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    • newbieboy
    • By newbieboy 23rd Dec 13, 10:53 AM
    • 111 Posts
    • 52 Thanks
    newbieboy
    I think CRA's are a good idea and are well executed.

    I have had the odd issue on mine that has been resolved very quickly by the CRA's and hasn't negatively affected me.

    WRT to [car insurers] "They should never have been permitted in the first place. I never authorised them. I remember refusing one insurer that notified me that they would do a search and told them to stick it. Four other companies did the searches without disclosing the fact"

    Picking a common insurance site; Moneysupermarket.com and looking at the T&C's one of the first ones is "The information you provide may be used to carry out certain credit checks through licensed credit-referencing agencies. This is used as part of the underwriting process for some of the insurance providers and a record of this search will be made although this will not adversely affect your credit profile"

    I think the key issue is that you haven't read the Terms and Conditions NOT that it doesn't exist. If you had (like you agree to when you take out a quote) you would have known this happens. Personally i though it was common sense they would.

    The Beneficiary Search you are so distressed about is CAPITA searching for the beneficiary of a Will. If someone had died and you were beneficiary then that would have been why. If you weren't then it is most likely CAPITA searching for them, as you didn't hear anything else odds are they realised it wasn't you. Personally I find this reassuring that they DO do everything they can to search for people in the event of a death. It makes no difference to me and it won't appear when searched by others.

    Th method of obtaining a credit report is fairly well hardened, you need Name, Address, D.O.B and normally a credit/debit card to be able to obtain the information. Therefore if you have been a victim, odds are YOU have made this information visible to them to enable them to do it. That is why normally it is family that commit these offences as they know this information easily. Deciding that the system is flawed because you have been negatively affected is wrong, especially considering the millions of people who have used and not been affected. Your argument is similar to me saying that the driving license isn't sufficiently difficult to obtain legally or there would be less accidents.

    No-one likes being rated, least of all financially but clearly your experience of fraud has left a huge chip on your shoulder and you feel that the CRA's are to blame and not the person(s) who did it.
  • VictimOfImpersonation
    newbieboy, you make a lot of assumptions.

    I haven't authorised Capita to search my CRA records for any purpose, ergo they are unlawfully accessing my personal data. If HMRC wish to access my personal data there is nothing I can do about it, but Capita are not the UK government and should be made to remember it by the Information Commissioner.

    I see you are a T&Cs waving fanatic. Well before you wave them, do make sure they are relevant. Did I say I used a price comparison website? Even if I did, where was the upfront warning (not the buried smallprint)?

    Just what public interest does it serve for X million private motorists to have their credit reports defiled by multiple entries everytime they get a quote at a comparison website (if that's what happened and I don't think it did because as I said, one particular large insurer was told by phone they could not proceed further with the quote)? And what public interest is served by Equifax alerting me 8 months later that those searches are deleted and then 10 months later they are printed on my full credit report?

    I told you how CallCredit experienced a security hole (in 2009/2010). They issued an online full credit report to organised criminals who paid £12 for it using a Prepaid Mastercard in my name which had been obtained with no proper security checks. CallCredit then relied upon the Prepaid Mastercard issuer's non-existent security as their own.

    You clearly are a fan of CRAs - do you work in financial services or are you just asserting stuff on the back of a fluffy understanding of what goes on?
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 23rd Dec 13, 12:23 PM
    • 65,905 Posts
    • 58,023 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    I did the straw poll at post #13. The conclusion was that there were plenty of naysayers who just visit the thread to ridicule the premise and the OP without offering any evidence to back up their assertions.
    Originally posted by VictimOfImpersonation
    Likewise, I refer you to your opening line of post #6.

    Are you a PR mouthpiece for a discredited industry?
    Kettle black springs to mind.
    ““there really is no such thing as ‘the future’, singular. There are only multiple, unforeseeable futures, which will never lose their capacity to take us by surprise.””
    ― Niall Ferguson
    • rizla king
    • By rizla king 23rd Dec 13, 12:49 PM
    • 2,843 Posts
    • 1,903 Thanks
    rizla king
    Worth watching

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/features/credit-reference-agency
    • Buzby
    • By Buzby 23rd Dec 13, 2:36 PM
    • 8,201 Posts
    • 3,011 Thanks
    Buzby
    Funnily enough, I don't see it as my job to assist CRA's hold my data - indeed I do what I can to ensure no matching and am delighted to see very little of my dealings (good or bad) reported.

    Ways to achieve this include, but are not limited to, providing a middle initial with 26 to choose from, this is useful in knowing who is passing on your details to third parties. Reverse your DoB (the US format) or just work your way through a bunch of years with random dates. Your excuse? You are protecting your personal data from misuse by third parties.

    I'm old enough to recall 'Over 21' was simply a box you ticked, now even if you want a magazine subscription a DoB is asked for. It's none of their business, unless they plan to sell on my details and if so, their first casualty is accuracy.

    It gives me a warm glow.
  • innovate
    Excellent summary by newbieboy.

    Only thing I would add is that all the CRAs should provide individuals with free access to their key data, like Noddle does.
  • VictimOfImpersonation
    I did the straw poll at post #13. The conclusion was that there were plenty of naysayers who just visit the thread to ridicule the premise and the OP without offering any evidence to back up their assertions.
    by me
    Likewise, I refer you to your opening line of post #6.
    Are you a PR mouthpiece for a discredited industry?
    by me
    Kettle black springs to mind.
    by Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir, it seems that rather than deal with the thread topic you simply cannot resist feigning offence and continuing to knock the OP. You have just exaggerated again, and now mixed up words like 'assertion' with 'question'.

    I asked you a question. I have no idea of your motives but I have an idea what questions to ask to find out, and I surely do not have to provide evidence in justification of an obvious question on that

    Do you see yourself as a PR mouthpiece for a discredited industry?

    Excellent summary by newbieboy.
    Originally posted by innovate
    What's excellent about it?
    Last edited by VictimOfImpersonation; 23-12-2013 at 5:13 PM.
  • Dr_Cuckoo3
    What's excellent about it?
    Originally posted by VictimOfImpersonation
    I suspect this is because the post is well written and articulate and therefore creates the impression that the poster knows what he is talking about (regardless of whether it is accurate) and this tends to impress lay people.

    When reading this part of the forum you will find many lay people advising on the workings of the credit reference agencies.

    In your first post on this thread you mention
    recording of irrelevant and secret (coded) data.
    Originally posted by VictimOfImpersonation
    why don't you elaborate on this and state whether you consider this to be compliant with regulations etc and whether the ICO is aware and approves of this ?
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
  • innovate
    I suspect this is because the post is well written and articulate and therefore creates the impression that the poster knows what he is talking about (regardless of whether it is accurate) "......... ?
    Originally posted by Dr_Cuckoo3
    Are you suggesting newbieboy has posted inaccurate information? If so, could you detail what is inaccurate?
  • innovate

    What's excellent about it?
    Originally posted by VictimOfImpersonation
    Just about all of it. But you are unlikely to see it that way since all you are after is people who agree with your views.
  • Dr_Cuckoo3
    Are you suggesting newbieboy has posted inaccurate information? If so, could you detail what is inaccurate?
    Originally posted by innovate
    No - I am suggesting that you favour well written posts regardless of accuracy and don't have the knowledge (from your experience etc) to know whether the CRA's would pass a scrutiny test

    I know which subjects you are knowledgeable on and which your are not .

    The poster you are impressed by states
    I think CRA's are a good idea and are well executed.
    Originally posted by newbieboy
    and gives some reasons , to which you respond

    Excellent summary by newbieboy.
    Originally posted by innovate

    Now , this thread is canvassing for valid criticism of CRA's of which the respondents appear to have found none.

    Having checked the CRA's practice against regulations I have found at least one area of non compliance and a few other "valid" criticisms.

    For the record I don't necessarily agree with the OP's views (as expressed by him in this thread) , Tin foil hats spring to mind (though no offence to OP intended).
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  • VictimOfImpersonation
    Well newbieboy's post may have been well written in the same vein that spin doctors are usually in command of the English they use, but of course informed readers can see through posts like that and declare them a diversion for truth-seekers and generally of no essential substance.

    I am not "after" anyone, innovate, other than the CRAs and the wholly discredited financial services industry which they serve.

    ...recording of irrelevant and secret (coded) data.
    by me
    why don't you elaborate on this and state whether you consider this to be compliant with regulations etc and whether the ICO is aware and approves of this ?
    by Dr_Cuckoo_3
    I have given examples of motor insurers who are using CRAs as we know not what exactly in the context of motor insurance quotations. I also have a number of entries on my file which fail to identify the company involved and which I have had to decipher myself only to find for example that a "New Credit Agreement notification" with a code instead of a lender name turns out to have been put there by a purchaser of old credit card books which included my details from an old credit card account that had been closed years previously. That is why I dare to use the term irrelevant. Generally this information and the description the CRA uses for the type of entry can only be decrypted by an insider. That's why I dare to use the term "secret". I think we have seen enough of the types of search and entry and alert services and online direct feeds to financial services clients to see that CRAs are being used in a myriad of commercially secret ways to transact our data with financial services companies.

    Because I have a compliance background, I would no doubt have a field day if I was given open access even just to everything they ever transacted and stored in my name, and I am a simple case with no credit defaults ever, but a lifetime of financial services transactions which are very untidily recorded by the spectrum of bad to bloody awful providers that is all we've got left now in the financial services industry. I can't recommend a single financial services provider I use. How sad is that?

    I am not really into discussing whether the industry is compliant with regulations because any business that gets analysed in that fashion has self-evidently failed the customer base once it starts trying to use the regulations as a defence.

    On the subject though of regulators, the ICO clearly has no teeth in the same way that OFT used to have no teeth. OFT has at least grown some in the last couple of years but only takes very selective bites out of politically sensitive targets. I guess we simply don't have the resources to chase down all the bad guys, and the biggest bad guys just negotiate their own penalty fines. It would be good if ICO did grab a few biggies by the short and curlies even if the penalty fines have to be negotiated, but we haven't seen it yet have we?

    Tin foil hats, Dr_Cuckoo_3? By which you mean what if it is not a veiled insult however softly placed!? You have no reason to accuse me of paranoia. I am one of the few posters offering evidence to back my assertions. If you were really well-meaning you should instead be highlighting the usual foil tactics used to distract from uncomfortable truths. There's plenty of that in the thread to comment upon, so why label me as paranoid when there is dishonest spin and bluster to be highlighted?
    Last edited by VictimOfImpersonation; 23-12-2013 at 7:02 PM.
  • innovate

    I know which subjects you are knowledgeable on and which your are not .

    ).
    by Dr_Cuckoo3
    Now that is very interesting. You obviously have super-natural powers since we have never met, and I have never shared with you (or anyone else on MSE) what my areas of expertise are.
  • Dr_Cuckoo3
    recording of irrelevant and secret (coded) data.
    Originally posted by VictimOfImpersonation
    The secret coded data I was seeking elaboration on was - "Delphi and CII" to be honest

    I don't think it would pass a scrutiny test , but most people (eg innovate) don't know what it is.

    ICO are in bed with CRA's.

    I should point out that I have not been disadvantaged by any of the above
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  • Dr_Cuckoo3
    Now that is very interesting. You obviously have super-natural powers since we have never met, and I have never shared with you (or anyone else on MSE) what my areas of expertise are.
    Originally posted by innovate
    Your area of expertise is savings and matters of appeal to those with significant savings and you have recently discovered that current accounts pay more than savings accounts (you are not a "stoozer" as far as I am aware)
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    • A Flock Of Sheep
    • By A Flock Of Sheep 23rd Dec 13, 7:20 PM
    • 5,112 Posts
    • 6,778 Thanks
    A Flock Of Sheep
    Funnily enough, I don't see it as my job to assist CRA's hold my data - indeed I do what I can to ensure no matching and am delighted to see very little of my dealings (good or bad) reported.

    Ways to achieve this include, but are not limited to, providing a middle initial with 26 to choose from, this is useful in knowing who is passing on your details to third parties. Reverse your DoB (the US format) or just work your way through a bunch of years with random dates. Your excuse? You are protecting your personal data from misuse by third parties.

    I'm old enough to recall 'Over 21' was simply a box you ticked, now even if you want a magazine subscription a DoB is asked for. It's none of their business, unless they plan to sell on my details and if so, their first casualty is accuracy.

    It gives me a warm glow.
    Originally posted by Buzby
    I echo this. I am sick and tired of companies wanting my private data. For a number of years now I use a false name on my Electoral Form and I never give my date of birth out unless it is totally necessary.

    Th gas company wanted my DOB. Why does it matter how old I am to have gas? I always use the oldest year possible on any pull down menus.

    So as far as I know the CRAs have a load of !!!!!!!! data sent from me.
    • A Flock Of Sheep
    • By A Flock Of Sheep 23rd Dec 13, 7:23 PM
    • 5,112 Posts
    • 6,778 Thanks
    A Flock Of Sheep
    current accounts pay more than savings accounts
    Originally posted by Dr_Cuckoo3
    And that is another thing that needs to be looked into. Current accounts becoming the new savings accounts through marketing ploys of "high interest" and "cashback" sweeteners.

    If a bank can offer 3% on a current account it sure as hell should be doing that for a normal instant access savings account.

    And I would go to the Santander 3% account in a heartbeat but I know it reports to the CRA's and that goes totally against my current principles on the matter. A savings account on the other hand would not report.

    I may be paranoid but it seems a funny coincidence savers are being sucked into "credit reportable" accounts that feed the CRA's with data.
    Last edited by A Flock Of Sheep; 23-12-2013 at 7:41 PM.
  • Dr_Cuckoo3
    http://www.fsa.gov.uk/static/pubs/other/scottish-century.pdf




    In addition, try to keep things relevant , that is what I mean by "tin foil hat" - the person in the FSA link appears similar to the OP

    If you have a criticism- pick something easy to prove to start with
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    • A Flock Of Sheep
    • By A Flock Of Sheep 23rd Dec 13, 7:28 PM
    • 5,112 Posts
    • 6,778 Thanks
    A Flock Of Sheep
    Back in 2004 I was victim of CRA nonsense through a firm quite incorrectly listing that I had defaulted. It was an immense struggle getting the data corrected. The CRA always siding with the company who - was a communications firm - who couldn't or wouldn't communicate with me or the CRA. The department that fed the CRA with the bull didn't speak to the public and ignored all my letters. When I eventually got the default removed the company kept putting it back every month and each month I had to get it removed. In doing this I was paying the CRA's a lot of money to subscribe to their monitoring services.

    They are lousy good for nothing cash cows.

    Very frustrating all that was and since then I try to have as little to do with CRA's as possible. I have no accounts that report to them.
    • A Flock Of Sheep
    • By A Flock Of Sheep 23rd Dec 13, 7:37 PM
    • 5,112 Posts
    • 6,778 Thanks
    A Flock Of Sheep
    Your area of expertise is savings
    Originally posted by Dr_Cuckoo3
    I wouldn't say "expertise". More area of interest.
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