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  • FIRST POST
    Fae
    Fly Tipping Dispute
    • #1
    • 28th Aug 12, 6:31 PM
    Fly Tipping Dispute 28th Aug 12 at 6:31 PM
    Hi,

    Not sure if this is the correct place to post this, but hopefully it is.

    We moved house in March of this year, on the day we moved we left a small wooden shelf unit in the bin store, and contacted the council to arrange collection. Another resident noticed us leaving the unit, and demanded we take our rubbish with us, I explained that I had contacted the council and he left.

    The area we lived in had a management company, who take care of the upkeep of communal areas including the bin stores for a yearly fee. The Management company is made up of a group of residents.

    Today I recived a letter from the management company stating that a witness saw us illegally non domestice rubbish in the bin store, and enclosing an invoice for 80 for removal and admin fees. They are asking for payment within 14 days or they will proceed with the debt recovery procees, and have stated that if it proceeds to court then additional fees will be added to the final bill.

    The management company did have my email address, so I don't know why they didn't contact me before now, I don't know where they go my new address from, I assume from the estate agents (would this be breach of DPA ? )

    My questions are:

    Should they have tried to contact me by email to resolve the issue before resorting to incurring costs ? (if they had let me know the council hadn't collected I would have contacted them again or gone back and picked up the shelf myself, I had no intention of leaving it for someone else to deal with)

    Is a small wooden shelf unit classed as non domestic rubbish ?

    Should they have just contacted the council to find out why they hadn't collected ?

    We are going to contact them and ask why they didn't contact us by email, and also check that this does relate to the shelf unit as the letter doesn't say, and also ask for proof of the costs incurred, as the invoice is one that has been drawn up by the managment company and doesn't have any breakdown of the cost.

    Is there anything else that we should be doing ? what is our liabilty with this ?

    Any help much appricated

    Thanks
    Fae
    LBM 29/10/2013 14,218.00 As of 13/04/2014 6477.00
    Paid 54%
    3 months to go 13 weeks
    DFD 28th August 2014
Page 1
  • pickpocketlocket
    • #2
    • 28th Aug 12, 6:58 PM
    • #2
    • 28th Aug 12, 6:58 PM
    Did you not contact the council to ask why they had not collected it? Is it still there now?
  • Fae
    • #3
    • 28th Aug 12, 7:18 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Aug 12, 7:18 PM
    Because we had moved to a house 30 mins away we didn't know it hadn't been collected, but I see your point perhaps we should have checked.

    I assume as we are being invoiced for the removal that it has now gone.

    Fae
    LBM 29/10/2013 14,218.00 As of 13/04/2014 6477.00
    Paid 54%
    3 months to go 13 weeks
    DFD 28th August 2014
  • pickpocketlocket
    • #4
    • 28th Aug 12, 7:22 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Aug 12, 7:22 PM
    Because we had moved to a house 30 mins away we didn't know it hadn't been collected, but I see your point perhaps we should have checked.

    I assume as we are being invoiced for the removal that it has now gone.

    Fae
    Originally posted by Fae
    Yes, the responsibility for the item remains with you until it is removed. I would pay the charge.
    • ---lee---
    • By ---lee--- 28th Aug 12, 7:34 PM
    • 893 Posts
    • 363 Thanks
    ---lee---
    • #5
    • 28th Aug 12, 7:34 PM
    • #5
    • 28th Aug 12, 7:34 PM
    Sounds like a load of rubish to me (no pun intended).

    I don't see how a private company can issue you with a penalty.

    I would reply in writing/email and deny any knowledge of dumping 'non-domestic' refuse. I would not add any further detail. As you say, the only thing you left was a shelf and you made arrangments for it to be collected. That's not 'non-domestic' is it?

    For all you know, someone could have dumped a load of extra rubish and this could be what they are refering to. It all seems a bit vauge to me - I don't see how court action could ever occur.

    BTW, fly tipping on private land is a civil matter.
    • paddedjohn
    • By paddedjohn 28th Aug 12, 9:15 PM
    • 7,253 Posts
    • 7,903 Thanks
    paddedjohn
    • #6
    • 28th Aug 12, 9:15 PM
    • #6
    • 28th Aug 12, 9:15 PM
    Yes, the responsibility for the item remains with you until it is removed. I would pay the charge.
    Originally posted by pickpocketlocket

    Rubbish advice. They have no authority to charge you a penalty for flytipping, tell to go and whistle, the worst that can happen is that they could (very unlikely) try their luck in court and a judge in all probability would laugh at them. The only loss they have suffered is the cost of removing the offending item which was probably about a 5 unless they are a total bunch of fcuk-wits.
    Be Alert..........Britain needs lerts.
    • princeofpounds
    • By princeofpounds 29th Aug 12, 9:09 AM
    • 7,732 Posts
    • 10,175 Thanks
    princeofpounds
    • #7
    • 29th Aug 12, 9:09 AM
    • #7
    • 29th Aug 12, 9:09 AM
    There are no grounds for charging such a penalty.

    It is domestic waste; if your council does a bulky waste collection then it was perfectly reasonable to leave the item there for collection (after all, where else should it have gone?)
  • Fae
    • #8
    • 29th Aug 12, 10:14 AM
    • #8
    • 29th Aug 12, 10:14 AM
    Thanks so much for the replies, it's made me feel a lot more confident of my ground. We have gone back to them and explained that we didn't leave any non-domestic rubbish. We will see what they respond to that.

    If it does turn out to be the shelf, then I will ask details of when it was removed, to make sure they did allow the council time to remove it, and also for proof of the cost of removal (receipt) which I'm sure will be less than 80, and if it's reasonable I will pay that (mostly because otherwise the cost will be passed onto the other residents in the yearly managment charge, which I feel is unfair on them) I will not pay any fine, or extra fees that they have added.

    Once again many thanks for the replies

    Fae
    LBM 29/10/2013 14,218.00 As of 13/04/2014 6477.00
    Paid 54%
    3 months to go 13 weeks
    DFD 28th August 2014
    • lucy03
    • By lucy03 29th Aug 12, 1:37 PM
    • 473 Posts
    • 567 Thanks
    lucy03
    • #9
    • 29th Aug 12, 1:37 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Aug 12, 1:37 PM
    Rubbish advice. They have no authority to charge you a penalty for flytipping, tell to go and whistle, the worst that can happen is that they could (very unlikely) try their luck in court and a judge in all probability would laugh at them. The only loss they have suffered is the cost of removing the offending item which was probably about a 5 unless they are a total bunch of fcuk-wits.
    Originally posted by paddedjohn
    I would agree that it is unlikely this is a charge which the management company could easily pursue, although it's unlikely to be the case that a judge would laugh at them in my view. Small claims courts can make some erratic decisions, and it's also worth bearing in mind that if the management company does pursue such a civil action, it's a waste of your time if nothing else. So personally I think you're right to reply requesting further information such as times and the like, to avoid them taking it further.

    However I'm surprised the above poster is able to get rid of items for 5 unless it's one of the councils which collects over-sized items for free to avoid them being fly-tipped. A management company I have links with has had to agree with the council a fee every time a large item is left near the private bins area and although it's a reasonable agreement, it is still substantially more than 5 per item. They had no choice otherwise the council would just leave the over-sized items where they were left.
    • princeofpounds
    • By princeofpounds 29th Aug 12, 2:26 PM
    • 7,732 Posts
    • 10,175 Thanks
    princeofpounds
    However I'm surprised the above poster is able to get rid of items for 5 unless it's one of the councils which collects over-sized items for free to avoid them being fly-tipped. A management company I have links with has had to agree with the council a fee every time a large item is left near the private bins area and although it's a reasonable agreement, it is still substantially more than 5 per item. They had no choice otherwise the council would just leave the over-sized items where they were left.
    The last 2 councils I have lived under would give a limited number of free collections. I don't think it's that rare to have small charges.
    • woodbine
    • By woodbine 29th Aug 12, 9:24 PM
    • 18,323 Posts
    • 24,707 Thanks
    woodbine
    our last council charged 15 for 5 items(any size)
    • Fosterdog
    • By Fosterdog 30th Aug 12, 10:29 AM
    • 4,316 Posts
    • 7,514 Thanks
    Fosterdog
    Our council charges 10 for 6 items or 5 for OAPs or anyone in receipt of benefits. The next county over get two items free and 5 for a further 2 items up to a maximum of 10 items at a time.

    It's not unreasonable for a council to agree to collect a single item free.

    OP have you contacted the council again? They may have a record of your request on file which will help your case against paying the fee. 80 is way too much as a charge for this, 10-20 to allow for wages and travel costs to remove it would be the most I would expect.
  • Fae
    Hi

    No Fosterdog I haven't contacted the council, that's a good point, I'll give them a call and see if they have a record of our request.

    Thanks for the help

    Fae
    LBM 29/10/2013 14,218.00 As of 13/04/2014 6477.00
    Paid 54%
    3 months to go 13 weeks
    DFD 28th August 2014
  • Fae
    Just thought I would update this, we wrote to the management company requesting details of what rubbish they had to get rid of, and a copy of the invoice, but didn't get a reply. We contacted the, a further two times requesting this, and on the last attempt said that if we didn't hear from them by a set date we would consider the matter closed, again we didn't get a reply.
    So I'm very glad that we asked for the extra information as it does look at though they were trying it on.

    Fae
    LBM 29/10/2013 14,218.00 As of 13/04/2014 6477.00
    Paid 54%
    3 months to go 13 weeks
    DFD 28th August 2014
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