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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Karl
    • By MSE Karl 27th Aug 19, 3:02 PM
    • 140Posts
    • 46Thanks
    MSE Karl
    MSE Poll: How much are you worth (or do you owe)?
    • #1
    • 27th Aug 19, 3:02 PM
    MSE Poll: How much are you worth (or do you owe)? 27th Aug 19 at 3:02 PM
    Poll started 27 August 2019
    So are we a nation of savers or debtors? Take any unsecured debt (ie, EXCLUDING ANY MORTGAGE/STUDENT LOAN) away from any savings and where do you end up?

    Whether you've "net worth" or "net debt", pick your relevant option:

    Did you vote? Are you surprised at the results so far? Have your say below.

    If you haven't already, join the forum to reply.

    Thanks!
Page 1
    • michaels
    • By michaels 27th Aug 19, 8:31 PM
    • 22,817 Posts
    • 104,495 Thanks
    michaels
    • #2
    • 27th Aug 19, 8:31 PM
    • #2
    • 27th Aug 19, 8:31 PM
    Bit unclear what assets we should be including - house? pension?

    And why is the mortgage not debt?
    Cool heads and compromise
    • dales1
    • By dales1 27th Aug 19, 8:58 PM
    • 105 Posts
    • 101 Thanks
    dales1
    • #3
    • 27th Aug 19, 8:58 PM
    • #3
    • 27th Aug 19, 8:58 PM
    ^^^ this, exactly ^^^


    The poll cannot be answered in its present unclear state.


    Do you want to know people's net SAVINGS or their net WORTH ?
    • hugheskevi
    • By hugheskevi 27th Aug 19, 9:22 PM
    • 2,344 Posts
    • 3,136 Thanks
    hugheskevi
    • #4
    • 27th Aug 19, 9:22 PM
    • #4
    • 27th Aug 19, 9:22 PM
    So if I have £100,000 mortgage I ignore it. If alternatively I have a £50,000 mortgage and £50,000 on 0% credit cards, I deduct £50,000. Despite being in the same debt position, just paying less interest.

    If I have £20,000 sitting in the bank, I include it. But if I put it into a pension I exclude it. If I put it into an ISA do I include it?

    If my house is worth £400,000 and I have a £100,000 mortgage, I ignore the £300,000 equity. But if I remortgage to increase mortgage to £200,000 then I am £100,000 'better off'? But if I then spend that money on house improvements I then ignore it again.

    And how should we be reporting results? At household level? How are couples factored in - divide the result by 2? Or does the reporting follow legal ownership of each individual asset?

    Really can't conclude anything about this, except that it certainly isn't capturing 'how much you are worth' - I think the closest it comes is 'how much are your liquid assets worth, net of debt (aside from mortgage debt)'
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 27th Aug 19, 9:39 PM
    • 3,811 Posts
    • 2,492 Thanks
    Ectophile
    • #5
    • 27th Aug 19, 9:39 PM
    • #5
    • 27th Aug 19, 9:39 PM
    Since it excluded secured debts, and talked about "savings", then assumed I wasn't supposed to include any other investments, pensions, the value of the house, or anything else that wasn't essentially cash.


    That's probably why I seem to be at the low end of the "what I'm worth" scale for my age group.


    Not a very well thought-out poll.
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
    • adonis
    • By adonis 27th Aug 19, 9:59 PM
    • 856 Posts
    • 826 Thanks
    adonis
    • #6
    • 27th Aug 19, 9:59 PM
    • #6
    • 27th Aug 19, 9:59 PM
    Call me cynical but we are giving our age and financial status to the site owners who could use it for targeted advertising,
    perhaps I will say I am in my 20s and a millionaire and see what comes in my emails.
    • mathsus
    • By mathsus 28th Aug 19, 6:33 AM
    • 157 Posts
    • 152 Thanks
    mathsus
    • #7
    • 28th Aug 19, 6:33 AM
    Eh?
    • #7
    • 28th Aug 19, 6:33 AM
    Iíve probably done this wrong. Counted in the value of my house. How do I delete? Unclear poll.
    • staggered
    • By staggered 28th Aug 19, 8:39 AM
    • 286 Posts
    • 357 Thanks
    staggered
    • #8
    • 28th Aug 19, 8:39 AM
    • #8
    • 28th Aug 19, 8:39 AM
    So, according to this, 33% of 65+ year olds have over half a million pounds in assets. 50% have over £250,000 and 75% have over £100,000.

    By contrast, only 15% of 25-34 year olds have over £100,000 in assets and 25% owe more than they own.

    One of these groups gets free bus travel, free eye tests, a winter fuel allowance and free TV licences. The other subsidises it.

    It seems crazy to me that, until recently, all over 75s, irrespective of their wealth, got free TV licences. The decision to limit it to those with low incomes is entirely sensible.
    • PaulSh
    • By PaulSh 28th Aug 19, 4:29 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    PaulSh
    • #9
    • 28th Aug 19, 4:29 PM
    • #9
    • 28th Aug 19, 4:29 PM
    So, according to this, 33% of 65+ year olds have over half a million pounds in assets. 50% have over £250,000 and 75% have over £100,000.

    By contrast, only 15% of 25-34 year olds have over £100,000 in assets and 25% owe more than they own.
    Originally posted by staggered
    What? You mean that people who have worked for 40+ years have more financial assets than younger people? Whodathunkit!

    One of these groups gets free bus travel, free eye tests, a winter fuel allowance and free TV licences. The other subsidises it.
    Originally posted by staggered
    Yes, this is what happens when the State Benefits system is basically a Ponzi scheme. We older people have paid tax and NI all our lives to pay the pensions and other benefits of previous generations. Now it's our turn to have someone pay for us. Personally I think the fuel allowance should be taxable, but as for free bus travel, it's worth pointing out that you can get this at any age if you're medically unfit to drive, and also scrapping it will bring countless older people who probably shouldn't be driving any more back onto the roads.

    It seems crazy to me that, until recently, all over 75s, irrespective of their wealth, got free TV licences. The decision to limit it to those with low incomes is entirely sensible.
    Originally posted by staggered
    That's a separate thing entirely. The problem here is the BBC's funding model, not any so-called intergenerational fairness issue.
    • staggered
    • By staggered 28th Aug 19, 4:57 PM
    • 286 Posts
    • 357 Thanks
    staggered
    It's a shame you can't make a comment without descending into sarcasm and rudeness.

    However, my point was that, taken as a whole, over-65s are by far the wealthiest group in society. The fact that (some of) this group (the over-75s) received free TV licences, irrespective of how wealthy they were, was, in my opinion, absurd. Especially when younger groups, who are on the whole much less wealthy, were subsidising that.

    The picture painted by critics of the BBC's decision - masses of impoverished OAPs losing their only companion - is demonstrably untrue.
    • XRAT
    • By XRAT 28th Aug 19, 9:21 PM
    • 208 Posts
    • 188 Thanks
    XRAT
    There are a few requests for clarification above, for next time this poll resurfaces.
    May I add to the list.., If "I" am a couple with joint assets, is it safe to assume that I should I halve my worth?
    (Just so we know we are all on the same page.)
    • NaughtiusMaximus
    • By NaughtiusMaximus 29th Aug 19, 9:50 AM
    • 2,114 Posts
    • 5,220 Thanks
    NaughtiusMaximus
    However, my point was that, taken as a whole, over-65s are by far the wealthiest group in society. The fact that (some of) this group (the over-75s) received free TV licences, irrespective of how wealthy they were, was, in my opinion, absurd. Especially when younger groups, who are on the whole much less wealthy, were subsidising that.
    Originally posted by staggered
    In terms of assets (by far the biggest chunk of which will be a house owned outright) they may well be but in terms of income they're most definitely not.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 29th Aug 19, 2:43 PM
    • 2,691 Posts
    • 4,300 Thanks
    badmemory
    If a 65 yr old didn't have more assets than a 25 yr old, shouldn't the 25 yr old be very worried as to what would happen to their current assets?
    • dillydilly
    • By dillydilly 30th Aug 19, 9:10 AM
    • 169 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    dillydilly
    huh?
    the naivety of this poll question is an embarrassment and damages the credibility of the whole MSE site...
    • Murphybear
    • By Murphybear 31st Aug 19, 4:23 AM
    • 4,892 Posts
    • 9,274 Thanks
    Murphybear
    To add fuel to the over 65s results, I strongly suspect that it is only the wealthier ones who actually look at MSE.

    There are a lot of pensioners who don’t use a computer, in my over 60s HA properties there are 33 flats/houses and roughly one third have the internet.

    There a few million pensioners who already claim Pension Credit and an estimated £1.3 million who are eligible but don’t claim. You have to have a fairly low income to be eligible.

    I have a bus pass but can’t use it due to the lack of buses, very common in rural areas.
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