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  • FIRST POST
    • lindylootoo
    • By lindylootoo 8th Aug 18, 11:42 AM
    • 36Posts
    • 6Thanks
    lindylootoo
    Making Tax Digital
    • #1
    • 8th Aug 18, 11:42 AM
    Making Tax Digital 8th Aug 18 at 11:42 AM
    I'm given to understand that MTD becomes compulsory by April 2019 - can anyone confirm that?

    Isn't there a cutoff for small business? Many VAT registered companies are still too small for accounting software and many who have moved to accounting software do not want to be dictated to by software suppliers to upgrade (and increase fees) just to have software which sends VAT returns automatically? For very many years I have used my Government Gateway for this........it suits my purpose very well and I really don't want the issues to transferring to newer, fancier, bells and whistles, , software.

    TIA
Page 4
    • neilsedaka
    • By neilsedaka 31st Mar 19, 7:50 AM
    • 353 Posts
    • 108 Thanks
    neilsedaka
    Anyway come what may, like you I will be using Quicken 2000 for a while longer so just wanted to ask if you had successfully submitted a VAT return by the method you listed and/or whether you had any further experiences to share? Many thanks.
    Originally posted by BorderCollie18
    Having completed a successful trial run with Tax Optimiser, I will not do any more until after I have submitted my last manual VAT return to the HMRC website which will be May 2019 for the period Feb-Apr. I will not actually need to run Tax Optmiser for real until August 2019.
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 31st Mar 19, 8:04 AM
    • 12,048 Posts
    • 23,703 Thanks
    Pennywise
    I was seriously considering just deregistering for VAT and closing the business as I'm very near to retirement and there is no way I'm going to signup for this ludicrous 'recurring revenue' software scam whereby you 'rent' your software while forced into a bloody headlock by Intuit (QB) or whomever. I just refuse to use recurring revenue software - period!!
    Originally posted by BorderCollie18
    Bit of a knee jerk reaction to give up what I assume is a profitable business to avoid paying a tenner a month for software isn't it? Presumably your business makes more than 120 per year profit?

    Or you could avoid MTD if your turnover is below the VAT threshold as it only applies to business breaching the threshold - if you're happy enough to close it on a whim, sounds like it's not that big anyway, so if turnover is under 85k, you can safely ignore MTD, even without deregistering from VAT.

    But anyway, there is free software such as VT's free cash book which will be MTD capable, so free desktop based software is an option and vt cash book is every bit as good, if not better, than quicken.
    Last edited by Pennywise; 31-03-2019 at 8:07 AM.
    • kevin grey
    • By kevin grey 31st Mar 19, 1:24 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    kevin grey
    4 times a year
    I think the problem with VAT submissions most people will only do them 4 times a year and it only takes a few minutes, MTD is only really a problem for people who dont keep any electronic records
    • BorderCollie18
    • By BorderCollie18 2nd Apr 19, 9:52 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    BorderCollie18
    Thanks for your quick reply. I guess we are both on similar timescales. Everything I've read about MTD seems to indicate HMRC are going to be well out of their depth in terms of resources to enforce technical compliance but I'll bear your solution in mind for the future.
    Definitely won't be putting my accounting records in the hands of recurring revenue software publishers ..... EVER!!
    • BorderCollie18
    • By BorderCollie18 2nd Apr 19, 10:04 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    BorderCollie18
    Bit of a knee jerk reaction to give up what I assume is a profitable business to avoid paying a tenner a month for software isn't it? Presumably your business makes more than 120 per year profit?
    Originally posted by Pennywise
    The trouble I perceive with any type of RR software is that once you are in the headlock the price rises are something you either have to swallow or move to another application. That 120 'introductory' will become 300 per year before you know it and then the provider will nickel and dime you for the rest of your days.. No way will I rent my accounting software.
    • kevin grey
    • By kevin grey 3rd Apr 19, 6:28 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    kevin grey
    The trouble I perceive with any type of RR software is that once you are in the headlock the price rises are something you either have to swallow or move to another application. That 120 'introductory' will become 300 per year before you know it and then the provider will nickel and dime you for the rest of your days.. No way will I rent my accounting software.
    Originally posted by BorderCollie18
    I have looked at some of the software out and do feel a bit uncomfortable about using the 'cloud' based packages,this was the very reason I wrote my own desktop MTD VAT interface, it was a little bit of work but at least I have control and know whats going on.
    • neilsedaka
    • By neilsedaka 3rd Apr 19, 8:25 AM
    • 353 Posts
    • 108 Thanks
    neilsedaka
    do feel a bit uncomfortable about using the 'cloud' based packages.
    Originally posted by kevin grey
    Why are you uncomfortable with the cloud?

    How do you access your email?
    • kevin grey
    • By kevin grey 3rd Apr 19, 9:22 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    kevin grey
    Why are you uncomfortable with the cloud?

    How do you access your email?
    Originally posted by neilsedaka
    Its about storing passwords on unknown servers?
    • neilsedaka
    • By neilsedaka 3rd Apr 19, 9:42 AM
    • 353 Posts
    • 108 Thanks
    neilsedaka
    Its about storing passwords on unknown servers?
    Originally posted by kevin grey
    It is very likely that you are doing just that multiple times already, without realising it. For example, your username and password that enables you to use this forum are probably stored somewhere on the cloud.

    Where do you think your email service is located?
    • gilbertthecat
    • By gilbertthecat 3rd Apr 19, 6:04 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    gilbertthecat
    Free and simple MTD VAT App - Portico
    I work at a 'small business' and have, until now, happily used the HMRC portal to submit our VAT figures.

    We are like the vast majority of businesses - who are very used to this mechanism for submitting VAT returns and do not want to sign up for solutions which may not suit how they have operated for many years.

    With this in mind we have written a totally Free, HMRC recognised MTD VAT portal which will allow users to continue to submit figures in the way they have been used to.

    We do not ask for any sort of registration or sign-up and have made the software Free for anyone to use. Just need to sign-in with your Government Gateway account credentials at (https) vat.portico.openanswers.co.uk - or search for Portico on the HMRC Find software for Making Tax Digital for VAT page.

    I hope that people find this useful.

    Cheers, Jeremy
    • pvt
    • By pvt 3rd Apr 19, 7:00 PM
    • 1,378 Posts
    • 1,087 Thanks
    pvt
    12 Times a Year
    I think the problem with VAT submissions most people will only do them 4 times a year and it only takes a few minutes, MTD is only really a problem for people who dont keep any electronic records
    Originally posted by kevin grey
    I'm treasurer of an organisation that is a net reclaimer of VAT, and I submit returns monthly - did have to make a very small payment on a return about 4 years ago, but otherwise it's all reclaims, circa 30k per annum.

    I am using a package called TASBooks, now owned by Sage. TASBooks used to file VAT online up until a year ago, then stopped when HMRC closed the particular gateway it used, since then have had to file them all manually.

    I paid a "support" cost to Sage for TASBooks - it's about 500 pa. When I contacted them about MTD they said they could provide a module for TASBooks, but wanted a payment of 25 PER MONTH for it. So Sage want 300 pa on top of the support I already paid them.

    I have declined the invitation, and also now cancelled the support contract since, when I need their support, I seem to have to pay extra anyway. Simply disgusted at Sage's money grabbing approach to MTD.

    HMRC's handling of this whole debacle has been lamentable, and a House of Lords' Finance committee report published last November was damning:
    • HMRC has based their plan on optimistic and erroneous assumptions;
    • HMRC's view that it would have little financial impact on businesses was flawed;
    • Only 40% of the businesses affected by MTD had even heard of the requirement;
    • Asked why HMRC has not produced their own software package (as they have very successfully for PAYE);
    • Suggested the impending imposition of MTD should be postponed by at least a year.
    TASBooks works very well, I have absolutely no desire to change to an alternative package. But I regret Sage's greed may well force the issue.
    Optimists see a glass half full
    Pessimists see a glass half empty
    Engineers just see a glass twice the size it needed to be
    • pyrolady
    • By pyrolady 8th Apr 19, 3:22 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    pyrolady
    Can anyone help with this? Hubby is a sole trader running 2 companies - I have done his books for years just using spreadsheets for the 2 companies and then giving them to accountant for his tax return. For VAT hubby has just added up the 2 lots of figures before entering them on the gateway. What software can I use?
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 8th Apr 19, 8:58 PM
    • 8,595 Posts
    • 8,484 Thanks
    00ec25
    Can anyone help with this? Hubby is a sole trader running 2 companies - I have done his books for years just using spreadsheets for the 2 companies and then giving them to accountant for his tax return. For VAT hubby has just added up the 2 lots of figures before entering them on the gateway. What software can I use?
    Originally posted by pyrolady
    so 2 companies, one single VAT registration?
    • gilbertthecat
    • By gilbertthecat 9th Apr 19, 9:13 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    gilbertthecat
    Totally Free MTD for VAT Bridging Software.
    Search for "Free" on the HMRC recognised software list and you should come across Portico - see vat.portico.openanswers.co.uk
    • pyrolady
    • By pyrolady 9th Apr 19, 2:57 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    pyrolady
    Yes that's the set up. I have no problem at all moving over to a new system e.g. Quickbooks, as it can also use it for invoicing, purchase orders etc too. It just looks like they are all set up to only deal with one company at a time.
    • Pennywise
    • By Pennywise 9th Apr 19, 3:38 PM
    • 12,048 Posts
    • 23,703 Thanks
    Pennywise
    Yes that's the set up. I have no problem at all moving over to a new system e.g. Quickbooks, as it can also use it for invoicing, purchase orders etc too. It just looks like they are all set up to only deal with one company at a time.
    Originally posted by pyrolady
    Yes, that's usually how they work. But seeing as he is a sole trader, i.e. both his businesses are his, personally, an alternative could be to use a single Quickbooks account, but take advantage of the departments/cost centres to split the ins and outs for the yearly accounts and tax returns. I.e. for sales, you put all sales to the normal "sales" code but then allocate some to dept "company A" and others to "company B", then take out P&L reports by company.
    • DontTellMyMother
    • By DontTellMyMother 12th Apr 19, 9:24 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    DontTellMyMother
    Most of the posts here refer to businesses that are VAT registered.
    The income from my BTL properties is well below the threshold.
    Will I also need to do a digital return? Perhaps not for the current tax year 2019/2020 (?)
    At present, I submit details to an accountant via a spreadsheet and he completes my return.
    If/when I am required to go digital will I still go via the accountant? Of course, this is an expense but I prefer to use the accountant.
    DTMM
    Last edited by DontTellMyMother; 12-04-2019 at 9:26 PM. Reason: Typo
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 13th Apr 19, 7:59 AM
    • 8,595 Posts
    • 8,484 Thanks
    00ec25
    Most of the posts here refer to businesses that are VAT registered.
    The income from my BTL properties is well below the threshold.
    Will I also need to do a digital return? Perhaps not for the current tax year 2019/2020 (?)
    At present, I submit details to an accountant via a spreadsheet and he completes my return.
    If/when I am required to go digital will I still go via the accountant? Of course, this is an expense but I prefer to use the accountant.
    DTMM
    Originally posted by DontTellMyMother
    the letting of residential property is not and has never been the making of VATable supplies, it is exempt (a word which has a precise meaning in VAT law)

    vat registration is based on what you sell, not what you spend.

    if you prefer to use the accountant then it sounds like you need to be asking them for advice. If (ever, unlikely at present) MTD is extended to what is stated to be its final objective of making you submit all tax info digitally then yes, by that time you will need to do that way, but as things stand at the moment, anything other than VAT is years and years away from being implemented as HMRC haven't got a clue how to manage big IT projects and have messed up (again)
    Last edited by 00ec25; 13-04-2019 at 8:03 AM.
    • stuartr74
    • By stuartr74 26th Apr 19, 12:58 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    stuartr74
    Bridging software
    Using SAGE programme for accounts, think it's called line 50 which isn't supported by SAGE anymore and is used on a PC which is not connected to the internet, works fine and has been for probably last 15 years.
    Is their any bridging software available that would meet the needs.


    Pointless talking to SAGE as they just want to sell new
    Don't like to change as it works fine for our needs


    Any help appreciated
    • kevin grey
    • By kevin grey 26th Apr 19, 6:43 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    kevin grey
    Using SAGE programme for accounts, think it's called line 50 which isn't supported by SAGE anymore and is used on a PC which is not connected to the internet, works fine and has been for probably last 15 years.
    Is their any bridging software available that would meet the needs.


    Pointless talking to SAGE as they just want to sell new
    Don't like to change as it works fine for our needs


    Any help appreciated
    Originally posted by stuartr74
    Why is the computer not connected to the internet?, you will need an internet connection to make a return or end up getting an accountant or someone you trust to do it for you. There are several packages that allow you to make a return. What export facility does your account package have?

    If you want to make a manual return you can use my software (you will need to have a pc with an internet connection)

    Regards
    Kevin
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