Premier Park LTD PCN

Kiddo79 · 11 September 2016 at 8:59AM

Hello all,

I am a long time reader of MSE forums but this is my first post since I was most unpleasantly surprised when a Premier Park LTD PCN letter came through my door yesterday. I would like some clarification on what to do please.

I still have the car parking ticket stating that the ticket at was purchased 12.25 even though the letter shows a time stamped picture of the car entering the car park at 12.20. The car exited the car park at 14.36 according to the second picture. An overstay of 11 minutes according to the ticket or 16 minutes according to the pictures. I am of course willing to pay for the time overstayed which amounts to a few pence but am unwilling to pay the excessive £50 that they are demanding or £85 if the £50 is not paid in 14 days from the 6th September 2016.

Please can someone explain what procedure I need to go through to appeal this decision?

Many thanks in advance!

Umkomaas · 11 September 2016 at 9:33AM

You've come to the right place for help in fighting this.

Please read the newbies FAQ sticky, near the top of the forum thread list, one page back from here. Posts #1 and #2 (for acronym descriptions) are all you need at this stage. You will need to use the blue text appeal and send that in (no amendments at all) to the PPC as per their instructions on the letter they sent to you. Make sure you add your name and address.

The purpose of the initial appeal (whose outcome is a guaranteed rejection) is to elicit a POPLA code where your appeal there can be won - with some research here, and our help in making sure you cover everything.

One of the main points you will be focusing on is 'grace periods', so please familiarise yourself with the grace periods from the Code of Practice of the PPC's Association - the BPA. Your period of parking would appear to fall within the parameters of the grace periods, so this can be won at POPLA. Here's the link to their CoP - do have a read of it.

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS_Code_of_Practice_October_2015_update_V6..pdf

HTH

Redx · 11 September 2016 at 9:46AM

as above , their parking cameras recorded time on site , not parking time , you correctly paid for parking time as part of your contract

the "overstay" is covered in the BPA CoP , clause #13 , both BEFORE and AFTER the paid for parking time

assume up to 10 minutes to enter , park , read the signs , buy a parking ticket (glad you still have it , many people stupidly throw them away and lose vital evidence)

then you have OVER 10 minutes to leave

combined you had up to about 20 minutes to do what needed to be done , paying for the time the vehicle was actually parked

this will be one of several appeal points at popla (do not expect them to cancel, these companies rarely cancel as there is no profit in it)

a complaint should also be made to the BPA , citing a breach of clause #13 of the BPA CoP and providing copies of the ticket and a copy of the pcn as well

these companies need to adjust their computers to take account of this , by making it issue tickets after say 20 minutes overstay, or 30 minutes overstay , not 16 minutes or less like in your case

when you get your popla code, draft a popla appeal based on clause #13 as point 1)

then on the following points too

no landowner contract
poor or inadequate signage that fails the BPA CoP
any NTK failures
ant POFA2012 failures
no driver identified

etc etc

at no point do you reveal who was driving , this is a keeper based appeal , so assume I was driving (so you dont make mistakes)

Elysander · 11 September 2016 at 11:05AM

Does your pcn state that 'If within 28 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we have the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the keeper of the vehicle'? Premier Park have lost several Popla cases for including this statement as it does not comply with the regulations laid out in Pofa, and therefore a keeper cannot be held liable.

Coupon-mad · 11 September 2016 at 3:06PM

Elysander wrote: »

Does your pcn state that 'If within 28 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we have the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the keeper of the vehicle'? Premier Park have lost several Popla cases for including this statement as it does not comply with the regulations laid out in Pofa, and therefore a keeper cannot be held liable.

Quite right. We are winning all POPLA cases v PP on this basis, as long as the victims do not appeal in a weak way, implying or admitting who was driving.

The OP just needs to search the forum for 'POPLA Premier' to see a worked example of a decent POPLA appeal from recent weeks v PP. In the meantime he/she just needs to submit the usual blue writing appeal from the NEWBIES thread, online, as keeper (NOT DRIVER).

Kiddo79 · 12 September 2016 at 8:46AM

Thanks for the information and your help in this matter! Just to be 100% sure is this the letter I should email to them?(including my name and address) If so I will get on and send it and expect their rejection letter in due course. Should I also attach the ticket I obtained from the car park as evidence?

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Kiddo79 · 12 September 2016 at 8:48AM

Yes, It says,
"If within 29 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under section 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012, we have the right, subject to requirements of the act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the keeper of the vehicle"

Coupon-mad · 12 September 2016 at 4:43PM

Kiddo79 wrote: »

Yes, It says,
"If within 29 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under section 4 of the protection of freedoms act 2012, we have the right, subject to requirements of the act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the keeper of the vehicle"

Good, that misstates the 29 days and the words 'driver details' are too vague.

Submit the appeal you have quote ONLINE if PP still allow that method of appeal, NOT by snail mail letter, not even recorded delivery, nope.

Kiddo79 · 12 September 2016 at 7:57PM

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Good, that misstates the 29 days and the words 'driver details' are too vague.

Submit the appeal you have quote ONLINE if PP still allow that method of appeal, NOT by snail mail letter, not even recorded delivery, nope.

It was a online form. I have submitted it as per the blue letter on the newbies page and unchanged. They have said they will respond within 14 days. I will check back with you all when I get a response.

Many thanks again for everyone's help thus far.

Kiddo79 · 14 September 2016 at 5:19PM

Hello all,

They have replied!

"Dear me,

Re: Parking Charge Notice xxxxxx

We write to acknowledge receipt of your recent online appeal, on behalf of the driver, appealing against the issuing of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) to the vehicle.

We note your comments and must refer you to the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012, Schedule 4 - Recovery of unpaid Parking Charges. This is available to view online at:
(legislation site)

We must therefore request that the details of the driver of the vehicle at the time of the contravention are supplied; this must include their full name and serviceable UK postal address. If you are unwilling or unable to provide these details the registered keeper of this vehicle will remain liable for this PCN. This information should be provided by 28th September 2016.

If we do not receive this information by the date given, the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date of event will be held liable.

If you would like to view our photographic evidence, please visit (blah blah blah)

Please respond by return or by filling in the Transfer of Liability form on the reverse of the PCN and posting it to Premier Park, PO Box 624, Exeter, EX1 9JG.

Yours Sincerely,"

Please can someone advise what I do next? There is no POPLA code I noticed...

Castle · 14 September 2016 at 5:39PM

Kiddo79 wrote: »

Please can someone advise what I do next? There is no POPLA code I noticed...

You do nothing and within 35 days a POPLA code should arrive

Premier Park LTD PCN

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