Forced parenthood

12346

Comments

  • Red-Squirrel_2
    Red-Squirrel_2 Posts: 4,341 Forumite
    zagfles wrote: »
    OK, so what if the man is sure that he has no STDs, for instance he's a virgin, or he's been medically checked out, or it's with a long term partner who he's been exclusive with and they've previously had unprotected sex and now she wants him to wear a condom for whatever reason (eg she's come off the pill). Does that now make it OK?

    I somehow doubt it ;)

    Of course it's not ok! It's not quite as bad but it would never be ok!

    I don't get the wink?
  • Hard_Up_Hester
    Hard_Up_Hester Posts: 4,656 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    Maybe the wink should have A instead of I, then a condom would be unnecessary.
    Chin up, Titus out.
  • zagfles
    zagfles Posts: 20,317 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Chutzpah Haggler
    Red-Squirrel wrote: »
    Of course it's not ok! It's not quite as bad but it would never be ok!
    Well exactly - so it's not "totally different" to pretending to use other forms of fertility protection then is it.
    I don't get the wink?
    Sorry probably wrong emotion. Your arguments seemed disingenous - once you eliminate the STD issue, then pretending to use a pill, a condom, a femidom, a coil, pretending to have had a vasectomy, all come down to the same thing - your partner thinks you're providing protection when you aren't. Whether a man or woman does it - it's equally wrong.
  • Red-Squirrel_2
    Red-Squirrel_2 Posts: 4,341 Forumite
    zagfles wrote: »
    Well exactly - so it's not "totally different" to pretending to use other forms of fertility protection then is it.Sorry probably wrong emotion. Your arguments seemed disingenous - once you eliminate the STD issue, then pretending to use a pill, a condom, a femidom, a coil, pretending to have had a vasectomy, all come down to the same thing - your partner thinks you're providing protection when you aren't. Whether a man or woman does it - it's equally wrong.

    I never said it was ok for a woman to do it though! I just think it's different and not so bad as the condom thing.
  • wannabe_sybil
    wannabe_sybil Posts: 2,845 Forumite
    I've been Money Tipped!
    The Mirror thinks that 'stealthing' is a thing as well.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/health/man-who-enjoys-sick-stealthing-10450628

    I feel it's a bit like putting a woman 'in her place'. It takes away informed consent.
    Ankh Morpork Sunshine Sanctuary for Sick Dragons - don't let my flame go out!
  • Robisere
    Robisere Posts: 3,237 Forumite
    First Anniversary Photogenic First Post Combo Breaker
    Two events many years ago in my life come to mind with this topic.

    First was when I was 17 and believed I was a Man Of The World, as do most lads from any generation I think. I met a gorgeous girl at a party, we started snogging at Postman's Knock (yes it's a long time ago!) and she asked me to see her the following night. I took her to a fairground and then intended taking her to my house, my parents being away for the weekend. As we walked out of the Fair, a mate shouted me back and told me she was 12 years old. No one who did not know that would have believed it: she was as well developed as any girl of 18 or 19, her conversation was adult and her dress and make up flawless. I returned to her and told her I knew her age, expecting tears. She simply shrugged her shoulders and went back to the Fair. I felt sick when I thought of what might have been, but it taught me one lesson.

    The second lesson happened when I was a young soldier of 19. I met a 19 year old Uni student and we had a great time together, I saw her whenever I came home on leave. Eventually she was fitted for a coil and we made love at every opportunity. Then she began making noises about leaving Uni and getting married. I was a right ratbag and told her I wasn't ready for that at 20, (which I wasn't then, I was very immature) but she seemed to accept it and we carried on. Unbeknown to me, she had the coil removed and the inevitable happened. When she told me she was pregnant, I did what lads were expected to do then: told her I would meet her folks and marry her. It turned out that her family was much wealthier than mine: they had a huge house and the meeting was frosty. They made it obvious that they believed I had seduced their daughter, when in fact it was a completely consensual arrangement. I told them about the coil removal and her bullying, pretentious dad then said that I was not wanted in that family.

    I left, having said that I had given my intention to marry their daughter. Just before I returned from leave, I received a letter from her, to say that we were done and she was having an abortion. It was not for some years afterwards that this impacted upon me, after a breakup and being ejected from home and having to leave my two kids. I looked back at my life and felt massive regret: I wished that I could have gone back that 17 year old me and told him what could happen. Fortunately, I met and married a wonderful woman and we have two great kids, with 4 smashing grandchildren, but what happened at 17 and 20, will always haunt me. I think that the kind of guy who gets someone pregnant by removing a condom, may also come to feel that regret when he looks back. I am not proud of any of this history, in fact I am ashamed of the young me.
    I think this job really needs
    a much bigger hammer.
  • zagfles
    zagfles Posts: 20,317 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Chutzpah Haggler
    edited 18 May 2017 at 10:57PM
    Robisere wrote: »
    Two events many years ago in my life come to mind with this topic.

    First was when I was 17 and believed I was a Man Of The World, as do most lads from any generation I think. I met a gorgeous girl at a party, we started snogging at Postman's Knock (yes it's a long time ago!) and she asked me to see her the following night. I took her to a fairground and then intended taking her to my house, my parents being away for the weekend. As we walked out of the Fair, a mate shouted me back and told me she was 12 years old. No one who did not know that would have believed it: she was as well developed as any girl of 18 or 19, her conversation was adult and her dress and make up flawless. I returned to her and told her I knew her age, expecting tears. She simply shrugged her shoulders and went back to the Fair. I felt sick when I thought of what might have been, but it taught me one lesson.
    There was a case recently where a bloke got let off for sex with a minor (think a 12 year old) because of a similar thing - apparently this girl had been let into clubs, seen by police no-one suspected she was anywhere near underage.

    Of course this isn't the usual situation. Just think of it as a lucky escape, you didn't deliberately do anything wrong. Don't feel guilt - it's pointless. As you say it was a valuable lesson.
    The second lesson happened when I was a young soldier of 19. I met a 19 year old Uni student and we had a great time together, I saw her whenever I came home on leave. Eventually she was fitted for a coil and we made love at every opportunity. Then she began making noises about leaving Uni and getting married. I was a right ratbag and told her I wasn't ready for that at 20, (which I wasn't then, I was very immature)
    Why do you think that's being a "ratbag", you were honest, it's better than stringing her along.
    but she seemed to accept it and we carried on. Unbeknown to me, she had the coil removed and the inevitable happened. When she told me she was pregnant, I did what lads were expected to do then: told her I would meet her folks and marry her. It turned out that her family was much wealthier than mine: they had a huge house and the meeting was frosty. They made it obvious that they believed I had seduced their daughter, when in fact it was a completely consensual arrangement. I told them about the coil removal and her bullying, pretentious dad then said that I was not wanted in that family.
    It sounds like he did you a big favour. Would you really have wanted to marry someone who abused you in this way? She's no better than a man who "stealthes"
    I left, having said that I had given my intention to marry their daughter. Just before I returned from leave, I received a letter from her, to say that we were done and she was having an abortion.
    Are you sure this actually happened, and she did really remove the coil and get pregnant? Or was she trying to manipulate you? Either way - you escaped an abusive relationship.
    It was not for some years afterwards that this impacted upon me, after a breakup and being ejected from home and having to leave my two kids. I looked back at my life and felt massive regret: I wished that I could have gone back that 17 year old me and told him what could happen.
    The best way to learn is through experience. You can tell kids the dangers till you're blue in the face, but at that age they rarely listen until they get close to experiencing things. You had traumatic experiences but it likely made you stronger and more aware for the future. Had you not had them, you could have been less aware and made worse mistakes in the future.
    Fortunately, I met and married a wonderful woman and we have two great kids, with 4 smashing grandchildren, but what happened at 17 and 20, will always haunt me. I think that the kind of guy who gets someone pregnant by removing a condom, may also come to feel that regret when he looks back. I am not proud of any of this history, in fact I am ashamed of the young me.
    I think you should try to drop the guilt - you don't have anything to feel guilty about. I know it's hard, but like sliding door if these things hadn't happened to you your current life could have been vastly different.
  • Pixie5740
    Pixie5740 Posts: 14,515 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    If it's the same recent case you're thinking about he met the 12 year old girl at a taxi rank.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/737903/support-group-blasts-judges-shock-ruling-to-let-student-walk-free-after-he-admitted-raping-12-year-old-girl-in-edinburgh/amp/
  • System
    System Posts: 178,090 Community Admin
    Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    I've tried to instill in my kids to take control of their own fertility. Ok there aren't nowhere nearly enough options for a man but that's where love and trust comes in and casual sex goes out the window.
  • zagfles
    zagfles Posts: 20,317 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Chutzpah Haggler
    Pixie5740 wrote: »
    If it's the same recent case you're thinking about he met the 12 year old girl at a taxi rank.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/737903/support-group-blasts-judges-shock-ruling-to-let-student-walk-free-after-he-admitted-raping-12-year-old-girl-in-edinburgh/amp/
    Yes, a slightly less hysterical report of the case on the BBC website:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042
This discussion has been closed.
★ ★ ★ Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.6K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.1K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 607.8K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173K Life & Family
  • 247.8K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards