Excel Parking, BW Legal and now what looks like court papers

Xanthanan · 29 August 2016 at 1:27AM

Lol I just realised, they have missed my surname completely off the court claim, is that something else I can use?
Lets say my name was (which it isn't):
Mr Frederick James Bootham
The court papers are for Mr Frederick James but with the correct address.

Coupon-mad · 29 August 2016 at 2:14AM

Xanthanan wrote: »

Would I be better to use the "Acknowledgement of service" option due to being in the USA until the 16th Sept?

Yes, that's what I meant by this advice:

You need to URGENTLY acknowledge the claim online by using the Government Gateway password on the claim form, leaving the defence box blank and ticking 'no' to contesting jurisdiction. Say you will defend in full but leave the actual 'defence' box BLANK for now.

Then you will have extended the time to 28 days from service of the court papers.

Firstly, the notice has an issue date 65 days after the 'offence' date quoted in the letter. I seem to remember seeing somewhere (darn my terrible memory) that the original notice must arrive after a certain number of days, I wonder if they missed that maximum number of days due to having to contact the hire company.

Yes that goes into the defence (when you are back from the US). As the vehicle was hired, the PCN needed to arrive earlier and had to attach the hire documentation (which we know it didn't). Read the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 (para 13/14, on hirer liability). They failed, you are not liable in law.

The original PCN also shows that the vehicle was in the car park for a total of 16 minutes, meaning 6 minutes of 'overstay' (the hourly rate of the penalty charge is therefore rather large)

Who says there was only ten minutes grace? Some car parks have 15 or 20 minutes written into the landowner contract. Doesn't seem like an overstay.

I just realised, they have missed my surname completely off the court claim, is that something else I can use?
Lets say my name was (which it isn't):
Mr Frederick James Bootham
The court papers are for Mr Frederick James but with the correct address.

You will have to acknowledge it in your full name. But yes you can bring the above error into the defence, in a section about lack of particulars of claim, a scarcity of detail and incorrect information showing that BW Legal are churning these out without checking or scrutinising anything about the case.

Here's a defence I drafted earlier which borrowed wording from the BMPA about a solicitor churning out claims without due diligence (the draft I saw called these 'roboclaims' which I quite liked - something you would expect the courts to take a dim view of - so I've used that):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5517061

BW Legal are certainly similar, with these bulk claims they are churning out in industrial numbers.

Xanthanan · 29 August 2016 at 1:07PM

Sorry only a quick visit today, we had to begin packing suitcases and other holiday prep.

I have managed to do the AOS and have a nice PDF to print out to prove I did it. This by my calculations gives me until 27/9/16 to submit my defence, I am back in the UK on the 16th so I have 10 days to play with it. The minor irony is that I will be doing my civic duty attending 2 weeks Jury service on the 27th, the day I have to submit a defence to another court!

I have a relatively straightforward answer for this particular question:

The original PCN also shows that the vehicle was in the car park for a total of 16 minutes, meaning 6 minutes of 'overstay' (the hourly rate of the penalty charge is therefore rather large)

Who says there was only ten minutes grace? Some car parks have 15 or 20 minutes written into the landowner contract. Doesn't seem like an overstay.

The signage states you have 10 mins to obtain a ticket, nothing about loading / unloading or a grace 'free parking' period, I maybe used the term 'grace period' frivolously what I meant was this 10 minute period where no action would be taken, no matter what the reason.

The exact wording on the terms and conditions section displayed on the signage (I have a photo) is:

A maximum period of 10 minutes is allowed to purchase a valid pay and display ticket after the vehicle has entered the car park.
Any vehicle/driver remaining on this private land 10 minutes after entry is subject to and agrees in full to the Terms & Conditions

Coupon-mad · 29 August 2016 at 2:04PM

You only get 28 days from the date of service of the court papers, not from when you acknowledged. I was thinking you would be lucky if you have a week when you return...what date was on the papers?

Xanthanan · 30 August 2016 at 1:29AM

The issue date on the claim form was 25 Aug 2016 so the service date looks like its the 30th Aug (the form says they add 5 days), If my maths is right adding 28 days gives me until the 27th September to get the defence in. In an ideal world I would want to get it in a day or two before that, I don't like leaving things to the last minute, it makes me nervous!

My urgency now (before I leave for the US) is to ask BW Legal to supply all of their reasons to make the claim and present all their evidence so that I can use that as part of my defence. I've had a look around for example 'part 18 request' texts, here's my best attempt so far, anywhere near what I need to ask? I'm not good at legal wording but am reasonably confident that I do decent English, however ANY critique is accepted by you guys, you rock

Some of this is a shameful copy of someone else's part 18, however I did write some of these so they may be terribly worded from a legal standpoint.

IN THE NORTHAMPTON
COUNTY COURT CLAIM NO: XXXXXXX
BETWEEN
Excel Parking Services Ltd Claimant

and

XXXXXXXXXXXX Defendant

PART 18 REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION

Date: 31st August 2016.

To: BW Legal (claimant's legal representitive)

Please answer the following questions:
1. Your cause of action: please make this clear. if you claim that the driver entered into a contract, then please send me a complete breakdown of all terms and conditions in said contract.
2. What are you claiming for, is it loss and damages, if so please send me a complete breakdown of all costs for each item in the claim. if not then is it tresspass?
3. In the 'notice to keeper' letters you state this is not a fine or penalty, do you claim it is an invoice pursuant to a contract (in other words an invoice which would generally be declared to the Inland Revenue). Please could you clarify.
4. Please send an unredacted copy of the contract to show standing between Excel Parking Services Ltd and the 'Landowner' at the time of the alleged offence.
5. Please supply full contact details for the above 'Landowner' for the duration of the contract.
6. Please supply photographic copies of all of the Excel signs and their location within the site.
7. Please ensure you include signage dimensions and character font sizes on all signs in the request above.
8. Please supply full details of the installation and maintenance regime for the signs at the location covering the time of the alleged offence.
8. Please supply time stamped, full size and best resolution copies of all pictures taken of the vehicle involved.
9. Please advise if, at the time of the alleged offence, there were any provisions made for commercial or private loading and unloading of large goods at all businesses with entrances adjacent to the car park covered by Excel cameras.
10. Please explain what the claim of £54 'contractual costs pursuant to PCN Terms and conditions' is for?
11. On what basis does the claimant consider the hirer liable as the use of 'Elliot v Loake' is not relevant?

XXXXXXXXXXXX (defendant)

TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU.

No's 2 and 10 appear to clash, There is quite a long list of info in the 'particulars of claim' section detailing the offence and various charges. I would upload a photo of the particulars (too long to type!) but I'm not sure how best to do it on this forum, only seems to accept URL's for images and I'm not keen putting it on an image hosting site.

So, once that's all sorted, do I update from your critique, print and post first class (getting a postage receipt) or email it directly to BW legal?

Coupon-mad · 30 August 2016 at 1:39AM

I would email that directly to BW Legal, not use the post.

And you are right with your deadline (phew!) and your plan not to take it to the wire.

The issue date on the claim form was 25 Aug 2016 so the service date looks like its the 30th Aug (the form says they add 5 days), If my maths is right adding 28 days gives me until the 27th September to get the defence in. In an ideal world I would want to get it in a day or two before that, I don't like leaving things to the last minute, it makes me nervous!

Enjoy your holiday!!

Xanthanan · 30 August 2016 at 11:43AM

Gosh that was a fast reply, thank you again! I've dug out a general enquiries email address for BW Legal and will send it shortly.

While preparing the email I suddenly wondered if it was worth doing a CC to BBC Watchdog on that email but then worried that
a) It would be out of context (for Watchdog) as I have not contacted then with any prior details
b) Would it 'inflame' the situation and make BW Legal more likely to fight to the death
c) Copying a third party into a legal request would flout the legal process in some way

Opinions anyone?

Coupon-mad · 30 August 2016 at 1:04PM

I would not 'copy in' Watchdog but I do feel that people should be raising this to their attention, because there must be an Autumn schedule next month with a new series. You can go on the BBC website and put in your story & details.

The others who I think should be telling Watchdog are those who have discovered an unknown CCJ against them, due to a random PPC spending just £25 to sneakily serve court papers to an old address - and thereby 'clamp' a person's finances. That is worse than the old clamping - the injured party has to spend £255 to even beg the court for a chance to overturn it and may not even be the liable person at all if they were only the keeper and not the driver (and the PPC did not use the POFA, as Excel & VCS don't, to name just two).

beamerguy · 30 August 2016 at 1:12PM

Xanthanan wrote: »

Gosh that was a fast reply, thank you again! I've dug out a general enquiries email address for BW Legal and will send it shortly.

While preparing the email I suddenly wondered if it was worth doing a CC to BBC Watchdog on that email but then worried that
a) It would be out of context (for Watchdog) as I have not contacted then with any prior details
b) Would it 'inflame' the situation and make BW Legal more likely to fight to the death
c) Copying a third party into a legal request would flout the legal process in some way

Opinions anyone?

All for contacting watchdog, don't know when they are back on TV.

I would suggest you give them an overview what happened and thereafter the disgusting letters sent by BWLegal.
Then copy in the SRA

I suspect that Watchdog have many such complaints and this issue will again be a main part of their program, just like they did with the BPA and DVLA ..... both of those were made to look idiots. Maybe Watchdog could invite BWLegal and the SRA to explain their actions

BWLegal are clearly on a fight to the death with everyone but the way they are going, it will be their death we will celebrate

Redx · 30 August 2016 at 2:40PM

Xanthanan wrote: »

S
I have a relatively straightforward answer for this particular question:

The signage states you have 10 mins to obtain a ticket, nothing about loading / unloading or a grace 'free parking' period, I maybe used the term 'grace period' frivolously what I meant was this 10 minute period where no action would be taken, no matter what the reason.

The exact wording on the terms and conditions section displayed on the signage (I have a photo) is:

one point you are forgetting is that no matter what the signage says , they have signed up to a CoP , and those CoP`s state that a customer should be given adequate time to leave

so a BPA member may have say up to 10 minutes to park up , read the signs , get a ticket , comply

then they have OVER 10 minutes to leave (so 11 minutes or more)

this equates to over 21 minutes in total

the IPC CoP talks about adequate time to depart too

so if we say 10 minutes to park and buy a ticket , plus say 11 minutes to depart, the 16 minutes "overstay" is covered

Excel Parking, BW Legal and now what looks like court papers

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