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  • Homer_J
    • #2
    • 18th Aug 10, 9:48 PM
    Cyprus Airways
    • #2
    • 18th Aug 10, 9:48 PM
    Hi Lionel,

    I have been helping my 77 year old Mother get her money back from Cyprus Airways after she was abandoned in Cyprus for 10 days and incurred costs of nearly 1000. Today she received the letter you speak of by Special Delivery.

    In short, the letter states that Cyprus Airways are not to blame for the incident and therefore do not have to pay "compensation" (despite several letters, emails and 2 claim forms stating that she is seeking out of pocket expenses, not compensation!!) and goes on to say that, as a gesture of goodwill, they have enclosed 150 Euros worth of vouchers to be used against her next flight!

    Mum then got back to Consumer Direct, who advised her to contact the Air Transport Users Council; she spoke to a foreign lady who said that Cyprus Airways were correct and didn't have to pay, so cut your losses and accept the vouchers!!!

    I am going to phone ATUC again tomorrow and ask them to explain the poor advice they have given to my Mum, then it's off to small claims court as we will have exhausted all other avenues.

    I would be very interested to find out what your letter says when it arrives; I suggest we keep in touch to take this further, together with anyone else that is fighting Cyprus Airways!
    Last edited by Homer_J; 18-08-2010 at 10:12 PM.
  • lionel leventhal
    • #3
    • 20th Aug 10, 8:13 AM
    cyprus airways
    • #3
    • 20th Aug 10, 8:13 AM
    Good morning Homer_J
    I have not yet received the rejection of the claim for reimbursement of expenses from Cyprus Airways. My claim is a multiple of that for your Mother for I, also a senior citizen, had taken the whole family away as a treat and there we 7 of us.
    The advice from AUTC is strange. See EC261/2004. See the Guidance for Tour Operators issued by the Dept for Business Innovation and Skills issued in June. Possibily the information given by abta on their website (I am not allowed to post the link)
    See also the EC announcement about KLM. Do you/anybody out there know from which EC department that came, and how to reach them? How to lodge a complain with the EC?
    Is there another website(obvoiusly not as nice and friendly) for volcano claims?
    Can one claim punitive damages in the small claims court?
    Lionel
  • Homer_J
    • #4
    • 21st Aug 10, 8:02 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Aug 10, 8:02 PM
    It would seem that the lady at ATC was advising my Mum that she is not entitled to compensation, which of course she isn't; unfortunately, Mum didn't clarify that she is claiming for out of pocket expenses rather than compensation during the phone call, and I haven't been able to get through as they're permanently engaged.

    The European small claims procedure looks fairly straightforward; unfortunately Lionel, it may not be any good to you due to the size of your claim; the maximum is EUR 2000 - I would imagine that you are out of pocket by substantially more than that!

    Knowing the Cypriot mentality, I really can't see CA paying out voluntarily and the powers that be seem to be very slow in applying any pressure - you might have to engage a lawyer to get anywhere!
  • lionel leventhal
    • #5
    • 22nd Aug 10, 8:10 AM
    Cyprus Airways
    • #5
    • 22nd Aug 10, 8:10 AM
    Good morning

    I did not know there was a European small claims system, but you are right and my claim is much larger than yours and the limit for European claims.

    In fact, I have not received Cyprus Airways "reject" letter yet, but am preparing for the UK small claims system. I have used the small claims court once before and found it "user friendly". I think the claim is too small, all things considered, to use a lawyer for. From what you say, then there might be a problem getting the payment but I guess I will have to cross that bridge if I get to it.

    How about claiming from the tour operator?
    • eslick
    • By eslick 22nd Aug 10, 9:21 AM
    • 2,038 Posts
    • 1,321 Thanks
    eslick
    • #6
    • 22nd Aug 10, 9:21 AM
    • #6
    • 22nd Aug 10, 9:21 AM
    check if they have a UK base you can serve papers there via the UK small claims cout.

    found this

    Cyprus Airways
    5 Brent Cross Gdns
    London
    NW4 3RJ
    Last edited by eslick; 22-08-2010 at 9:26 AM.
  • Homer_J
    • #7
    • 22nd Aug 10, 11:10 PM
    • #7
    • 22nd Aug 10, 11:10 PM
    How about claiming from the tour operator?
    Originally posted by lionel leventhal
    I've looked into that, but Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 is quite specific and states that the 'operating air carrier' is responsible. In cases where the likes of Thomson have paid out, it was because they were both the tour operator and the air carrier.

    Hi eslick,

    Thanks for your post. I've spoken to Customer Services at Brent Cross several times, but hadn't thought of taking them to UK Small Claims instead of Head Office in Cyprus; does anybody know if this would work, or would it be rejected in favour of using the European courts? I would imagine that you have to sue a company in their country of registration, but I'm just guessing.
  • lionel leventhal
    • #8
    • 23rd Aug 10, 7:21 AM
    cyprus airways
    • #8
    • 23rd Aug 10, 7:21 AM
    Cyprus airways at the Brent Cross address for their offices are a British registered firm. They have an entry at Companies House, and their accounts are avaiable (all 97 pages of them). So I believe that you can issue proceedings in the UK.
  • Homer_J
    • #9
    • 24th Aug 10, 11:50 AM
    • #9
    • 24th Aug 10, 11:50 AM
    I've finally managed to contact a different person at the Air Transport Users Council, who have confirmed that under Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 my Mum is entitled to refund of her expenses (we knew that anyway, but it's good to have confirmation from an authority!). Unfortunately, they cannot deal with Cyprus Airways, stating that we must approach their own Civil Aviation Authority for further assitance.

    We now have to decide whether to bother, or just go striaght to small claims; I think it's worth another call to Consumer Direct for advice.

    For anyone in a similar position, contact details for Cyprus Dept of Civil Aviation are as follows:

    Dept of Civil Aviation
    27 Pindarou Street
    Alpha Business Centre
    CY1429
    Nicosia
    Cyprus

    Email: director@dca.mcw.gov.cy

    Fax: 00357 227 66552

    Good luck - don't let the b******s grind you down!!
    • eslick
    • By eslick 24th Aug 10, 12:20 PM
    • 2,038 Posts
    • 1,321 Thanks
    eslick
    Homer, best to go to their local enforcement body even if you do go to court. the more complaints the more chance of them doing something about it.
  • lionel leventhal
    Cyprus Airways
    Hi Homer_J

    Recently I have written twice to the Cypriot minister with responsibilty for airlines etc. I got her name from the attendees of an EC commission meeting on the volcanic ash cloud in Brussels. She is Ms Erato Kozakou-Markoullis, Minister of Communication and Works, Cyprus Government, Nicosia.

    It hasn't got me anywhere, and thus far she has yet to reply, but if more people write who knows...

    I have always found Cypriots to be charming and friendly, open people. I therefore do not understand their uncharacteristic total silence and lack of attention to matters now. More people need to know about Cyprus Airways

    Yours

    Lionel








    Lionel
  • Homer_J
    Having had a chat to my Mum, she wants to write to Dept of Civil Aviation before going through the courts, but will put a time constraint on a reply, or this could drag on for ever.

    I totally agree with your assessment of the Cypriot demeanour, except to add that they can have a very laid back 'never do today what you can put off until tomorrow' attitude...
    • Mands
    • By Mands 24th Aug 10, 7:24 PM
    • 621 Posts
    • 669 Thanks
    Mands
    Hi Homer_J

    Recently I have written twice to the Cypriot minister with responsibilty for airlines etc.
    Originally posted by lionel leventhal

    Recently as in this month? It is August, it is Cyprus holiday season. Holiday season in that most government offices are closed and have been since before the big holiday (Aug 15th, Assumption of the Virgin) and will be closed or on skeleton staff until late August or early September.

    Emails and letters are not really the Cypriot way. Find a phone number and call; if the person you want is not available find out when they will be back and call then. Expect it to take several calls to make progress. Offer to write with details of the problem and then re-send your letter. Call one week later to confirm that it has been received and is being processed.

    Best of luck,
    Mands
    • eslick
    • By eslick 24th Aug 10, 8:06 PM
    • 2,038 Posts
    • 1,321 Thanks
    eslick
    Homer, if the Cyprus version are anything like the dutch enforcement body it could take 6 months for them to come back to you after they eventually register your complaint
  • Homer_J
    Homer, if the Cyprus version are anything like the dutch enforcement body it could take 6 months for them to come back to you after they eventually register your complaint
    Originally posted by eslick
    What a nightmare! The more I hear, the more I think Mum might be better to register her complaint with Cyprus Aviation Authority, and progress through the courts at the same time.

    These damn people make my blood boil - how many pensioners can afford to tie up 1000 that they haven't budgeted for?!

    I'm also fed up with those who say they've got some sympathy with the airlines for having to pay out; I'm afraid I haven't! They fought tooth and nail to become part of the EU and have taken far more out of the Union than they've put in. Now they want to pick and choose which laws they want to abide by! Utterly ridiculous, it's high time the European Council sorted this mess out once and for all. Rant over.
    Last edited by Homer_J; 27-08-2010 at 8:30 PM.
  • Homer_J
    Finally decided on a 2-pronged attack! Fax to Philippos Philippou (top name!!), Cyprus Airways Assist Mgr Marketing Services, rejecting their EURO 150 travel vouchers; restated that we are not claiming "compensation", so their refusal to pay on those grounds is invalid and restated their legal obligations under the Right of Care clause. Gave them 14 days to respond, and returned the vouchers by registered snail-mail.

    Have also emailed a complaint to the Director, Cyprus Civil Aviation Authority detailing the issue, attaching copies of all correspondence.

    If we don't hear anything back then it's small claim court action. We'll see what happens!
  • cairncross
    Cyprus airways
    What was the contact details of your man Philip P. at Cyprus? Do you have an email address for him? Everything we try emailing just gets swallowed up in their Web Centre and with no reply. Or do you have a fax number? Any contact details would be greatly appreciated as this chap (or anyone at Cyprus) seems to be about elusive as the Loch Ness Monster!!!
  • Homer_J
    What was the contact details of your man Philip P. at Cyprus? Do you have an email address for him? Everything we try emailing just gets swallowed up in their Web Centre and with no reply. Or do you have a fax number? Any contact details would be greatly appreciated as this chap (or anyone at Cyprus) seems to be about elusive as the Loch Ness Monster!!!
    Originally posted by cairncross
    Mr Phillippos Philippou
    Assist Mgr Marketing Services
    Cyprus Airways
    21 Alkeou Street
    Nicosia 1514
    Cyprus
    PO Box 21903

    Fax: + 357 22 663167

    Good luck!
  • cairncross
    Thanks.
    Many thanks for this. And will certainly give it a try!
  • lionel leventhal
    cyprus airways
    You can get the names and address of all directors of all companies on the companies house website.
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