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  • FIRST POST
    • user225688
    • By user225688 4th Nov 19, 12:51 PM
    • 86Posts
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    user225688
    Is there technology between wifi and 4g any different in terms of safety?
    • #1
    • 4th Nov 19, 12:51 PM
    Is there technology between wifi and 4g any different in terms of safety? 4th Nov 19 at 12:51 PM
    Looking at the different packages I will be using one or the other and currently mobile broadband seems to have the edge in terms of savings.

    But is 4g as safe as wifi? I don't have a smartphone btw so it is not a case of 'you are already using it'.

    From the little reading I have done so far aside from non of them being ionizing the 4g actually runs at lower frequencies than wifi.

    So do they both work in just the same manner and 4g runs at a lower frequency than wifi, so if I have used wifi in the past the 4g is just the same stuff at a lower wavelength?

    Ie is 4g as well studied as wifi or not? and is this of any concern about things we may not have found out yet? and what about 5g which is newer still but being rolled out?
    Last edited by user225688; 04-11-2019 at 12:58 PM.
Page 1
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 4th Nov 19, 12:56 PM
    • 35,779 Posts
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    Browntoa
    • #2
    • 4th Nov 19, 12:56 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Nov 19, 12:56 PM
    Absolutely no concern

    4g has been in use worldwide with no issues , WiFi for even longer.

    Of course if you look on Google there will be sites claiming all kinds of stuff.

    Long article by the world health organisation says "jury out"

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5504984/
    Last edited by Browntoa; 04-11-2019 at 1:02 PM.
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • user225688
    • By user225688 4th Nov 19, 1:00 PM
    • 86 Posts
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    user225688
    • #3
    • 4th Nov 19, 1:00 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Nov 19, 1:00 PM
    Absolutely no concern

    4g has been in use worldwide with no issues , WiFi for even longer.
    Originally posted by Browntoa
    I also edited the OP, what about 5g which is only just being used and many of the networks are starting to offer?

    I read that that one goes above the normal ranges of both the former and so it 'new territory'. Though if I wasn't comfortable using that I could just use a device that only translated 4g couldn't I as I have no need for blazing fast speeds; just a few mbps will do just fine.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 4th Nov 19, 1:07 PM
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    Browntoa
    • #4
    • 4th Nov 19, 1:07 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Nov 19, 1:07 PM
    Most 5g is using spare 4g capacity , the true 5G spectrum and fastest speeds are yet to arrive.

    And same "jury out " applies.

    Since the earliest days of mobile use there have been claims it causes brain issues but it's unproven despite many many years of worldwide mobile use
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 4th Nov 19, 1:09 PM
    • 35,779 Posts
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    Browntoa
    • #5
    • 4th Nov 19, 1:09 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Nov 19, 1:09 PM
    This BBC article explains it all well

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48616174
    I'm the Board Guide of the Referrers ,Telephones, Pensions , Shop Don't drop ,over 50's , Boost your income and Discount Code boards which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum runnning smoothly .However, please remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an inappropriate or illegal post please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
    • A.Penny.Saved
    • By A.Penny.Saved 5th Nov 19, 1:14 PM
    • 1,756 Posts
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    A.Penny.Saved
    • #6
    • 5th Nov 19, 1:14 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Nov 19, 1:14 PM
    Most 5g is using spare 4g capacity , the true 5G spectrum and fastest speeds are yet to arrive.

    And same "jury out " applies.

    Since the earliest days of mobile use there have been claims it causes brain issues but it's unproven despite many many years of worldwide mobile use
    Originally posted by Browntoa
    Research funded by the American government suggests otherwise! There is a direct correlation between mobile energy radiation and cancer. If you know anything about the immune system regulation and how the human nervous system controls it then you would understand the risk factors far better.

    A researcher from Europe, Scandinavia I think it was warned about the dangers of mobiles and the EM radiation that they transmit. A very knowledgable man who had his career destroyed by the mobile phone industry, you cannot stop profit no matter how dangerous it is!

    I do not use wireless tech, no mobile phones, no wifi, no wireless doorbells or smart (dumb) meters. My internet is wired ethernet.
    • mobileron
    • By mobileron 5th Nov 19, 1:18 PM
    • 333 Posts
    • 169 Thanks
    mobileron
    • #7
    • 5th Nov 19, 1:18 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Nov 19, 1:18 PM
    Dont switch the microwave on.
    • user225688
    • By user225688 5th Nov 19, 4:39 PM
    • 86 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    user225688
    • #8
    • 5th Nov 19, 4:39 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Nov 19, 4:39 PM
    Research funded by the American government suggests otherwise! There is a direct correlation between mobile energy radiation and cancer. If you know anything about the immune system regulation and how the human nervous system controls it then you would understand the risk factors far better.

    A researcher from Europe, Scandinavia I think it was warned about the dangers of mobiles and the EM radiation that they transmit. A very knowledgable man who had his career destroyed by the mobile phone industry, you cannot stop profit no matter how dangerous it is!

    I do not use wireless tech, no mobile phones, no wifi, no wireless doorbells or smart (dumb) meters. My internet is wired ethernet.
    Originally posted by A.Penny.Saved
    And global warming is a worldwide conspiracy of the left to make money right?
    • Nilrem
    • By Nilrem 8th Nov 19, 3:52 PM
    • 2,458 Posts
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    Nilrem
    • #9
    • 8th Nov 19, 3:52 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Nov 19, 3:52 PM
    Research funded by the American government suggests otherwise! There is a direct correlation between mobile energy radiation and cancer. If you know anything about the immune system regulation and how the human nervous system controls it then you would understand the risk factors far better.

    A researcher from Europe, Scandinavia I think it was warned about the dangers of mobiles and the EM radiation that they transmit. A very knowledgable man who had his career destroyed by the mobile phone industry, you cannot stop profit no matter how dangerous it is!

    I do not use wireless tech, no mobile phones, no wifi, no wireless doorbells or smart (dumb) meters. My internet is wired ethernet.
    Originally posted by A.Penny.Saved
    Which research?

    There is loads of research funded by pretty much every government and health organisation in the world which says there is no confirmed link (the only reason they can't prove there isn't any link is basically because you can't prove a negative, and it would require a completely isolated set of samples, one exposed to only mobile phone frequency microwaves, and one exposed to none).

    There is a great story I've heard from techs about complaints being received of various ailments "due to a new mobile phone mast", by the operator of the mast.
    The mast had no power and hadn't even had the electronics fitted at the time (it was just the frame as there had been delays in getting some of the work done and they didn't fit the equipment until everything else was done).
    • Croft12
    • By Croft12 10th Nov 19, 9:51 AM
    • 175 Posts
    • 41 Thanks
    Croft12
    There is a great story I've heard from techs about complaints being received of various ailments "due to a new mobile phone mast", by the operator of the mast.
    The mast had no power and hadn't even had the electronics fitted at the time (it was just the frame as there had been delays in getting some of the work done and they didn't fit the equipment until everything else was done).
    Originally posted by Nilrem

    Variations on this have certainly happened.
    • Davy Jones II
    • By Davy Jones II 10th Nov 19, 10:21 AM
    • 458 Posts
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    Davy Jones II
    Research funded by the American government suggests otherwise! There is a direct correlation between mobile energy radiation and cancer. If you know anything about the immune system regulation and how the human nervous system controls it then you would understand the risk factors far better.

    A researcher from Europe, Scandinavia I think it was warned about the dangers of mobiles and the EM radiation that they transmit. A very knowledgable man who had his career destroyed by the mobile phone industry, you cannot stop profit no matter how dangerous it is!

    I do not use wireless tech, no mobile phones, no wifi, no wireless doorbells or smart (dumb) meters. My internet is wired ethernet.
    Originally posted by A.Penny.Saved

    You can file the above post alongside the anti-vaccine posts and the claims of David Icke.

    There is no plausible mechanism for WiFi to cause health issues. The photons donít have enough energy to knock electrons out of atomic bonds, so simply cannot cause cancer.

    You are already bathed in the same frequencies from natural sources.
    • user225688
    • By user225688 10th Nov 19, 3:26 PM
    • 86 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    user225688
    You can file the above post alongside the anti-vaccine posts and the claims of David Icke.

    There is no plausible mechanism for WiFi to cause health issues. The photons don’t have enough energy to knock electrons out of atomic bonds, so simply cannot cause cancer.

    You are already bathed in the same frequencies from natural sources.
    Originally posted by Davy Jones II
    And does 4g qualify in that statement too? In other words is 4g just a type of (long distance) wifi?

    Regarding those type's of people's 'reasoning' they don't let any new information in. I was trying to have a discussion with someone who denied climate change and said it was a conspiracy to get tax money; their argument was a couple of tenuous detractors they had cherry picked who somehow have the inside info which supersedes the world's (apparently corrupt) scientists.

    I think trying to have a debate with such people is like trying to have a debate with religious zealots; not much point.
    Last edited by user225688; 10-11-2019 at 3:29 PM.
    • wongataa
    • By wongataa 10th Nov 19, 3:56 PM
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    wongataa
    And does 4g qualify in that statement too? In other words is 4g just a type of (long distance) wifi?
    Originally posted by user225688
    Yes.


    Electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength longer the the ultra violet part of the spectrum (visible light, infra red, microwaves, radio waves) are not ionising. The worst they can do to the human body is heat it up. All transmissions by phones are pretty low power so any effects would be a slight warming.


    Electromagnetic radiation with wavelengths shorter than visible light (ultra violet, x-rays, gamma rays) are ionizing and can cause cancers. The shorter the wavelength the greater the effects on people.
    • Davy Jones II
    • By Davy Jones II 10th Nov 19, 6:41 PM
    • 458 Posts
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    Davy Jones II
    As above, yes, absolutely, it’s in the microwave part of the spectrum, so not ionizing.

    There’s no evidence of harm, and no plausible way for it to cause harm.

    Thus is another reappearance if so-called electro-hypersensitivity, where people claim that WiFi and mobile phone signals make them unwell. It’s an easily tested hypothesis, so it was tested, and it turned out that there was zero correlation between people’s symptoms and the equipment being turned on.

    Interestingly though, there was a strong correlation between people reporting symptoms and then thinking that the equipment was on...
    • sal_III
    • By sal_III 11th Nov 19, 1:45 PM
    • 1,694 Posts
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    sal_III
    I do not use wireless tech, no mobile phones, no wifi, no wireless doorbells or smart (dumb) meters. My internet is wired ethernet.
    Originally posted by A.Penny.Saved
    Well I hope you also live in a rural area without mobile coverage and do all your shopping online, never stepping into urban areas. Otherwise it's all for nothing, given the fact that devices and infrastructure owned by others are emitting far more EM radiation, than your own kit.

    WiFi is traditionally using the 2.4Ghz(2400Mhz) spectrum, with 5Ghz(5000Mhz) becoming more popular and widespread.

    4G in the UK span multiple bandwidths between 800Mhz and 2600Mhz depending on the carrier. 5G is higher than that going between 3400Mhz and 4000Mhz

    So there isn't much difference between GSM 2/3/4/5G and WiFi in terms of EM radiation. There is a world of difference on how the protocols and technology operates on these frequencies.

    There was a failed attempt in the 2000's of blend between WiFi and GSM for data, running on 2-6Ghz range - WiMAX - IEEE 802.16 that AFAIK is now dead.
    Last edited by sal_III; 11-11-2019 at 1:50 PM.
    • user225688
    • By user225688 14th Nov 19, 11:39 AM
    • 86 Posts
    • 16 Thanks
    user225688
    Wel...
    Originally posted by sal_III
    Shame these people usually do hit and run comments bullet pointing their alarmist opinions, without coming back to back them up; probably because they can't

    I surely was concerned at first but my mind was open to rational argument and it has now been appeased having been given solid verifiable data from the lion-share of commenters.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 14th Nov 19, 11:54 AM
    • 13,572 Posts
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    JJ Egan
    Its a forum with opinions and those opinions may be wrong or right .
    • Nilrem
    • By Nilrem 17th Nov 19, 3:54 AM
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    Nilrem
    There was a bit on Click on BBC news this week (or last week) basically showing the nonsense aboug 4g/5g radiation

    If you stood directly in front of the transmitter (at the same height as it) with your heard basically in the middle of it and touching the casing you'd get about 3x the "safe" level (which remember is usually a very conservative estimate which a huge safety margin*). if you were walking directly below one mounted on a roof, with your feet on the roof you'd be getting something like 1x the limit, if you were walking just a couple of meters further away you'd be getting something like 0.15% of the limit for continuous exposure.
    Given they're directional, having one fitted on a roof means you're not going to be exposed to even those levels even if you were on the top floor of a building with it, if you're at ground level (around 10m from the emitter) you're probably going to be getting less than 1% of the "safe" limit.

    Mind you of course if you stick lab rats in a cage and have them spend their entire life from birth sat in front of a device transmitting the signal directly at the cage, (possibly at a higher power than you'd see in real life) under completely made up and unrealistic conditions, you're going to probably get some indicators that it's potentially dangerous, but you'd probably be better off worrying about the rock under your feet, or the radiation you're exposed to on a transatlantic flight.

    A lot of the people who get scared of mobile phone and wifi transmissions have absolutely zero knowledge of what they're even talking about, let alone the science behind it (things like the inverse square law for radiation which basically from memory means that basically if you need X power to get a set signal at a distance of Y, you need 4X to get the same signal at 2Y, 16X at 3Y - assuming you're in a vacuum, in an atmosphere it's a lot more power required and it's affected by things like moisture in the air at the frequencies mobile phones use).

    *With radiation from the likes of reactors the safety limit is low enough you can trigger it walking into the facilities if you've been to a coal fired power station, or working with some stone (you also get exposed to more than the "safe" ongoing limit for workers if you take certain long distance flights).
    • user225688
    • By user225688 22nd Nov 19, 7:07 AM
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    user225688
    I know they say it is 'generally safe' but I just read the article about the rats that got some kind of cancer from constant exposure.

    What happened to all the talk about 'non-ionizing radiation cannot cause dna damage'?

    Well I would be buying it only for home use as I can't use wired internet where I will be living which means my exposure would be constant as I work online for like 8-12 hours a day 7 days a week. Does this raise cause for concern?

    Does the inverse square law make it not much of a concern since the 3g dongle will be in my computer which is a much greater distance than would be in phones.

    I think maybe I would also by like a 5 metre USB extension which would give me even greater distance between myself and the apparatus sending the signals.

    Moreover, does the linked study apply only to 3/4g or would it be just the same for any wifi?
    Last edited by user225688; 22-11-2019 at 7:15 AM.
    • wongataa
    • By wongataa 22nd Nov 19, 8:08 AM
    • 1,865 Posts
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    wongataa
    I know they say it is 'generally safe' but I just read the article about the rats that got some kind of cancer from constant exposure.
    Originally posted by user225688
    The animal studies use radiation levels much higher than you would actually ever get in the real world.

    What happened to all the talk about 'non-ionizing radiation cannot cause dna damage'?
    Originally posted by user225688
    Non ionising radiation can't cause DNA damage. Cancer can be caused by many things that aren't due to DNA damage from radiation. There is no one type of cancer too.

    Well I would be buying it only for home use as I can't use wired internet where I will be living which means my exposure would be constant as I work online for like 8-12 hours a day 7 days a week. Does this raise cause for concern?
    Originally posted by user225688
    No cause for concern. Wi-Fi power levels are limited and very very low. They cannot harm you in any way.

    Does the inverse square law make it not much of a concern since the 3g dongle will be in my computer which is a much greater distance than would be in phones.

    I think maybe I would also by like a 5 metre USB extension which would give me even greater distance between myself and the apparatus sending the signals.
    Originally posted by user225688
    It would make the signals broadcast by your dongle weaker by the time they reach you but it would do nothing for the other radiation around you all the time from other sources.

    Moreover, does the linked study apply only to 3/4g or would it be just the same for any wifi?
    Originally posted by user225688
    It would apply to any electromagnetic radiation that uses similar frequencies.
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