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  • FIRST POST
    Former MSE Penelope
    'Do you support Wednesday's strike?' poll
    • #1
    • 28th Nov 11, 12:11 PM
    'Do you support Wednesday's strike?' poll 28th Nov 11 at 12:11 PM
    Poll started 22 November 2011, click here to vote

    Do you support Wednesday's strike?

    On Wednesday, 23 public sector unions will strike over changes to their pensions. This is likely to impact many areas including schools, some NHS operations and passport checks (more info in BBC Q&A).

    Which of these is closest to your view (if you have more than one job/contract choose the one you spend most time on)

    I work in the public sector

    A. I fully support the strike
    B. I support it as it's democratic - but I would've voted / did vote against it
    C. I'm against the strike
    D. I don't know enough about it to decide

    I work in the private or charity sector

    A. I fully support the strike
    B. I support it as it's democratic - but I would've voted / did vote against it
    C. I'm against the strike
    D. I don't know enough about it to decide

    I don't work / am unemployed/ am retired

    A. I fully support the strike
    B. I support it as it's democratic - but would've voted against it myself
    C. I'm against the strike
    D. I don't know enough about it to decide



    Click reply to discuss
    Last edited by Former MSE Penelope; 28-11-2011 at 12:50 PM.
Page 2
    • landsker
    • By landsker 28th Nov 11, 5:37 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 137 Thanks
    landsker
    This should clarify the pension argument!

    http://!!!!!!!.com/cgsp8tq

    • landsker
    • By landsker 28th Nov 11, 5:39 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 137 Thanks
    landsker
    http://www.devilskitchen.me.uk/2011/11/of-pension-pots-and-!!!!-takers.html

    This should clarify things a bit!

    http://!!!!!!!.com/cgsp8tq

    Insert pi$$ in link 1

    Insert uniform resource locator in link 2
    Last edited by landsker; 28-11-2011 at 5:44 PM.

    • landsker
    • By landsker 28th Nov 11, 5:40 PM
    • 65 Posts
    • 137 Thanks
    landsker
    Why can't I post a !!!!!!! link?

    • Flyhigh
    • By Flyhigh 28th Nov 11, 6:07 PM
    • 119 Posts
    • 2,737 Thanks
    Flyhigh
    Well - I'm a low end civil servant & from what I've read from my trade union newsletters (I'll believe them ahead of what politicians or other media say)...

    - Government say public sector pensions are unsustainable - apparently the union has presented them with evidence that it is in fact sustainable.

    - The extra money that the government are expecting me to pay isn't even going into the pension fund at all.

    I'll have to pay an extra 60 PER MONTH (remember - LOW END civil servant). I'm not in any way an extravaggant person but I can't remember the last time I had 20 in my account at the end of the month & don't know how I'll be able to afford the extra.

    Oh yes - I'm very much in favour of the strike!
    Thanks to all for posting
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 28th Nov 11, 6:08 PM
    • 10,938 Posts
    • 9,860 Thanks
    C_Mababejive
    None of the options apply to me.

    I work in the private sector and am doing fine.

    I only care about myself so i dont care who strikes or who doesnt.
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
    • Jennifer_Jane
    • By Jennifer_Jane 28th Nov 11, 6:24 PM
    • 3,157 Posts
    • 4,365 Thanks
    Jennifer_Jane
    Well - I'm a low end civil servant & from what I've read from my trade union newsletters (I'll believe them ahead of what politicians or other media say)...

    - Government say public sector pensions are unsustainable - apparently the union has presented them with evidence that it is in fact sustainable.

    - The extra money that the government are expecting me to pay isn't even going into the pension fund at all.

    I'll have to pay an extra 60 PER MONTH (remember - LOW END civil servant). I'm not in any way an extravaggant person but I can't remember the last time I had 20 in my account at the end of the month & don't know how I'll be able to afford the extra.

    Oh yes - I'm very much in favour of the strike!
    Originally posted by Flyhigh
    How much do you earn, Flyhigh? And, how old are you? And if you were in the private sector, earning what you are earning, how much would you be able to set aside for your Company pension?
    Last edited by Jennifer_Jane; 28-11-2011 at 6:27 PM.
    • Flyhigh
    • By Flyhigh 28th Nov 11, 6:48 PM
    • 119 Posts
    • 2,737 Thanks
    Flyhigh
    How much do you earn, Flyhigh? And, how old are you? And if you were in the private sector, earning what you are earning, how much would you be able to set aside for your Company pension?
    Originally posted by Jennifer_Jane
    Other than what I earn (not discussing here!) & my age (reluctantly divulging...37) I can't answer any of your questions... Sorry
    Thanks to all for posting
  • pandora_ann
    I'm a member of one of the striking unions but, as my employee pension is private and not public, my pension is not affected so I am not able to strike. However, I'm fully behind those who are taking part in the strike.

    Why are so many people so keen to race to the bottom; "I've got it bad therefore so should you"? Instead of telling people to live in the real world (really, they're not in a bubble!) why not question why private sector pensions are so dreadful? Does it not make more sense to focus on the financial institutions and ask them about the enormous fees they charge on private pension funds? I prefer to focus on making my life (and pension) better, rather than insisting that others lower their expectations or quality of life.
  • Allie Ballie Bee
    Just to be clear - I am a public sector worker AND I pay for my pension AND I pay taxes too!!!! Jeez!

    I am so fed up hearing the private sector having a go at the public sector. This is exactly what the Tories want to happen. Their ideology does not support a strong public sector so they deliberately turn the private sector against us. Don't be fooled.

    Surely if I feel secure in my public sector job and secure in my future I will spend my money in the private sector. Also if the private sector are not happy with their pensions then do something about it. Make CHOICES!!!
    PAD-ing Since 7/1/11 2012 - 2329.10 2011 - 4760.88
    NSD's April 10/10 Mar 11/12 Feb 11/12 Jan 8/8
    • cattie1
    • By cattie1 28th Nov 11, 9:18 PM
    • 2,024 Posts
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    cattie1
    Whilst those in the private sector are in a hurry to condemn strikers, maybe if they consider those best suited/qualified to teach their children/look after them when they are sick etc. etc. they might take a different view - then again, maybe not.

    bexster
    Originally posted by bexster1975
    I work in the private sector for a low wage, however due to the strike I will have to either take the day off work losing 40 or put my children in(a private sector) nursery for the day costing me 60 thanks to the people I trusted to teach and care for my children
    .
    So I don't agree with it, also in my simplistic view, I pay taxes as well as public sector people but the difference being, part of my tax pays towards their pensions, I do not get the same benefit from their taxes, If I want a pension I have to pay for it all myself.

    I have also been told I have to take on my responsibilty, and work more hours for less pay, but I wasn't entitled to strike (not that it would of helped) I was just grateful to still be lucky enough to have a job during these times.
    official dfw nerd club member no 214
    Proud to be dealing with my debts!
    Why is a person that handles your money called a broker?!:confused:
  • Keith J
    The poll seems to highlight the reality of opinion; the majority of support is from people in the puplic sector employ. The majority of 'opposition' is from private sector employed people.
    Me I am private sector. My best friend since school is puplic sector. Quess what; when we compared pensions packs his is worth over 4 times mine AND I pay more every month in contibutions.
    Even my friend says it is scewed nowardays. When he started the salary was lower than the private sector equivalent - but the added benefits were much greater. Now he gets paid same rate as private sector but still has the added benefits.
    No fair.
    If public sector wants the extra pension benefits (which i don't disagree with for one moment) it should pay extra for them - I would have to pay extra, why not public sector people?
    • Jennifer_Jane
    • By Jennifer_Jane 28th Nov 11, 10:53 PM
    • 3,157 Posts
    • 4,365 Thanks
    Jennifer_Jane
    I'm a member of one of the striking unions but, as my employee pension is private and not public, my pension is not affected so I am not able to strike. However, I'm fully behind those who are taking part in the strike.

    Why are so many people so keen to race to the bottom; "I've got it bad therefore so should you"? Instead of telling people to live in the real world (really, they're not in a bubble!) why not question why private sector pensions are so dreadful? Does it not make more sense to focus on the financial institutions and ask them about the enormous fees they charge on private pension funds? I prefer to focus on making my life (and pension) better, rather than insisting that others lower their expectations or quality of life.
    Originally posted by pandora_ann
    The phrase 'Race to the bottom' is a clever, trite, memorable, little line which is constantly being used by the Labour party, especially in Parliament and in interviews.

    The reason why private sector pensions are so dreadful, is that the private sector realised quite long ago that people were living longer and that pensions were unaffordable. I think it was in 1996 or so that my company changed from defined benefit to defined contribution. There wasn't a choice.

    The point is that the public sector pensions just simply too generous, not just now that, as Liam Byrne said 'There is no money left', but anyway.

    The truth is that Labour should have realised this during their government, and simply didn't or refused to. In addition, in case no-one has noticed, Europe is in turmoil, and the UK is probably about to go into another recession.

    If the public sector are interested in 'fairness' (which they don't seem to be), then they should keep contributing what they currently do, and that money should be used to buy an annuity, in the same way that the private sector does.

    No-one can simply 'magic up' equality in private sector pensions to match public sector ones - just not possible. Unless, of course, you would like the cost of your food, clothes, Tvs and so on to increase to make up the difference. Would that suit you?
    • bexster1975
    • By bexster1975 29th Nov 11, 6:56 AM
    • 1,461 Posts
    • 6,968 Thanks
    bexster1975
    sorry cattie1 but have no idea why you have quoted that part of my post.

    What I am saying is if you want people who are not able to obtain jobs in the private sector to be teaching your kids and looking after you when you are sick, this is the way to do it.

    If you wanted the right to strike, maybe you should have taken work in the public sector. Many professions in the public sector are looked upon with disdain by the public at large. It is fascinating to see how important these professionals are (if only as babysitters) for people when they might lose a days pay.

    By the way, I work in the private sector - so no personal agenda.
  • suzydiamond
    its all a myth
    pensions were adjusted in 2007 to make sure there was sufficient funding and our contributions went up significantly. Now we're being asked to pay an additional 3% on top of THAT increase (taking our contribution to around 10%) - that might be ok to ensure we get what we expect - but at the same time we are going to get LESS and on top of that we have to work longer to get it. If we are really expected to swallow this one, perhaps we should start with MPs leading by example!!!
    • cattie1
    • By cattie1 29th Nov 11, 6:56 PM
    • 2,024 Posts
    • 2,551 Thanks
    cattie1
    /
    sorry cattie1 but have no idea why you have quoted that part of my post..
    Originally posted by bexster1975


    It was quoted because you said maybe if they consider those best suited/qualified to teach their children/look after them when they are sick etc. etc. they might take a different view

    What I am saying is if you want people who are not able to obtain jobs in the private sector to be teaching your kids and looking after you when you are sick, this is the way to do it...
    Originally posted by bexster1975


    You have basically just insulted the majority of public sector who have had to work hard to get qualified for their positions.
    By striking they are encouraging more money into the private sector as many of us will be using and paying for childcare while we work or the lucky ones of us will be spending the day out with our children.


    If you wanted the right to strike, maybe you should have taken work in the public sector....
    Originally posted by bexster1975


    I never said I wanted the right to strike, I merely stated the fact that we aren't given that opportunity, mainly because it achieves nothing, just wastes a day, and wastes money. I have many friends in the public sector, they aren't particulary bothered about the strike, just happy they get an extra day off work!





    It is fascinating to see how important these professionals are (if only as babysitters) for people when they might lose a days pay..
    Originally posted by bexster1975


    haha yes that's EXACTLY why I send my children to school and EXACTLY the point I was making. well done..........
    Last edited by cattie1; 29-11-2011 at 9:16 PM.
    official dfw nerd club member no 214
    Proud to be dealing with my debts!
    Why is a person that handles your money called a broker?!:confused:
    • bexster1975
    • By bexster1975 29th Nov 11, 7:24 PM
    • 1,461 Posts
    • 6,968 Thanks
    bexster1975
    Oh dear cattie! Now I can see why you only earn 40 a day!
    • cattie1
    • By cattie1 29th Nov 11, 8:52 PM
    • 2,024 Posts
    • 2,551 Thanks
    cattie1
    Oh dear cattie! Now I can see why you only earn 40 a day!
    Originally posted by bexster1975

    Excellent use of argument.......rather than resorting to petty b*tchiness
    official dfw nerd club member no 214
    Proud to be dealing with my debts!
    Why is a person that handles your money called a broker?!:confused:
    • Lifes Grand Plan
    • By Lifes Grand Plan 29th Nov 11, 8:57 PM
    • 1,045 Posts
    • 992 Thanks
    Lifes Grand Plan
    You have basically just insulted the majority of public sector who have had to work hard to get qualified for their positions.
    Originally posted by cattie1
    I think you'll find what she actually meant (and said) was that if public sector pensions get obliterated and the pay and other benefits are worse, then everyone will sod off to the private sector... the only people then left to teach and fill other public sector positions will be those who aren't good enough to get a job in the private sector.

    Hope that helps.
    A big believer in karma, you get what you give

    If you find my posts useful, "pay it forward" and help someone else out, that's how places like MSE can be so successful.
    • cattie1
    • By cattie1 29th Nov 11, 9:07 PM
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    • 2,551 Thanks
    cattie1
    I think you'll find what she actually meant (and said) was that if public sector pensions get obliterated and the pay and other benefits are worse, then everyone will sod off to the private sector... the only people then left to teach and fill other public sector positions will be those who aren't good enough to get a job in the private sector.

    Hope that helps.
    Originally posted by Lifes Grand Plan

    I clearly misunderstood the meaning,and apologise as I thought she was saying only people who aren't qualified for anything and aren't very intelligent will be employed by public sector. At least you chose to explain politely, thank-you.

    However I think you will find that the majority of private sector pensions and benefits (with the odd exception) are much worse than public even after the cuts, and part of the taxes we pay still go towards public sector benefits.
    Last edited by cattie1; 29-11-2011 at 9:12 PM.
    official dfw nerd club member no 214
    Proud to be dealing with my debts!
    Why is a person that handles your money called a broker?!:confused:
  • kezzy36
    I was brought up in a household/area of the country unused to strikes and the reasoning behind them and I have never voted to strike before. But the changes proposed to our pensions - over and above the increases in contributions that already took place in 2007 - go well beyond what could be called a reasonable adjustment in these troubled times. A triple whammy - Another increase in contributions in order to get a smaller pension and not until 68.
    In reality this means me retiring at the same age - but losing 5300 a year OR Working until I'm 68 - which brings a few other issues, how great are these secondary schools of the future going to be with (nearly) 70 year olds disciplining, teaching and relating to teenagers? Really? And primary schools? How many people at 68 have the energy to cope with 30 foundation stage children all day every day? Maybe we'll have to reintroduce 'naptimes' for both pupils and staff?!
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