Fraudulent card use - HSBC refusing refund

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  • Norfolk_Jim
    Norfolk_Jim Posts: 1,301 Forumite
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    Long ago I had cash withdrawn from my bank account using a pin number and debit card - the problem was, I was 150 miles away and so was my card. At first the bank said it had to have been done by a family member of someone I'd revealed my pin to. I asked them to tell me at what branch and at what time the withdrawal was made. Fortunately for me I was able to show them that at that very time I was in Royal Lemington Spa, in a branch of that bank, asking for money over the counter because I didn't even know my pin number. That wont help you but at least it shows that it can happen. I also had my card cloned in Japan and used for transactions in another Japanese city and then USA. Bank spotted it but couldn't get in touch with me in Japan. As it was, I only used it once - for my hotel deposit. Did you husband stay in a hotel in Vegas? Did he have to give a CC impression for security?
    Good luck anyway
  • David555
    David555 Posts: 66 Forumite
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    It's scary that the banks can just rub their hands of any fraud if the pin was used with the amount of card skimming going on. Even just by using your card in a shop cctv can easily record your pin up. This video I saw a while back for example https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fN27hTrltf0 it's shocking how close the cctv can zoom in to pick your pin up. A invasion of privacy I'd say! Doesn't take much for a doggy shop to replace their card reader with a skimming one and have a camera zoomed in to pick the pin up. (I'm not saying the YouTube link shop is a scam by filming the chip n pin reader but just highlights what shops can do if they wanted to)

    Certainly made me think twice about paying with card in unknown places and where possible I'll use contactless to avoid entering my pin if it allows.
  • PeacefulWaters
    PeacefulWaters Posts: 8,495 Forumite
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    David555 wrote: »
    It's scary that the banks can just rub their hands of any fraud if the pin was used with the amount of card skimming going on. Even just by using your card in a shop cctv can easily record your pin up. This video I saw a while back for example https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fN27hTrltf0 it's shocking how close the cctv can zoom in to pick your pin up. A invasion of privacy I'd say! Doesn't take much for a doggy shop to replace their card reader with a skimming one and have a camera zoomed in to pick the pin up. (I'm not saying the YouTube link shop is a scam by filming the chip n pin reader but just highlights what shops can do if they wanted to)

    Certainly made me think twice about paying with card in unknown places and where possible I'll use contactless to avoid entering my pin if it allows.
    In future it's cash only for me at the pet shop.
  • Tigsteroonie
    Tigsteroonie Posts: 24,954 Forumite
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    I don't suppose he was daft enough to have the same PIN for the HSBC and Amex cards?
    :heartpuls Mrs Marleyboy :heartpuls

    MSE: many of the benefits of a helpful family, without disadvantages like having to compete for the tv remote

    :) Proud Parents to an Aut-some son :)
  • eskbanker
    eskbanker Posts: 31,062 Forumite
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    PeacefulWaters wrote: »
    In future it's cash only for me at the pet shop.
    No payments authorised by Chipmunk and terraPIN then? ;)
  • AllieKat
    AllieKat Posts: 109 Forumite
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    This just isn't true. If your PIN is skimmed you weren't negligent and aren't liable! You may have a fight with your bank, but take that fight to court.

    It's also why contactless (with No CVM or with CDCVM, not with Online PIN) or chip and signature are actually safer in one significant way... A PIN capture device can't be used with a stolen card/chip (yes there have been cases of fraudsters in Brazil stealing just the chip) or a magstripe clone (in a magstripe ATM) to steal money from an ATM.
  • chattychappy
    chattychappy Posts: 7,302 Forumite
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    AllieKat wrote: »
    This just isn't true. If your PIN is skimmed you weren't negligent and aren't liable! You may have a fight with your bank, but take that fight to court.

    Quite right.
    AllieKat wrote: »
    It's also why contactless (with No CVM or with CDCVM, not with Online PIN) or chip and signature are actually safer in one significant way... A PIN capture device can't be used with a stolen card/chip (yes there have been cases of fraudsters in Brazil stealing just the chip) or a magstripe clone (in a magstripe ATM) to steal money from an ATM.

    Yep. In particular, Signature/Contactless, it is more difficult for the bank to establish that the cards were successfully used as a result of your gross negligence.

    (And as a reminder, this is only an issue for debit cards attached to non-overdrawn accounts. With CCs, negligence is not an issue.)
  • rossowheels
    rossowheels Posts: 11 Forumite
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    mrsjh wrote: »
    My husband lost his HSBC visa debit card on a recent business trip to Las Vegas. He did not use this HSBC card whilst there as he has a work American Express card that he tries to use for all expenses when travelling with work. The following day when he discovered it missing he reported it to HSBC. He returned to the UK the next day & discovered approx £1500 of fraudulent transactions had taken place before he reported it missing (all in the space of about 3 hours), mainly signed for transactions in various supermarkets, but there were 2 cash withdrawals that apparently used the correct pin. His card was not copied, & no-one saw him use the pin as he did not use it, he definitely did not write down or give his pin to anyone. He also has witnesses who were with him at a conference during the time these transactions took place. HSBC have stated that they do not believe him to be a victim of fraud and will not refund any of the money. We have appealed giving all the detail in writing to them but they will not change their decision, they have said we must now go to the financial ombudsman. Help! We are at a loss what we can do, my husband did not carry out any of these transactions including the cash withdrawals with a pin so how could it happen & how is it possible to prove he is telling the truth? Has anybody had a similar experience? Any advice before we approach the financial ombudsman?
    I am the victim of debit card fraud and it feels like being physically mugged. It’s not a laughing matter! I worked out how they did it and it was simply someone monitoring my behaviour over time. I used a gym which had a four digit combination lock which took a random number each time a user chose to “hire” it. This was at a gym. I rarely use PIN at ATM’s as I prefer digit transactions ie Apple Pay & only kept a debit card as a back up. Sometimes I was aware that I had chosen my PIN number as a lock code. Silly but it happened. The thief & fraudster must have taken note and had a lucky day. They even stole and used my card within a hour’s window when they knew I was working out!
  • jonesMUFCforever
    jonesMUFCforever Posts: 28,898 Forumite
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    In Vegas I have seen chip and pin terminals whereby transactions are authorised without you entering a Pin - you sign but most places asked me for ID.

    OP did you lose any other ID?
  • ad_118
    ad_118 Posts: 1 Newbie
    edited 16 May 2018 at 6:27PM
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    rossowheels wrote: »
    I am the victim of debit card fraud and it feels like being physically mugged. It!!!8217;s not a laughing matter! I worked out how they did it and it was simply someone monitoring my behaviour over time. I used a gym which had a four digit combination lock which took a random number each time a user chose to !!!8220;hire!!!8221; it. This was at a gym. I rarely use PIN at ATM!!!8217;s as I prefer digit transactions ie Apple Pay & only kept a debit card as a back up. Sometimes I was aware that I had chosen my PIN number as a lock code. Silly but it happened. The thief & fraudster must have taken note and had a lucky day. They even stole and used my card within a hour!!!8217;s window when they knew I was working out!

    The same thing happened to me at the gym last week.

    They took 2 out of 4 bank cards from my wallet and even swapped out my SIM card with one from the same network provider. They left everything else in place (including quite an expensive watch) and re-locked the locker in the hope I wouldn't notice the robbery.

    Using my SIM card in another phone they were able to respond positively to fraud alert texts sent by my card providers. Various banks offer basic text services to detail balances, recent transaction etc. Using this information they were able begin a reset process on my Internet Banking profiles too. Thankfully I noticed before they inflicted a huge amount of damage.

    It was quite the wake-up call...

    Credit where it's due - HSBC have been really good with my case and swiftly refunded the money.
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