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  • FIRST POST
    archived user
    Left The House In My Late Mum's Will But My Sisters Refuse To Sell It-HELP!
    • #1
    • 16th Feb 16, 3:55 PM
    Left The House In My Late Mum's Will But My Sisters Refuse To Sell It-HELP! 16th Feb 16 at 3:55 PM
    My mother died 2 months ago in November 2015 and she has left both her house and a small sum of money to myself and my 2 younger sisters in her will.

    My 2 sisters are both the executives of the will, but I am not. But my mum has included me in her will and left the house to the 3 of us and we each get a third of everything.

    That is if my late mums house is sold, the money from the house sale will be divided between myself and my 2 sisters.

    And my late mother also left us money which is her savings from her bank account which is also to be divided between myself and my sisters as is the terms of mums will.

    I want to sell the house but the problem is that my sisters don't want to sell it because the other sister who used to be my late mum's carer does not want to move out.

    My other sister is married with a house of her own and I have my own flat. But I want to sell the house because I am on benefits and need the money for myself.


    My situation is that my sisters do not want any contact with me and it was like this even when mum was alive.

    So I have gone to a wills and Probate solicitor who has taken my case. Because of my family situation,my sisters won't see me or talk to me, there is no way I can sort this out on my own. And my sisters solicitor won't have any conversations with me, since she is my sisters solicitor not mine.

    So I have had to get a solicitor of my own which I have done. But I have found out that it won't be covered by Legal Aid but my solicitor has said I will be billed the fees at the end of administration after my mums house is sold as I will have the money from the house sale.Which is an agreement I am happy with.

    What has happened so far is that my sisters solicitors applied for probate on behalf of my sisters who are executives of the will.
    My late mother left her house to me and my sisters.


    My sisters solicitors applied for and my sisters and I were granted Probate by the high Court on the 29th December 2015.
    Which means that my mums house is both mine and my sisters and can be sold.

    My solicitor who is acting for me has so far been contacting my sisters though their solicitor.


    But now my sisters solicitors have told my solicitor that their role was limited applying for the grant of probate and my sisters are not ready to sell the house.
    And I am not happy with this at all as it seems that my sisters are trying to get out of selling the house.


    I would sell the house myself but my solicitor has told me that because I don't have the automatic right to do this since I am only a benefactor of my late moms will but not the executive.
    My 2 sisters are the executives but not me.

    I don't understand this because mum has left her house to me and my sisters in her Will. So the house now belongs to me as well as my sisters.

    So why can't I sell it?

    But my solicitor said that as a benefactor I have the right to receive my late mothers estate and make sure that my sisters who are the executives of the will deal with the property correctly and sell it in a reasonable amount of time.

    And if they don't I can take legal action against the executives who are in this case my sisters.

    So I told my solicitor to do it, but my solicitor said we cannot take it before a judge now because it has only been 5 weeks that we have been granted probate. And I have got to give my sisters(the executives of the will) more time to get the house on the market.


    But my sisters are doing nothing about this.

    So where do I go from here?

    And is my solicitor telling me correctly or can more be done about this?

    Please can someone advise since I don't know much about the laws of probate.
    I am in England, well London actually and my mum died in London so the will is subject to English law. Just to let you know.
    Last edited by annbarbs; 16-02-2016 at 4:17 PM.
Page 6
    • Brighton belle
    • By Brighton belle 23rd Feb 16, 7:15 PM
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    Brighton belle
    Hi Ann, when people buy a house with a mortgage, a Building Society or Bank loan them the money (not the estate agent) so they can give the full 342,000 to the sellers. That means the sellers (in this case your sisters and you) will get the full amount as soon as the sale is completed - it is normally paid to the solicitor who is dealing with the sale, who then deducts their fees, pays the estate agent their agreed % and passes the remaining balance on to the sellers.
    The people who have bought it, then pay their monthly mortgage amount to their lenders (the bank or BS who loaned them the money.)
    I hope this explains it for you.
    I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once
    • elsien
    • By elsien 23rd Feb 16, 7:18 PM
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    elsien
    The mortgage means the buyer has the full amount to pay to the seller. They then pay the monthly repayments back to the bank/building society they borrowed the lump sum from.
    Whether they pay cash or get a mortgage won't make any difference to you and your sisters, you get the full amount when the sale goes through.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 23rd Feb 16, 7:59 PM
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    getmore4less
    Just one question I want to ask.
    The High Court who grated Probate has valued my mother house at 342000 that's 342k.

    ......
    Originally posted by annbarbs
    the court does not value the house the executor(s) make a guess and stick it on a form the court do not care what is on the form.

    The only organization that cares is HMRC who may want to value it at some point if they think there is some tax to pay.
    • jouef
    • By jouef 23rd Feb 16, 8:58 PM
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    • 44 Thanks
    jouef
    My 2 sisters do not want to sell the house because my other sister who was living with mum before she died does not want to move out.

    No there is no rent to pay because my mothers house is all bought and paid for. And there is no morgage to pay because my mother bought the house upfront and paid the full amount.

    And there are no debts to settle because my mother never left any debts.
    Originally posted by annbarbs
    I'm not sure that you have explained how you know what your sisters want to do if you cannot speak to them. As much accurate information as you can get will be useful later on, but as others have said, the executors can take time to do their job. They can also choose to do so without keeping you informed. Unfortunately there seems little option but to wait, and to use the time to become better informed and prepared to challenge them when the time is right.

    The sister who lives there does not wholly own the house and therefore owes a proportion of the market rent to the other owners including you. Conversely, you may be liable for a share of some of the costs of owning the house (maintenance, taxes, charges etc, but not utility bills for services the resident uses). These items may also take time to quantify and settle, and as executors they may have the right to determine the rent themselves and eventually pay it out with the rest of the estate - perhaps others could advise on this.

    If probate has been granted, any inheritance tax (the first charge on the estate) will have been paid. But again, if you were not in close contact, is it safe to assume no debts?

    Ideally the sister who lives there would agree to sell, or would buy the others out (if she needed and could get a mortgage, as others have said, the mortgage company would pay you in full and get the money plus interest back from her over time). Forcing a sale might also entail evicting her.

    The lawyers can easily be the overall winners - use them sparingly.
  • archived user
    Hi Ann, when people buy a house with a mortgage, a Building Society or Bank loan them the money (not the estate agent) so they can give the full 342,000 to the sellers. That means the sellers (in this case your sisters and you) will get the full amount as soon as the sale is completed - it is normally paid to the solicitor who is dealing with the sale, who then deducts their fees, pays the estate agent their agreed % and passes the remaining balance on to the sellers.
    The people who have bought it, then pay their monthly mortgage amount to their lenders (the bank or BS who loaned them the money.)
    I hope this explains it for you.
    Oh. I didn't know that.
    I thought that once you find the house you want to buy. You pay the mortgage yourself out of your wages, per month to the estate agent who sold you the house. The same way you pay rent to a private landlord or letting agent.
    I didn't know that mortgage mean't the bank lending you money the same as with a bank loan.
    Thanks for explaining that that.

    If I was going to buy a place I would rather pay all the money upfront as my mother did.

    I see no point in getting a mortgage as you might as well be paying rent.
    But I would not get a mortgage anyway because I am not working.
    And they don't give mortgages to people on benefits. Even after I get my money from the house I still won't get one as you still have to be working and I cannot work.

    So the only way I could buy a place is if I payed for it upfront without a mortgage. But I don't think 114k is enough money to do that.
    A one bedroom flat even in the North of England would cost at least 60k and that would eat up most of my inheritance.

    So after I get my money from the house I can either stay in my Housing Association flat and pay my 149 a week rent which is 545 a month
    Or move though my HA home swap scheme which is difficult, but if I can get a swap with another HA the rent might be cheaper.

    Or rent a private flat with a private landlord but the inheritance won't be enough to buy a flat. Not unless I want to use up all my capital but then I will be back on benefits again.
    Last edited by annbarbs; 24-02-2016 at 1:47 AM.
    • jouef
    • By jouef 24th Feb 16, 5:06 AM
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    jouef
    I see no point in getting a mortgage as you might as well be paying rent.
    Originally posted by annbarbs
    Worth noting some of the differences - when the whole mortgage is paid off (which typically takes 25 years) you own the house and have nothing more to pay, while rent still has to be paid for as long as you live there and you own nothing.

    This can be a good or a bad thing. If house prices rise, you own something worth more than you paid for it, and also rents may go up but the mortgage payments would not. Though if interest rates go up, so could your mortgage payments while rents may not. If house prices fall your outstanding mortgage might be more than the house is worth, saddling you with an overall debt while a renter could just walk away debt-free. Moving house is more complicated and costly for an owner than a renter. With a mortgage, you could use the 'equity' (the difference between the current price of the house and the outstanding debt left on the mortgage) as collateral for another purpose for which a renter might have difficulty affording an equivalent loan.

    Even if a mortgage is not right for you, it is helpful to understand how it works for others who you might be dealing with.
    • missbiggles1
    • By missbiggles1 24th Feb 16, 5:36 AM
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    missbiggles1
    Oh. I didn't know that.
    I thought that once you find the house you want to buy. You pay the mortgage yourself out of your wages, per month to the estate agent who sold you the house. The same way you pay rent to a private landlord or letting agent.
    I didn't know that mortgage mean't the bank lending you money the same as with a bank loan.
    Thanks for explaining that that.

    If I was going to buy a place I would rather pay all the money upfront as my mother did.

    I see no point in getting a mortgage as you might as well be paying rent.
    But I would not get a mortgage anyway because I am not working.
    And they don't give mortgages to people on benefits. Even after I get my money from the house I still won't get one as you still have to be working and I cannot work.

    So the only way I could buy a place is if I payed for it upfront without a mortgage. But I don't think 114k is enough money to do that.
    A one bedroom flat even in the North of England would cost at least 60k and that would eat up most of my inheritance.

    So after I get my money from the house I can either stay in my Housing Association flat and pay my 149 a week rent which is 545 a month
    Or move though my HA home swap scheme which is difficult, but if I can get a swap with another HA the rent might be cheaper.

    Or rent a private flat with a private landlord but the inheritance won't be enough to buy a flat. Not unless I want to use up all my capital but then I will be back on benefits again.
    Originally posted by annbarbs
    I think you have to accept that you'll be back on benefits eventually, even after getting your inheritance. On a rough estimate (depending how much you get and on interest rates) 117k is likely to last for less than 10 years.
    • jouef
    • By jouef 24th Feb 16, 6:42 AM
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    jouef
    I think you have to accept that you'll be back on benefits eventually, even after getting your inheritance ... 117k is likely to last for less than 10 years
    Originally posted by missbiggles1
    I would look into ways of using the capital without affecting benefits, such as main residence versus savings. Depending on one's attitude, this could be a means to either maximising benefits income or reducing dependence on benefits. Either way, could this be more sustainable than using the inheritance as a stopgap and resuming benefits when it's exhausted? Rigorous advice would be needed to comply with regulations.

    Also, having used solicitors both to obtain probate and to settle the ensuing dispute, 10 or 20% of this estate could easily be taken in fees, maybe more.
    Last edited by jouef; 24-02-2016 at 7:18 AM.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 24th Feb 16, 9:45 AM
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    getmore4less
    I would look into ways of using the capital without affecting benefits, such as main residence versus savings.
    Originally posted by jouef
    One of the big risks with changing from renting to owning is maintenance.

    indirectly housing benefits for rent subsidise the maintenance of the roof over your head, not so easy when you own.
    • Gigervamp
    • By Gigervamp 24th Feb 16, 9:50 AM
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    Gigervamp
    Anna, when you do finally get your inheritence, I think you should go and speak to an independent financial advisor. With the amount of money you're getting, it should be kept in some form of high interest savings account, as you may be able to live on the interest it earns rather than eating up your capital.

    Also, that amount of money shouldn't be kept in one bank account as the banks will only guarantee 75K. That means that if the bank goes bust, you would get 75K back, but not more, if there was more in the bank.

    I wonder if the charity, Mind would be able to advise you.
    • missbiggles1
    • By missbiggles1 24th Feb 16, 9:57 AM
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    missbiggles1
    Anna, when you do finally get your inheritence, I think you should go and speak to an independent financial advisor. With the amount of money you're getting, it should be kept in some form of high interest savings account, as you may be able to live on the interest it earns rather than eating up your capital.

    Also, that amount of money shouldn't be kept in one bank account as the banks will only guarantee 75K. That means that if the bank goes bust, you would get 75K back, but not more, if there was more in the bank.

    I wonder if the charity, Mind would be able to advise you.
    Originally posted by Gigervamp
    I'm no expert on savings but I thought that high rate interest accounts are paying around 3%, giving an income of around only 3.5k which won't be enough for the OP to live on, even with DLA on top. It'll obviously last her a bit longer than my back of a fag packet calculation if you take interest into account but I can't see how she can live without using her capital to live on.
    Last edited by missbiggles1; 24-02-2016 at 10:02 AM.
    • missbiggles1
    • By missbiggles1 24th Feb 16, 10:01 AM
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    missbiggles1
    I would look into ways of using the capital without affecting benefits, such as main residence versus savings. Depending on one's attitude, this could be a means to either maximising benefits income or reducing dependence on benefits. Either way, could this be more sustainable than using the inheritance as a stopgap and resuming benefits when it's exhausted? Rigorous advice would be needed to comply with regulations.

    Also, having used solicitors both to obtain probate and to settle the ensuing dispute, 10 or 20% of this estate could easily be taken in fees, maybe more.
    Originally posted by jouef
    A long time poster on here was in a very similar situation to the OP and she was told very definitely that, if she used her inheritance to buy a property (which is what I think you're suggesting), this would be considered to be deprivation of capital, even though it meant that she'd never need to claim HB again.

    Sometimes the common sense approach isn't acceptable within the system.
    • fairy lights
    • By fairy lights 24th Feb 16, 10:14 AM
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    fairy lights
    But it is early days yet and we have got to give my sisters time to sort this out first.
    If after 3 to 6 months the executors my sisters still have not done anything. Then we can take them to court but not now.

    Because it has only been 5 weeks since Probate was granted. And we must first give my sisters time to get the house on the market.
    And give them time to deal with the estate.
    Originally posted by annbarbs
    So what exactly is the problem then?
    You know it's early days, you know they need time to get the house on the market. Your sister might be unhappy about having to move out but that doesn't mean she will refuse to leave or try to prevent you getting your inheritance.
    • jouef
    • By jouef 24th Feb 16, 10:15 AM
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    jouef
    ... indirectly housing benefits for rent subsidise the maintenance of the roof over your head, not so easy when you own.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Good point, and the OP seems disinclined to become a homebuyer anyway. Still helpful to know how things work though.
    ... With the amount of money you're getting, it should be kept in some form of high interest savings account, as you may be able to live on the interest ...
    Originally posted by Gigervamp
    I think there will be significantly less left after legal costs.
    [using inheritance to buy a property] would be considered to be deprivation of capital
    Originally posted by missbiggles1
    Thanks for the clarification. This area needs specialist advice, and it is necessary to consider and reject unsuitable options to arrive at the best option.
    My 2 sisters do not want to sell the house because my other sister who was living with mum before she died does not want to move out.
    Originally posted by annbarbs
    May I ask how you know this, if you do not have contact with them? It is not included in the information you had from their solicitor. Do you have information that they do not intend performing as fit executors (since they have not discussed an alternative course which would require your agreement)?
    • Gigervamp
    • By Gigervamp 24th Feb 16, 10:17 AM
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    Gigervamp
    I'm no expert on savings but I thought that high rate interest accounts are paying around 3%, giving an income of around only 3.5k which won't be enough for the OP to live on, even with DLA on top. It'll obviously last her a bit longer than my back of a fag packet calculation if you take interest into account but I can't see how she can live without using her capital to live on.
    Originally posted by missbiggles1
    I have no idea as I've never had that sort of money, but I do think it's important that OP gets financial advice for her own security.
  • archived user
    Anna, when you do finally get your inheritence, I think you should go and speak to an independent financial advisor.
    Well where can I find that?
    I have Googled "financial advisor" and all that's coming up is Solicitors or banks. I don't think they give financial on savings.
  • archived user
    I have just seen a page about Financial Advisers here on this forum.
    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/best-financial-advisers#find
    It seems like it's some kind of private service that you have to pay for.

    But I don't think it's worth it as from what I just read some of these people just want to take your money.

    I have mental health problems and cannot work. So when I get my inheritance I don't plan to do anything such as buy property or start my own business.

    I just want to carry on as I am living in my Housing Association or maybe moving to another HA or private flat if I cannot get a swap through the HA and pay rent as a tenant.

    So after the house is sold. I think the best thing for me to do is to go to my bank they have savings accounts that pay higher interest rates and can also advise on which account would be right for me.
    And you can also have more than one bank accounts and most people do.


    But of course my benefits would stop except for my DLA which I don't think is effected by savings according to this:
    http://www.sunderland.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=7295

    PIP and DLA are not means tested and not effected by how much savings you have.
    So I should still get my DLA when I get my money from my mums house after it's sold.

    But Both ESA and Housing and Council Tax Benefit are means tested and if savings go over 6000 those benefits are cut for every 250 you have over 6000 in savings.

    Then if your savings are 16000 and over they are stopped altogether. And you won't qualify for ESA or HB and CT Benefit again until your savings go below 16000.
    And you won't get the full benefit again unless your savings fall below 6000.
    So if a person has for example 12000 in savings they will still get ESA and HB but the amount they get would be reduced.

    But if the savings are 16,000 your ESA and HB as well as CT benefits is stopped.
    The only thing you would get is your DLA or PIP.
    But all other benefits will be stopped.
    But if your savings fall below 16,000 you can apply for ESA and HB again but only when your savings go below 16,000.

    Though obviously after my mums house is sold it is possible I might not get my 140k (114k from my mothers house and 25k of mums money she left to me.)
    As I and my sisters will each have to pay both the estate agents fees for selling the house plus any legal fees to the solicitor.
    As each sister including me will be eligible to pay these costs.
    And these costs will be split between the 3 of us, we will have a pay a thirds of these costs each.

    So even if I choose not to get my own solicitor and just deal with my sisters.
    I will still have to pay my share of the fess for the estate agents and solicitor the executives, my sisters for selling the house. The same as my other 2 sisters will have to.

    There may also be inheritance tax.
    So at the end of the day I and my sisters won't take home the full 140k.
    But even if I took home 90k that will last me at least 10 years which is quite a long time. But yes there will be a time when I will have to go back on benefits. I won't be able to live on my inheritance forever. But that won't be for a very long time.
    Last edited by annbarbs; 24-02-2016 at 3:29 PM.
    • Gigervamp
    • By Gigervamp 24th Feb 16, 3:15 PM
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    Gigervamp
    Have a read of this page from the Money Advice service.

    https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/choosing-a-financial-adviser

    It tells you what to look for, what rules a financial advisor has to follow etc.
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 24th Feb 16, 3:15 PM
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    Robin9
    Be more specific in your Google search and add the name of your town.

    Then talk to 3 of them and see what they advise.

    But its all too early to do that - there is a saying "don't count your chickens before the eggs are hatched"

    As many have advised you have to be patient - executing a will takes time, selling property takes time
    • missbiggles1
    • By missbiggles1 24th Feb 16, 3:35 PM
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    missbiggles1
    I have no idea as I've never had that sort of money, but I do think it's important that OP gets financial advice for her own security.
    Originally posted by Gigervamp
    That's obviously good advice as long as she doesn't expect an IFA to know anything about benefits and the effect that income/capital will have on them.
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