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  • FIRST POST
    • eslick
    • By eslick 15th Jun 10, 9:22 AM
    • 2,038Posts
    • 1,321Thanks
    eslick
    KLM make official statement on ash not good news :(
    • #1
    • 15th Jun 10, 9:22 AM
    KLM make official statement on ash not good news :( 15th Jun 10 at 9:22 AM
    Refunds due to volcanic eruption in Iceland

    As a result of the eruption of the Eyjafjallajökull volcano in Iceland and the closure of European air space by the authorities from 15 to 22 April, KLM was not able to operate all its flights according to schedule. We regret any impact this may have had on your trip.
    Compensation of hotel accommodation and meals
    As a gesture of goodwill, KLM will refund the costs of the first night in a hotel and the meals/drinks for one day up to a certain amount.
    As European regulation on compensation and assistance to passengers (EU regulation 261/2004) is not designed for the specific situation that arose as a result of the ash cloud, KLM is not liable for all the costs incurred by passengers while flights were suspended. There is also no parliamentary history of the mentioned regulation that takes into account unexpected natural occurrences such as the volcanic ash cloud.
    We advise you to contact your travel insurance company to discuss whether further refunds might be available via this channel.

    http://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/customer_support/customer_support/compensation_flight_disruptions/index.htm

    Looks like a court case is looming
Page 1
    • eslick
    • By eslick 15th Jun 10, 9:43 AM
    • 2,038 Posts
    • 1,321 Thanks
    eslick
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 10, 9:43 AM
    • #2
    • 15th Jun 10, 9:43 AM
    Hi Cityboy, expect we will be debating this for a while I will be keeping up the pressure in all forums, blogs and mailing anyone who I can find an email address from. KLM AF have to follow the law and we wont let them get away with this.
    Last edited by eslick; 15-06-2010 at 9:45 AM.
    • sam1970
    • By sam1970 1st Jul 10, 9:19 PM
    • 1,114 Posts
    • 127 Thanks
    sam1970
    • #3
    • 1st Jul 10, 9:19 PM
    • #3
    • 1st Jul 10, 9:19 PM
    Hi guys...please count me in any collective action..AF sent me an email a month ago stating that they will only pay for the one night stay. I think we need to teach these b***ds a lesson in respecting the law. I complained to AUC who say they will need six weeks to reply.
  • vos
    • #4
    • 6th Jul 10, 11:00 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Jul 10, 11:00 PM
    response from KLM received after more then 2 months!
    Thank you for writing and we apologize for our delayed response. I
    understand the frustration you experienced when your family's travel was
    negatively impacted by the European air space closure due to the Iceland
    volcano eruption. While disruptions of this nature are rare, we
    recognize they can cause a great deal of inconvenience to our
    passengers.
    While we are truly sorry for the additional expenses you incurred as a
    result of the air space closure, we must respectfully decline your
    request for remuneration since Regulation (EC) 261/2004 is an EU
    regulation and does not apply to flights operated by U.S. carriers and
    departing from the United States. Although your flight was coded as
    KL9080, it was actually operated by Delta as Flight 80 - I apologize for
    any confusion this caused. Since the cancellation was due to the
    volcanic ash, which was beyond our control, we are unable to honor your
    request for reimbursement of your expenses. I am sorry to disappoint
    you as I realize this is not the answer you were hoping for.

    Booked it with KLM who contracted the flight with Delta. It is disgracefull.

    any suggestions ?
    • *j*
    • By *j* 7th Jul 10, 7:52 AM
    • 266 Posts
    • 152 Thanks
    *j*
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 10, 7:52 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Jul 10, 7:52 AM
    I would suggest that as you presumably booked a KLM ticket and paid your money to KLM, them your contract is clearly with KLM, who are most certainly an EU carrier and bound by the EU rules.

    The fact that they chose to contract out their side of the deal to a third party does not have any influence on your contract with them.

    I guess many of these cases must soon end up with small claims. I am looking forward to hearing the outcomes.

    Good luck.

    *j*
    • *j*
    • By *j* 7th Jul 10, 8:54 AM
    • 266 Posts
    • 152 Thanks
    *j*
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 10, 8:54 AM
    • #6
    • 7th Jul 10, 8:54 AM
    Thanks from me too for that information, Cityboy.

    *j*
  • Shona99
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 10, 9:40 AM
    • #7
    • 7th Jul 10, 9:40 AM
    Sorry vos, it may be disgraceful but under EU regulations you are only covered if the actual operating carrier is EU based when flying to the EU.

    Definition of 'operating air carrier' in the regulation is:

    (b) "operating air carrier" means an air carrier that performs or intends to perform a flight under a contract with a passenger or on behalf of another person, legal or natural, having a contract with that passenger;

    Codeshare flights can be a nightmare when you don't necessarily know who the carrier is until just before you fly, but on this occasion KLM are correct in their response to you.
    Originally posted by Cityboy
    Since we are restricting the analysis to a dismemberment of EC 261/2004-what about Art 3.5?

    5. This Regulation shall apply to any operating air carrier providing transport to passengers covered by paragraphs 1 and 2. Where an operating air carrier which has no contract with the passenger performs obligations under this Regulation, it shall be regarded as doing so on behalf of the person having a contract with that passenger

    Doesnt this accord with J's view of the world-such that the operating carrier acts as agent for the contracting carrier in delivery of air transportation to the passenger?
    • *j*
    • By *j* 7th Jul 10, 11:41 AM
    • 266 Posts
    • 152 Thanks
    *j*
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 10, 11:41 AM
    • #8
    • 7th Jul 10, 11:41 AM
    Perhaps I'll have a good read of 261/2004.

    As I see it I currently have a cast iron case with Swiss, but they are currently only settling the short delays (i.e. cheap claims).

    The longer, more expensive claims are being backed up awaiting meetings of Swiss management and legal folk, to determine the extent of their liability.

    Perhaps they are waiting to see how KLM get on with their statements.

    I'll try to be patient.

    *j*
    • eslick
    • By eslick 7th Jul 10, 12:45 PM
    • 2,038 Posts
    • 1,321 Thanks
    eslick
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 10, 12:45 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Jul 10, 12:45 PM
    Hi J they will try and get out of it any way they can, was the flight they mentioned from Atlanta to Amsterdam, was Amsterdam your final destination, if not then even if they didnt pay out for that flight they should for the final destination one. I would also think that a court case would come down in your favour as your contract was with KLM and not delta and since KLM cancelled and rescheduled loads of flights over the last year and moved passengers to delta flights without their knowledge then a judge may find in your favour.

    This is also in the legislation

    (b) "operating air carrier" means an air carrier that performs or intends to perform a flight under a contract with a passenger or on behalf of another person, legal or natural, having a contract with that passenger;
    Last edited by eslick; 07-07-2010 at 12:49 PM.
    • *j*
    • By *j* 7th Jul 10, 2:21 PM
    • 266 Posts
    • 152 Thanks
    *j*
    Hello eslick,

    In fact I'm with Swiss, I was just commenting on the KLM issue!!

    *j*
  • housebuyer2010
    hi all- my wife and I ended up stuck in Venice (I could think of worst places to be stuck in) due to the volcanic ash situation and KLM didn't do anything for us and we were left to find hotels and meals etc- we end up incurring £850 worth of expenses for the week's delay in getting back. They have only offered to cover the first day's hotel costs and I have referred this to AUC to fight our case, but have been told it will take 6 weeks and they have no legal power to force them to pay.

    Why can't the EU just make an official statement and force the airlines to pay out. They should have insurance for these circumstances and once again the passengers will have to fight tooth and nail to get what we are due?
    • eslick
    • By eslick 12th Jul 10, 6:19 PM
    • 2,038 Posts
    • 1,321 Thanks
    eslick
    hi all- my wife and I ended up stuck in Venice (I could think of worst places to be stuck in) due to the volcanic ash situation and KLM didn't do anything for us and we were left to find hotels and meals etc- we end up incurring £850 worth of expenses for the week's delay in getting back. They have only offered to cover the first day's hotel costs and I have referred this to AUC to fight our case, but have been told it will take 6 weeks and they have no legal power to force them to pay.

    Why can't the EU just make an official statement and force the airlines to pay out. They should have insurance for these circumstances and once again the passengers will have to fight tooth and nail to get what we are due?
    Originally posted by housebuyer2010
    There is a campaign up and running and one of the members local MEP has asked just that in parliament so hopefully we will get an answer shortly. The AUC and Dutch and Danish versions are also expecting answers shortly and a UK national newpaper and website is also writing about it so hopefully everything will get sorted.

    Please write to the AUC and Dutch versions and your MEP if you havent already and sign up to the facebook campaign. link is below.
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/KLM-must-support-passengers-s...tranded-by-ash-cloud/119578578085393
    • eslick
    • By eslick 15th Jul 10, 3:45 PM
    • 2,038 Posts
    • 1,321 Thanks
    eslick
    See this article, media getting hold of our story

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/bargains-and-rip-offs/travel/article.html?in_article_id=508380&in_page_id=1093& ct=5
  • vos
    Klm
    got a further response from KLM contradicting? their initial response

    'Thank you for your email with regard to the cancellation of your flight from New York to Leeds on the 17th of April.
    Flight KL9080 from New York to Amsterdam was operated by Delta Airlines. According to the EU261/2004 regulation this puts the onus for care and assistance on the operating carrier and not the marketing one. We have therefore taken the liberty of forwarding your claim and passed it to Delta Airlines for handling.
    Thank you for placing your trust in KLM.


    thank you to all who reponded and pointed me in the right direction
  • Edwardlee1uk
    Delta offer $250 voucher
    My son and I were caught in Altlanta and spent an extra week in the US. Like other contributors I have been passed from KLM to Delta as the carrier.
    Yesterday I received two vouchers from Delta for $250 each with an accompanying email from KLM which says..

    "While we are truly sorry for the additional expenses you incurred as a result of the air space closure, we must respectfully decline your request for remuneration since Regulation (EC) 261/2004 is an EU regulation and does not apply to flights operated by U.S. carriers and departing from the United States. I am sorry to disappoint you as I realize this is not the answer you were hoping for.

    With that said, as a gesture of goodwill, for our flight cancellation, I have issued an Electronic Transportation Credit Voucher (eTCV) in the amount of $250.00 for each of you."

    I hope they are wrong with regard to their lack of liability. I feel a bit disgruntled because I doubt there is anywhere that I could fly from London on Delta that would cost just $250 so effectively they are really trying to get me to spend more money with them and any full-fare that I pay could be in excess of a $250 discount.

    Bad form, I say!

    Thinking about it as I have just completely over-spent on my US holiday this year how do they expect me to be able to afford to go to the States (do Delta fly elsewhere from London?) a second time within the year that I have been given to spend this voucher. Ridiculous! They add insult to injury.
    • eslick
    • By eslick 10th Aug 10, 10:46 PM
    • 2,038 Posts
    • 1,321 Thanks
    eslick
    did you fly to Amsterdam and into the UK, if so then you can claim against KLM for that leg, any way you could also argue that you contract is with KLM if thats who you booked with. Might be worth trying to see if you have legal cover on your home insurance and get them to look at it.
    • spiro
    • By spiro 14th Aug 10, 10:20 AM
    • 6,063 Posts
    • 2,920 Thanks
    spiro
    See thread I posted http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2660747

    May offer some light at the end of the tunnel.
    IT Consultant in the utilities industry specialising in the retail electricity market.

    4 Credit Card and 1 Loan PPI claims settled for £26k, 1 rejected (Opus).
    • spiro
    • By spiro 14th Aug 10, 10:29 AM
    • 6,063 Posts
    • 2,920 Thanks
    spiro
    got a further response from KLM contradicting? their initial response

    'Thank you for your email with regard to the cancellation of your flight from New York to Leeds on the 17th of April.
    Flight KL9080 from New York to Amsterdam was operated by Delta Airlines. According to the EU261/2004 regulation this puts the onus for care and assistance on the operating carrier and not the marketing one. We have therefore taken the liberty of forwarding your claim and passed it to Delta Airlines for handling.
    Thank you for placing your trust in KLM.


    thank you to all who reponded and pointed me in the right direction
    Originally posted by vos
    Given that the EU have told KLM to pay up for all costs not just the 1st day I would check if they are also liable as its a KL flight number.
    IT Consultant in the utilities industry specialising in the retail electricity market.

    4 Credit Card and 1 Loan PPI claims settled for £26k, 1 rejected (Opus).
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