Additional NHS Pension or SIPP?

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  • I am also looking into making additional payments as later starter starting pension and work part time, anyone advise on benefits of paying additional payments into NHS pension than others and how I work out how much more I pay that is more tax efficient?
  • louloubelle79
    louloubelle79 Posts: 411 Forumite
    First Post
    I am also seeking similar advice...made additional payments into NHS pension or set up own private pension??. I work part time and only started pension in NHS last year (age 36).
  • I have the same issue. I've put my workings below. Im 44. I've already got some money in a private pension, and have just started with the NHS. I think I would want to buy some kind of annuity, with part of my pension, as a hedge against living to very old age. So, for me, I think buying additional contributions is a good idea.

    Inner london point 31 - 45,000 so 9.3% pension deduction

    (12.5% pension bracket 47,846 Contribution rate (before tax relief) (gross) 1 April 2015 to 31 March 2019)

    NI on 45,000 is £4,389

    PAYE on 45,000 is £6,630

    Yearly take home is 33,981 and monthly take home is 2,831

    Additional years calculator for 1000 costs 772.40 per month and 9268 per year.

    So, NI remains the same at £4,389, but PAYE decreases to £4,776 standard pension on 9.3% on 45,000 remains £4185. £9268 is used for additional pension, so 22,382 take home per year or £1865 per month

    NHS Benefits at 67
    45,000 / 54 = 833, + 1000 is £1833 per year worked at a cost of 4185 + 7414 = 11,599

    (PAYE without additional years contribution is £6630 with contributions its £4776, so the difference is 1854 which needs to be deducted from the cost of the addition years 9268-1854 = 7414)

    Private benefits at 67 – annuity tables
    £1750 per year (RPI) will cost £50,000.
  • hugheskevi
    hugheskevi Posts: 3,838 Forumite
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    edited 24 July 2018 at 10:27PM
    I've already got some money in a private pension, and have just started with the NHS. I think I would want to buy some kind of annuity, with part of my pension, as a hedge against living to very old age.
    Have you considered transferring your private pension into the NHS pension?
    Inner london point 31 - 45,000 so 9.3% pension deduction
    You are not a higher rate taxpayer. Do you expect to be in the future? If so, you would want to arrange your contributions so as to ensure you get most benefit from higher rate relief.
    Yearly take home is 33,981 and monthly take home is 2,831
    You are presumably going to be in the main NHS pension scheme regardless of your choice about any additional pension saving. Isn't it easier to start from a position of being in the scheme (ie include figures net of the 9.3% contribution and impact on PAYE)?
    Additional years calculator
    You mean Added Pension calculator presumably.
    but PAYE decreases to £4,776 standard pension on 9.3% on 45,000 remains £4185.
    Don't understand what you are trying to calculate here. You could not purchase Added Pension without participating in the main scheme, so why only include the Added Pension contribution in the change to PAYE and not main scheme contribution?
    £9268 is used for additional pension, so 22,382 take home per year or £1865 per month
    You would be earning £45,000 and making pension contributions of £4,185+£9,268=13,453. Including NICs and Income Tax, I make that a net amount of £23,220 p/a or £1,935 monthly.
    NHS Benefits at 67
    Note that under DWP proposals around State Pension age your State Pension will be higher than age 67 if implemented. Unfortunately this would mean you are paying for benefits with the price based on an age of 67 but the benefits may well be paid later than this.
    45,000 / 54 = 833, + 1000 is £1833 per year worked at a cost of 4185 + 7414 = 11,599
    You have applied 20% tax relief to the Added Pension contributions, but not to the main scheme contributions? Why?
    45,000 / 54 = 833, + 1000 is £1833 per year worked at a cost of 4185 + 7414 = 11,599
    The main scheme pension benefits are revalued above CPI (CPI+1.5% whilst you are an active member).
    Private benefits at 67 - annuity tables
    £1750 per year (RPI) will cost £50,000.
    RPI is a higher escalation rate than CPI, so it is not a like-for-like comparison (c1 percentage point annual difference compounded over 20+ years is significant).
  • crv1963
    crv1963 Posts: 1,372 Forumite
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    edited 24 July 2018 at 11:11PM
    Hi jscol,


    I'd suggest before deciding your best option you look at a couple of other things (sorry to muddy your waters!).


    What retirement income are you looking at-


    i) Are you both retiring around about the same time? We're in our early 50s (me just!) and want to retire at the same time, so younger by 3 years wife needs a bit more saved to fund that.
    ii) How much is your income aim in retirement? As someone probably hitting or approaching LTA and public sector pension you're probably looking at a £40k pa pension? Look at what you think you'll need jointly to fund the retirement you want, look at the whats your number thread for ideas how to work it out?
    Work out the minimum you think you'll need, over estimate outgoings and underestimate income to give a favourable margin of error.
    iii) How much do you need if she dies first?
    iv) How much does your wife need if you go first?
    v) Does your wife want to retire before NHS retirement age- probably yes as it will be a minimum of 67, so plan to save into her pension as a guaranteed index income comes from your pension, her NHS pension and SP. You could save in a SIPP maximise contributions and then draw down up to her annual tax allowance (our plan), if you don't need the income you have more options- a) give the children a monthly allowance- any regular gift from income doesn't attract income tax or go against your IHT allowance or if you think you might need it later, put it in an ISA.
    vi) Children- at what point will they finish education and how much support are you going to give financially? Are you planning on giving helping hands for weddings/ first house/ car insurance?


    We through this forum and a lot of reading up are= maximising my wife pension contributions, drawing this down (when it comes to it) and using it to have as income to match her SP which will kick in about 12 years after she retires. Obviously our pots are not as large as yours but it suits us and is what we think we can manage. We're reckoning her survivors pension from my NHS pension and her SP will be enough for her to live on, plus our lumps sums will create "pots" each for cars, house repairs and if need be care fees (thinking being if I/ she needs care then driving won't be an option!).


    Best wishes


    CRV


    Edit- I'd be biased towards forming a pot that is independent of the public sector to build a pot that allows- even if drawn down to zero- your wife the option of early retirement before NHS pension kicks in. That way she can retire with an unreduced NHS pension. I see little point in buying extra NHS pension years/ income when your pension has the index linking it has, along with her eventual NHS pension and your SPs. You can't buy time together!
    CRV1963- Light bulb moment Sept 15- Planning the great escape- aka retirement!
  • Joeygirl72
    Joeygirl72 Posts: 16 Forumite
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    Hi, I am in an NHS scheme too. (I am 45 with no dependants other than my husband) It is a great way to save. But I have a SIPP too ( great as you get tax relief) As I have not been working for them all my life, I don't really count my NHS pension in my calculations for when I will retire ( virtually impossible to get a projection from them that makes any sense). If they change the rules, I would look at transferring it into my SIPP when I leave. The great thing about a SIPP is the flexibility, once you are 55 you can access some of the cash.
    Never really liked the inflexibility of DB schemes (unless they are huge).
    We have an age gap, so 2/3rd spouse with any of these type of schemes would be awful, if I were the survivor ( they assume you are 3 years younger).
    Also, I have been an investor for many years, I have learnt about 'not keeping all your eggs in one basket.'
  • hugheskevi
    hugheskevi Posts: 3,838 Forumite
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    If they change the rules, I would look at transferring it into my SIPP when I leave.
    Transfers to DC from unfunded public sector DB schemes are not permitted.
    The great thing about a SIPP is the flexibility, once you are 55 you can access some of the cash.
    HM Treasury announced in a consultation response several years ago this would increase to State Pension age minus 10 (although it has not been legislated for).
  • saucer
    saucer Posts: 417 Forumite
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    hugheskevi wrote: »

    HM Treasury announced in a consultation response several years ago this would increase to State Pension age minus 10 (although it has not been legislated for).


    I have been working on the assumption that this is going to be introduced gradually as suggested by this https://www.pensionbee.com/pensions-explained/pension-rules/pensions-age?ast=c3q2l9
  • hugheskevi
    hugheskevi Posts: 3,838 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Car Insurance Carver!
    I have been working on the assumption that this is going to be introduced gradually as suggested by this https://www.pensionbee.com/pensions-explained/pension-rules/pensions-age?ast=c3q2l9

    The article is rather too definitive. The exact position is:

    Under the Coalition govt back in July 2014, HM Treasury announced in a response to a consultation that minimum pension age would be linked to state pension age minus 10 years. It was stated that the change would be legislated for at a later date, which still has not happened.

    The consultation stated that the change would apply from when the State Pension age reached 67 in 2028. However, the lack of legislation means many details are left unanswered. The key outstanding questions are:

    • Does the current government (which being a Conservative minority is a completely different government to that which made the decision to increase minimum pension age) intend to enact the policy change announced in the Coalition consultation response? As well as being a completely different government there are now many different priorities.

    • If the change is legislated for, will the shorter time to the change taking effect mean the delay is put back to give people adequate notice to change their plans?

    • Will the increase be a cliff-edge in 2028, or will the increase be tapered in, eg, starting in 2024, aligning with state pension age in 2026 and then tracking with the state pension age increase to 67 by 2028. In the original consultation it was stated "The transition to this age will need to begin before 2028 and the government will provide further detail on this in its summary of responses to this consultation" However, there was no mention of this in the consultation response.

    • Will protection be given, as it was when minimum pension age last increased in 2010, for those with existing pension arrangements at a particular date?
  • louloubelle79
    louloubelle79 Posts: 411 Forumite
    First Post
    edited 18 August 2018 at 11:45AM
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