf of the person they're acting for, because they can do anything the person would have done. Can anyone confirm my vague feeling?
    Still knitting!
    Completed: TWO adult cardigans, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees, 2 sets of handwarmers, 1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 3 balaclavas, multiple hats and poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: pink balaclava (for myself), seaman's hat, about to start another cardigan!
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 9th Feb 12, 1:44 AM
    • 40,096 Posts
    • 37,463 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    Is there anything logical on this site? I wanted to ask a question (as others have) but none of the headings relate to doing this, so I'm guessing (illogically) as nothing else has a space to write in, that this "Message" will appear somewhere maybe? (Even though it appears under the heading "Quick Reply").
    Originally posted by Gotapikapokitor2
    It can be a bit confusing at times ...

    You can also use the larger REPLY button, or use the QUOTE button if you want to refer to a previous post.

    Q1. Can I add my son as an additional executor via a codicil?
    Q2. My daughter has divorced and re-married. Does my will need changing, and if so, would a codicil be appropriate, and are there DIY codicil forms?
    Originally posted by Gotapikapokitor2
    I believe you can do practically anything with a codicil. Whether it's a good idea to use a codicil is another matter. As for whether your will NEEDS changing because of your DD's divorce and re-marriage, I'd say it partly depended on what your will said - if it refers to Janet and John where John is the ex, obviously it does need changing unless you still want John to have anything.

    It's important to get a codicil right in the same way as the will itself - witnesses, dating, etc. So it may be simpler to go to a solicitor and start again - if the changes are simple then the solicitor who drew up the first one may amend it for a lesser fee.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: TWO adult cardigans, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees, 2 sets of handwarmers, 1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 3 balaclavas, multiple hats and poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: pink balaclava (for myself), seaman's hat, about to start another cardigan!
  • trishiem68
    One piece of advice AS WELL AS making a will is to sort out Power of Attorney, if she still has capacity. Because it's easier while she still has capacity than once she's lost it.

    'Capacity' doesn't have to be there all the time. If you know she's better in the mornings, then that's when you make the appointment - although a decent solicitor will still want to check she has capacity. If she's better at home than out, get the solicitor in.

    That applies to both writing the will, and getting PofA.

    And to add to that, I have a vague feeling that someone with PofA can make a will on behalf of the person they're acting for, because they can do anything the person would have done. Can anyone confirm my vague feeling?
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    Thanks for the advice. I've completed the PofA and posted it about three weeks ago and but not heard anything yet but I did notice that it can take up to thirteen weeks before it will come through providing that I haven't made any mistakes, fingers crossed. I'm a bit worried about leaving it that long just in case they say I can't and with mom's illness I don't know if she will still have the capacity in thirteen weeks, I just don't know. My mom worked many years ago at a solicitors office so she does understand why she needs to do it but I just don't know what to do for the best. I have rang a solicitors recently and explained about mom but they said that I need a letter confirming that she has capacity but then when you speak to mom's consultant they said that the solicitor usually have to form their own opinion and do their own test but I don't know whose right
    • John_Pierpoint
    • By John_Pierpoint 10th Feb 12, 2:14 PM
    • 8,248 Posts
    • 7,388 Thanks
    John_Pierpoint
    If you are not trying to do something contentious but just trying to improve and simplify the effects of intestacy, you could mug up on DIY wills.
    Then you could help mum to formulate her will, on one of her good days.

    "Which?" used to include suitable wordings in their guide, but these days they plug their on-line service.
    My mum and I, used the "Which?" guide to re-write her will [and cut out the solicitor who had conveniently made himself the executor] and it passed the acid test of getting grant of probate when the time came - even though it was only printed using a dot matrix printer and then photocopied down to fit it all on one side of paper (before being signed and witnessed).
    That is more than I can say for my uncle's will. It had been solicitor created and was partially intestate - the worst of both worlds.

    [I have "fond" memories of a solicitor and a hospital doctor arguing over who was going to sign the Lasting Power of Attorney application forms. This was I think pure "anus protectus" on their part as neither wanted the responsibility, but the NHS bloke wanted the bed.
    The reality was that my uncle had lost most of the ability to speak and all the ability to sign. However he still understood.
    In the event he passed on within about 6 weeks and the whole expensive pantomime proved a waste of time and money.]
    • John_Pierpoint
    • By John_Pierpoint 10th Feb 12, 2:27 PM
    • 8,248 Posts
    • 7,388 Thanks
    John_Pierpoint
    Please, please everyone make a will. One of my parents didn't and as a result (too complicated to go in to here) all of the family estate, worth over 7 figures has gone out of the family. Nothing we can do cos it is the law of intestacy. So do it. I would hate others to go through the grief and angst that I have had to suffer.
    Originally posted by BAS/BAL
    Is this a "step family" situation? Increasingly common in our new millennium society or perhaps an adoption that had not been done correctly?
    Otherwise a DNA test would sort it out.

    Assuming we are talking about an England and Wales resident and death, here are the rules:
    http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_family/family_index_ew/who_can_inherit_if_there_is_no_will___the_rules_of _intestacy.htm

    Basically if the deceased has no surviving legal partner or children/grandchildren/greatgrandchildren then the money goes backwards to the parents of the deceased and then works its way forwards looking for someone still alive.
    If that does not work it goes backwards to the grandparents and works forwards through the uncles and aunts looking for someone still alive.
    "Full blood" taking precedence over "half blood" - My FiL had a grandparent who managed to have 4 wives.

    In the Celtic fringes there is more of an effort to find and favour family members; for example in Scotland the money can go all the way backwards to the great grandparents before rolling forwards looking for living relatives.

    The only recent changes are increases in the amounts going to the surviving partner (Now up to 450K) - as the survivor is usually a woman, this can favour a switch from the male line to the female one but it is not "7 figures".

    There is also legislation that says if someone is a dependent of the deceased then that dependent can make a claim on the estate for their maintenance.
    [The rest of us don't want to pay for him/her]
    Last edited by John_Pierpoint; 10-02-2012 at 3:14 PM.
  • Errata
    I have rang a solicitors recently and explained about mom but they said that I need a letter confirming that she has capacity but then when you speak to mom's consultant they said that the solicitor usually have to form their own opinion and do their own test but I don't know whose right
    Originally posted by trishiem68
    A consultant's opinion is something of a snapshot, it can only be an opinion of how someone is at the point the opinion is given. The day after it's given the person may have far less capacity, and even less the following week when they attempt to instruct a solicitor.
    I'm not sure what is meant by a test a solicitor will do. They aren't medically qualified, so their opinion of someone's capacity would be hard for them to defend in any meaningful way and it's not worth the hassle for them for a fee of a couple of hundred pounds.
    .....................I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...
    • BAS/BAL
    • By BAS/BAL 10th Feb 12, 4:35 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    BAS/BAL
    There's something wrong here. The laws of intestacy allow only blood relations to inherit. How could the estate go out of the family?
    Originally posted by Mojisola
    Nope sadly nothing wrong. The estate went to my parent's second spouse who willed it to their only issue. This person has now died, intestate, and the estate will probably go to a distant relative of that person's abusive father! All quite legal and ruled on by the Judge. So the blood relation wlil inherit! It all happened in another country too. So very unfair but perfectly legal.
    • John_Pierpoint
    • By John_Pierpoint 10th Feb 12, 5:03 PM
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    John_Pierpoint
    Ah well it could have all been left to the cats' home in a perfectly legal will too.

    Never a good idea to rely on an inheritance - it can really mess up your life.
    • BAS/BAL
    • By BAS/BAL 10th Feb 12, 5:08 PM
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    • 11 Thanks
    BAS/BAL
    Ah well it could have all been left to the cats' home in a perfectly legal will too.

    Never a good idea to rely on an inheritance - it can really mess up your life.
    Originally posted by John_Pierpoint
    I find that remark quite upsetting. You don't know the circumstances of it all.
    I didn't rely on an inheritance especially as this parent did nothing for me while alive so why should they do anything for me when dead?
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 10th Feb 12, 5:56 PM
    • 31,566 Posts
    • 80,909 Thanks
    Mojisola
    Please, please everyone make a will. One of my parents didn't and as a result (too complicated to go in to here) all of the family estate, worth over 7 figures has gone out of the family. Nothing we can do cos it is the law of intestacy. So do it. I would hate others to go through the grief and angst that I have had to suffer.
    Originally posted by BAS/BAL
    Nope sadly nothing wrong. The estate went to my parent's second spouse who willed it to their only issue. This person has now died, intestate, and the estate will probably go to a distant relative of that person's abusive father! All quite legal and ruled on by the Judge. So the blood relation wlil inherit! It all happened in another country too. So very unfair but perfectly legal.
    Originally posted by BAS/BAL
    So it was a step-parent, not your blood relation.

    The inheritance has stayed within the blood family.
    • John_Pierpoint
    • By John_Pierpoint 11th Feb 12, 2:40 AM
    • 8,248 Posts
    • 7,388 Thanks
    John_Pierpoint
    Please, please everyone make a will. One of my parents didn't and as a result (too complicated to go in to here) all of the family estate, worth over 7 figures has gone out of the family. Nothing we can do cos it is the law of intestacy. So do it. I would hate others to go through the grief and angst that I have had to suffer.
    Originally posted by BAS/BAL
    Nope sadly nothing wrong. The estate went to my parent's second spouse who willed it to their only issue. This person has now died, intestate, and the estate will probably go to a distant relative of that person's abusive father! All quite legal and ruled on by the Judge. So the blood relation wlil inherit! It all happened in another country too. So very unfair but perfectly legal.
    Originally posted by BAS/BAL
    I find that remark quite upsetting. You don't know the circumstances of it all.
    I didn't rely on an inheritance especially as this parent did nothing for me while alive so why should they do anything for me when dead?
    Originally posted by BAS/BAL
    I apologise for upsetting you. My observation was not aimed at you personally; I just meant it to be a general observation about the lottery of life.
    I could tell a story about how the expectation of an inheritance was one of the worst things that could have happened to someone I know; even though he eventually, at the age of 50. did inherit something of a poisoned chalice.

    I won't try to pry into your personal circumstances. So let us just leave things as generalities.

    A lot depends on chance, for example the order in which people happen to die and the size of their families.

    However the legal structure and customs of the people can have an effect too.
    One of the driving forces behind Britain's England's industrial and empire expansion, was a law and taxation system that encouraged families to look after their own, coupled with a custom of preserving the capital by leaving it to the eldest son. This produced an "army" of younger sons who were educated but who knew they were going to have to make their own way in the world.
    [It also produced Jane Austen to comment on the plight of the daughters of the poor relation]

    Personally I think society has now swung too far the other way in its legislation and attempts to be "fair" and the reliance on a cradle to grave "welfare state" is beginning to look like an unaffordable luxury in a selfish nation.
    Last edited by John_Pierpoint; 11-02-2012 at 2:49 AM.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 11th Feb 12, 8:53 AM
    • 31,566 Posts
    • 80,909 Thanks
    Mojisola
    Nope sadly nothing wrong. The estate went to my parent's second spouse who willed it to their only issue. This person has now died, intestate, and the estate will probably go to a distant relative of that person's abusive father! All quite legal and ruled on by the Judge. So the blood relation wlil inherit! It all happened in another country too. So very unfair but perfectly legal.
    Originally posted by BAS/BAL
    The problem here wasn't the intestacy rules but the fact that two wills left everything to one other person with no provision for the rest of the family. In cases of step-families, it's really important that all eventualities are covered.

    If your genetic parent had wanted it, your step-parent could have been given life-time use of the inheritance which would then be shared between all the children after the second death.
    • BAS/BAL
    • By BAS/BAL 11th Feb 12, 10:00 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    BAS/BAL
    I apologise for upsetting you. My observation was not aimed at you personally; I just meant it to be a general observation about the lottery of life.
    I could tell a story about how the expectation of an inheritance was one of the worst things that could have happened to someone I know; even though he eventually, at the age of 50. did inherit something of a poisoned chalice.

    I won't try to pry into your personal circumstances. So let us just leave things as generalities.

    A lot depends on chance, for example the order in which people happen to die and the size of their families.

    However the legal structure and customs of the people can have an effect too.
    One of the driving forces behind Britain's England's industrial and empire expansion, was a law and taxation system that encouraged families to look after their own, coupled with a custom of preserving the capital by leaving it to the eldest son. This produced an "army" of younger sons who were educated but who knew they were going to have to make their own way in the world.
    [It also produced Jane Austen to comment on the plight of the daughters of the poor relation]

    Personally I think society has now swung too far the other way in its legislation and attempts to be "fair" and the reliance on a cradle to grave "welfare state" is beginning to look like an unaffordable luxury in a selfish nation.
    Originally posted by John_Pierpoint
    Thank you for that Pierpoint, I appreciate it. The irony is that if my step sibling HAD left a legal will (told you it was very complicated, that bit is still being fought over - but not by me as I'm a non-contender!) then they probably would have left at least part of it to a cat charity!!
    • BAS/BAL
    • By BAS/BAL 11th Feb 12, 10:33 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    BAS/BAL
    The problem here wasn't the intestacy rules but the fact that two wills left everything to one other person with no provision for the rest of the family. In cases of step-families, it's really important that all eventualities are covered.

    If your genetic parent had wanted it, your step-parent could have been given life-time use of the inheritance which would then be shared between all the children after the second death.
    Originally posted by Mojisola
    I never said there was anything wrong with the intestacy laws. they are there to protect us and by and large they do. In this case although the estate has probably stayed in the bloodline, morally it probably should have stayed with the children of those who built it up!! The whole estate (worth over 2.5 million) will probably go to a blood relative in yet another country that not even my step sibling knew existed. This step sibling has/had step children and like me they too have lost out on inheriting what their parent put together. In both cases our deceased parents either failed to make a will (died before the will was finalised, again too complicated to go into here) or did not have their will written so that their wishes were carried through by the remaining partner (the step parent).

    What I hoped to do was encourage those who had not made out a will to do so. We may think it will all work out ok in the end but the grief, literally, that this has caused has been enormous. So if you and your loved ones don't want your and their life turned upside down (and I'm not just talking about the money here) then make sure that you and those around you make a will!!

    ps One lawyer reckons there's a book and film rights in my story, any takers? ;-)
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