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  • FIRST POST
    • mgbond
    • By mgbond 28th Nov 18, 11:13 AM
    • 26Posts
    • 7Thanks
    mgbond
    What do I need for a full system.
    • #1
    • 28th Nov 18, 11:13 AM
    What do I need for a full system. 28th Nov 18 at 11:13 AM
    Hi,

    Has anyone used UK Energy Solutions, Got them coming round for full system quote. This is what I understand so far that I should get:

    1. As many panels as I can and the large output one. Although this may take my over the allowed limit it wonít matter as the inverter will cap it.
    2. Battery storage, looks like itís not that much more, but should I set the provision for it and wait a couple of years before adding a battery.
    3. I really like the idea of the Air to water heat pumps that can connect up to my current hot water meaning no gas needed for tank heat or radiators? Is this a good idea?
    4. If using a heat pump, make sure it doesnít have the chemicals in it that will soon be banned.

    Any other advice?

    Thanks

    Martin
Page 1
    • Exiled Tyke
    • By Exiled Tyke 28th Nov 18, 11:57 AM
    • 318 Posts
    • 918 Thanks
    Exiled Tyke
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 18, 11:57 AM
    • #2
    • 28th Nov 18, 11:57 AM
    Some thoughts:

    1. Agreed
    2. Battery storage is still not financially viable as the costs are still greater than from buying from the grid. Current rules allow reduced VAT if buying with a system - but a system could just be one extra panel with a micro inverter - you could possible leave room and capacity for this should costs decrease.
    3. I looked at this and decided it wasn’t viable. The systems are very expensive and unlikely to pay for themselves. My current boiler should be about 24kW which if it were on full time for lets day 5 hours a day would use 120 kWh. Assuming a COP of around 4 - that means I neeed 30 kWh of electricity to run it. At this time of year I’m lucky to get between one and two kWh - so I get around 20-30 p of free electricity. It’s fair to assume running costs of the heat pump to be around the same as that of a gas boiler. So this 20-30p saving is about all there is to be had which will never pay back the investment of the pump.
    4. I think is academic.

    Hope this helps
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    • mgbond
    • By mgbond 28th Nov 18, 10:45 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    mgbond
    • #3
    • 28th Nov 18, 10:45 PM
    • #3
    • 28th Nov 18, 10:45 PM
    Thanks for your input.
    • mgbond
    • By mgbond 28th Nov 18, 10:46 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    mgbond
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 18, 10:46 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 18, 10:46 PM
    What about air to air heat pumps?
    • Exiled Tyke
    • By Exiled Tyke 29th Nov 18, 7:51 AM
    • 318 Posts
    • 918 Thanks
    Exiled Tyke
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 18, 7:51 AM
    • #5
    • 29th Nov 18, 7:51 AM
    What about air to air heat pumps?
    Originally posted by mgbond
    There is a thread on here covering PV homes with ASHPs. Experiences appear to be very good. An ASHP isn't anything like as expensive and can be used to provide supplementary heat in spring and autumn (as well as as cooling in summer). Get one installed in the right place in the house and it may also save by heating a small area of the house at times when you don't need the full central heating system on. I do like the idea although for me personally the numbers don't quite work out either
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    • Coastalwatch
    • By Coastalwatch 29th Nov 18, 10:39 AM
    • 346 Posts
    • 1,384 Thanks
    Coastalwatch
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 18, 10:39 AM
    • #6
    • 29th Nov 18, 10:39 AM
    Hi Martin, just to add a little to ET's lines I've added a link to the thread to which I believe he is referring below.
    Having had Solar installed only this last April I'm all rather new to this as well. However if you follow the thread below you will see my contributions, mostly seeking advice, so have benefitted from the sound advice passed on by other members. ET is correct in that the thread was originally set up to utilise spare solar energy produced through spring, summer and autumn. Heating in spring, autumn then cooling in summer. With air to air heat pumps delivering around 4/5 kWh of heat for every single kWh of electricity consumed then the cost of heating, even when being drawn from the grid, is reduced to that paid for gas, or possibly even less. Naturally some of the time it will run purely by the solar panels.

    As there name suggests I don't believe they can be used for heating water and therefore not able to feed your radiators. But if you are keen on reducing your dependency on FF,s then they are certainly worthy of consideration. Given the right circumstances they can be used to replace conventional radiator systems as we shall be trialing this winter.

    We've had a single unit installed in the lounge of our bungalow as the thread originally suggested. This heats our lounge/diner and also the hall leading from it. If you follow the thread you will discover we are planning a second unit in our small lobby from which doors to the bathroom, two bedrooms and hall open from it. Given that bedrooms are not usually heated as much as other rooms we are hoping this second unit will make the bathroom toasty while supplying just sufficient heat to the bedrooms also. I may be being a little optimistic but am hoping the two units could make our existing gas powered CH system redundant.
    As stated it may not suit every property but I believe is a cost effective(both in installation and running costs) means of replacing an existing heating system and well worth spending the time investigating to see if it would suit your home.

    I'm sure others more experienced will add their thoughts/advice too.


    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4715287
    East coast, lat 51.97. 8.26kw SSE, 23į pitch + 0.59kw WSW vertical. Nissan Leaf plus one dirty diesel. Still waiting for V2H and home storage to become available at sensible cost.
    • mgbond
    • By mgbond 3rd Dec 18, 8:22 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    mgbond
    • #7
    • 3rd Dec 18, 8:22 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Dec 18, 8:22 PM
    Hi Guys,

    I had someone round today and have a price for Solar that I would like to run past you all.

    14 panels 300w Q Cell (German company) 13yr warranty and 25yr Guarantee.
    1 x Solar Edge wave System (20yr warranty)

    £8120 and that is inclusive of Vat

    They also have a Me Boost fitted £600 and that diverts any excess production to the Emersion tank until it’s heated. I’m sure you can get them cheaper than that though.

    What do you think

    For info my roof is 65 Deg Eeast to South and 22deg pitched roof. We settled on 8 front and 4 back to give more spread over the day rather than max. This would give 3,848 kWh from a 4.2kw system

    Martin
    Last edited by mgbond; 03-12-2018 at 8:36 PM.
    • Zarch
    • By Zarch 3rd Dec 18, 8:40 PM
    • 154 Posts
    • 363 Thanks
    Zarch
    • #8
    • 3rd Dec 18, 8:40 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Dec 18, 8:40 PM
    Seems overpriced to me.

    I had 17 x 300w, each with an optimser and a solar edge inverter across 4 different roofs, including a flat one, for £6200 back in September. I'd hope that prices will continue to fall.

    The iBoost thing is about £300.
    https://www.marlec.co.uk/product/solar-iboost/?v=79cba1185463

    You said 14 x 300w, but then said 8 on the front, 4 on the back? Is it 12 or 14?

    Is there anything stopping you having more panels (aside from cost?). Remember, this is a one off install and the FIT can only be applied for once against the first install. And no one ever said 'less solar is better'.
    5.1kWp system, 17 x 300w JA panels, full 3680 SolarEdge in Sunny Sheffield.
    3 x NE, 14 x SW at various pitches on multiple aspects.
    Installed by CTS Renewables, September 2018.
    • mgbond
    • By mgbond 4th Dec 18, 12:42 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    mgbond
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 18, 12:42 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Dec 18, 12:42 PM
    Seems overpriced to me.

    I had 17 x 300w, each with an optimser and a solar edge inverter across 4 different roofs, including a flat one, for £6200 back in September. I'd hope that prices will continue to fall.

    The iBoost thing is about £300.
    https://www.marlec.co.uk/product/solar-iboost/?v=79cba1185463

    You said 14 x 300w, but then said 8 on the front, 4 on the back? Is it 12 or 14?

    Is there anything stopping you having more panels (aside from cost?). Remember, this is a one off install and the FIT can only be applied for once against the first install. And no one ever said 'less solar is better'.
    Originally posted by Zarch

    Sorry, that was 6 on the back.


    My understanding is that I would have to apply to have more than a 4.2kwh system so having more panels would mean I need to request permission right?


    Who did you use? and was that inc Vat


    Martin
    • Zarch
    • By Zarch 4th Dec 18, 12:56 PM
    • 154 Posts
    • 363 Thanks
    Zarch
    Installation company in sig; CTS Renewables. Yep, including VAT and everything.

    As per details in this quote thread: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5928038

    You need no permission as long as you don't install greater than a 3.68kwh inverter. I have 5.1 of panels on a 3.68 intervter, no DNO permission required.

    On a split aspect install, sticking with a 3.68 inverter can make sense as you are unlikely to get the full beans out of two lots of panels facing different directions at the same time.

    The only time you need DNO permission (G59) is when you install an inverter greater than 3.68. So maybe you have 5.5kwh of panels facing the same way and a 5kwh inverter makes sense. The installer should be able to advise on this.

    Depending on your region (and local power authority) there may be a charge for the application, so worth checking. Northern Power wanted £300 for my application. I didn't think i'd get that back in FIT over the long term, so went with the 3.68 inverter instead and saved the money. But your situation may be different, so i'd suggest getting Excel on the go and do some maths if required.

    Hope this helps.
    5.1kWp system, 17 x 300w JA panels, full 3680 SolarEdge in Sunny Sheffield.
    3 x NE, 14 x SW at various pitches on multiple aspects.
    Installed by CTS Renewables, September 2018.
    • mgbond
    • By mgbond 4th Dec 18, 1:10 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    mgbond
    Installation company in sig; CTS Renewables. Yep, including VAT and everything.

    As per details in this quote thread: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5928038

    You need no permission as long as you don't install greater than a 3.68kwh inverter. I have 5.1 of panels on a 3.68 intervter, no DNO permission required.

    On a split aspect install, sticking with a 3.68 inverter can make sense as you are unlikely to get the full beans out of two lots of panels facing different directions at the same time.

    The only time you need DNO permission (G59) is when you install an inverter greater than 3.68. So maybe you have 5.5kwh of panels facing the same way and a 5kwh inverter makes sense. The installer should be able to advise on this.

    Depending on your region (and local power authority) there may be a charge for the application, so worth checking. Northern Power wanted £300 for my application. I didn't think i'd get that back in FIT over the long term, so went with the 3.68 inverter instead and saved the money. But your situation may be different, so i'd suggest getting Excel on the go and do some maths if required.

    Hope this helps.
    Originally posted by Zarch

    Perfect, thanks.


    Here is a contentious one. How about Ikea, their Roof plus offer is 295kwh panels and 16 panels at around 7k. However they do not use micro inverters or Solar Edge?
    • Zarch
    • By Zarch 4th Dec 18, 1:20 PM
    • 154 Posts
    • 363 Thanks
    Zarch
    Perfect, thanks.


    Here is a contentious one. How about Ikea, their Roof plus offer is 295kwh panels and 16 panels at around 7k. However they do not use micro inverters or Solar Edge?
    Originally posted by mgbond
    Probably still a bit pricey. The Solar Edge optimisers are around £50 each, so they can add up on a larger system.

    But you don't always need solar edge. Shade is the main reason you'd need it. Do you have any shade issues?

    Without SE.... on two aspects you'd put each aspect on a separate string so they'd work independently. But any shade at all and every panel in the whole string would only perform at the input of the worst one in the string. This is where Solar Edges comes in with the micro inverters/optimisers as they allow each panel to work in isolation and are not affected by any other panel. So they'd work to their maximum regardless if others are in shade.

    So really take a look up over this week, throughout the day at where you may or may not have shade.

    Also, a general price to shoot for around £1k per 1kWh of system....... or slightly higher when factoring in the price of Solar Edge, but not by too much.
    Last edited by Zarch; 04-12-2018 at 1:37 PM.
    5.1kWp system, 17 x 300w JA panels, full 3680 SolarEdge in Sunny Sheffield.
    3 x NE, 14 x SW at various pitches on multiple aspects.
    Installed by CTS Renewables, September 2018.
    • mgbond
    • By mgbond 4th Dec 18, 1:36 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    mgbond
    Probably still a bit pricey. The Solar Edge optimisers are around £50 each, so they can add up on a larger system.

    But you don't always need solar edge. Shade is the main reason you'd need it. Do you have any shade issues?

    Without SE.... on two aspects you'd put each aspect on a separate string so they'd work independently. But any shade at all and every panel in the whole string would only perform at the input of the worst one in the string. This is where Solar Edges comes in with the micro inverters/optimisers as they allow each panel to work in isolation and are not affected by any other panel. So they'd work to their maximum regardless if others are in shade.

    So really take a look up over this week, throughout the day at where you may or may not have shade.

    Also, a general price to aim for is £1k per 1kWh of system....... this might be slightly higher when factoring in the price of Solar Edge, but not by too much.
    Originally posted by Zarch

    Sorry that was for 18 panels. my roof is 22deg and doesn't get shade as such.
    in the winter the sun is low but the roof is higher than any trees
    • mgbond
    • By mgbond 4th Dec 18, 2:21 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    mgbond
    Sorry that was for 18 panels. my roof is 22deg and doesn't get shade as such.
    in the winter the sun is low but the roof is higher than any trees
    Originally posted by mgbond

    Told a fib, Trees to the south of the property are a bit higher than the house.


    • mgbond
    • By mgbond 4th Dec 18, 2:25 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    mgbond
    Trying to load up a picture but it doesn't seem to be working. this is such a clunky Forum platform.


    Last edited by mgbond; 04-12-2018 at 3:28 PM.
    • theboylard
    • By theboylard 5th Dec 18, 11:55 AM
    • 1,166 Posts
    • 2,813 Thanks
    theboylard
    Drop the pic on https://postimages.org/, don't need to register, then copy the link and hit the insert image link in a reply.


    Yes it is clunky!!
    4kWp, SSE, 16 x 250w EcoFuture BoB with retro-fitted SolarEdge P300 optimisers & SE3500 Inverter, in occasionally sunny Corby, Northants.
    • mgbond
    • By mgbond 6th Dec 18, 6:31 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    mgbond
    Just had a quote from Ikea. Looks ok. Although I’m now looking to go bigger and apply for over a 5kw system

    https://postimg.cc/gallery/2j0sslrb6/
    • mgbond
    • By mgbond 7th Dec 18, 10:10 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    mgbond
    Do people know of Contact Solar. They have quoted 5300 for a 5.1kw system (16, 295 Q cell panels). And 8300 for 18 panels with 4.8kw storage. I can up that to 23 panels with the storage for 10,000. So 6.785kw system.

    What do you think
    • mgbond
    • By mgbond 7th Dec 18, 1:06 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    mgbond
    Just got them to re quote. 17 panels £5600. 20 panels with 4.8kw Storage £9000.

    What do you think
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 7th Dec 18, 2:43 PM
    • 4,435 Posts
    • 5,935 Thanks
    zeupater
    Just got them to re quote. 17 panels £5600. 20 panels with 4.8kw Storage £9000.

    What do you think
    Originally posted by mgbond
    Hi

    I think that you need to decide on what you want the system to look like on the roof, settle on how many panels you want and then think about whether you want a battery system installed at the same time ...

    The last 2 short posts alone have mentioned 16, 17, 18, 20 & 23 panels! ...

    When you're looking to re-negotiate the idea is to tell them that they are too expensive on a existing offer and to reduce the prices, for example, moving from 18panels+4800Wh stg for £8300 to 20panels for £9k simply gives them an extra 2 panels of sales at £350each which would be higher than they'd have built into the original bid .... ie your comparable 16 panel system for £5.3k (without the battery) only works out at £331/panel(5300/16) before inverter, cables, scaffold etc! ... not a good value alternative!

    Prices don't look too bad though, but best settle on what you want first, ask your questions, then drive for a good deal with the supplier ... don't let them try to take control through introducing the complexity of alternative which may (a) not suit your requirements & (b) don't offer better value.


    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
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