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  • FIRST POST
    • lindylootoo
    • By lindylootoo 8th Aug 18, 11:42 AM
    • 36Posts
    • 6Thanks
    lindylootoo
    Making Tax Digital
    • #1
    • 8th Aug 18, 11:42 AM
    Making Tax Digital 8th Aug 18 at 11:42 AM
    I'm given to understand that MTD becomes compulsory by April 2019 - can anyone confirm that?

    Isn't there a cutoff for small business? Many VAT registered companies are still too small for accounting software and many who have moved to accounting software do not want to be dictated to by software suppliers to upgrade (and increase fees) just to have software which sends VAT returns automatically? For very many years I have used my Government Gateway for this........it suits my purpose very well and I really don't want the issues to transferring to newer, fancier, bells and whistles, ££££, software.

    TIA
Page 6
    • Ash Pole
    • By Ash Pole 15th Jul 19, 8:47 AM
    • 153 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Ash Pole
    I've just come across an article on MTD which said this -

    "after 1st April 2020 HMRC have advised that the current permitted manual transfer of data into the primary accounting system to facilitate MTD filings, will be prohibited and this can only be done going forward via a digital upload into the primary accounting system."

    We have two separate applications for different business areas that produce revenue reports at the end of the month that are downloaded into a spreadsheet, a journal created, and then manually entered into Sage.

    Is this then going to be non-compliant from 2020? If so what if we used the Sage import function to upload the journal from Excel, would that be ok?
    • ddaddy
    • By ddaddy 15th Jul 19, 8:53 AM
    • 26 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    ddaddy
    From April 2020 you must use digital links only. So Importing from Excel is fine, as is using bridging software to submit from your Excel data. Manual entry and copy/paste will not be allowed.
    • stphnstevey
    • By stphnstevey 19th Jul 19, 2:25 PM
    • 3,115 Posts
    • 503 Thanks
    stphnstevey
    I work at a 'small business' and have, until now, happily used the HMRC portal to submit our VAT figures.

    We are like the vast majority of businesses - who are very used to this mechanism for submitting VAT returns and do not want to sign up for solutions which may not suit how they have operated for many years.

    With this in mind we have written a totally Free, HMRC recognised MTD VAT portal which will allow users to continue to submit figures in the way they have been used to.

    We do not ask for any sort of registration or sign-up and have made the software Free for anyone to use. Just need to sign-in with your Government Gateway account credentials at (https) vat.portico.openanswers.co.uk - or search for Portico on the HMRC Find software for Making Tax Digital for VAT page.

    I hope that people find this useful.

    Cheers, Jeremy
    Originally posted by gilbertthecat
    Hi Jeremy

    I am going to be using your software and also others have commented on here they have also. It would be good if we can give feedback or maybe ask for help, so your interaction on this thread is welcome
    • johnhemming
    • By johnhemming 20th Jul 19, 1:17 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    johnhemming
    Is this then going to be non-compliant from 2020? If so what if we used the Sage import function to upload the journal from Excel, would that be ok?
    Originally posted by Ash Pole
    What @ddaddy says is essentially right.

    From 1st April 2020 you are supposed to have digital iinks between all parts of your digital records and the API. The rules are defined in this vat notice.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-70022-making-tax-digital-for-vat/vat-notice-70022-making-tax-digital-for-vat

    This can be overcomplicated by some of the reports. In essence you are required to have digital records so that you have a list of the invoices in and out (you can summarise retail scheme transactions with a daily gross takings)

    Those need to automatically add up to the figures going in the vat return.

    This, however, does not prevent someone keeping manual accounts and typing all of the figures into a spreadsheet at the end of a quarter and generating the return from that.

    If, therefore, you type a complete list of the invoices from one system into another then you don't have to automate the link. However, if you are taking totals from one system and journalling them into another (from which the submission is made) then that is not allowed.
    Last edited by johnhemming; 20-07-2019 at 4:30 PM.
    • gilbertthecat
    • By gilbertthecat 22nd Jul 19, 8:23 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    gilbertthecat
    Hi Jeremy

    I am going to be using your software and also others have commented on here they have also. It would be good if we can give feedback or maybe ask for help, so your interaction on this thread is welcome
    Originally posted by stphnstevey
    Hope the system is useful and happy to help. FYI Portico got mentioned recently on BBC Radio 4 Money Box 'avoiding extra costs of Making Tax Digital for VAT' - available on iPlayer, Last on Sun 23 Jun 2019
    • jaybeetoo
    • By jaybeetoo 24th Jul 19, 8:45 AM
    • 1,004 Posts
    • 554 Thanks
    jaybeetoo
    Just submitted my wife's VAT returns for Q1 using bridging software from an Excel spreadsheet (where we do the accounts). It was simple to do.

    There are currently 159 providers of bridging software. I can't believe there will be that number in a few years as they can't all make money out of it.

    My concern is I could be forced to change MTD software on a regular basis as companies drop out of this market. We'll then be left with a few suppliers and I'm sure the cost of MTD bridging software will then increase.
    • jaybeetoo
    • By jaybeetoo 24th Jul 19, 9:06 AM
    • 1,004 Posts
    • 554 Thanks
    jaybeetoo
    Being a small company of just 2, and only just exceeding the threshold, we are looking for a free or low cost bridging software for next VAT return submission in September for May, Jun, Jul. Does anyone recommend PORTICA or 100PcVatFreeBridge (Comsci) both free, or CMH bridge at £7.50 plus VAT per return. Or can you recommend any other low cost solutions to suit? My records are held in Excel 2010. I have not yet registered for MTD filing. Thank you.
    Originally posted by zebedyboy
    I'm using VitalTax. It was free when I signed up but it is now free for 1 year and then £1 a month.
    • kevin grey
    • By kevin grey 24th Jul 19, 9:11 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    kevin grey
    Free software
    It looks like several of the bridging software packages are free, KVAT is free and will continue to be free as long as Kavina systems uses a spreadsheet for accounting. It would seem likely that as HMRC expands MTD requirements spreadsheets will be replaced with more complicated accounting packages. This would not imply that free software will not be available it will just be in a different form

    Regards
    Kevin

    Just submitted my wife's VAT returns for Q1 using bridging software from an Excel spreadsheet (where we do the accounts). It was simple to do.

    There are currently 159 providers of bridging software. I can't believe there will be that number in a few years as they can't all make money out of it.

    My concern is I could be forced to change MTD software on a regular basis as companies drop out of this market. We'll then be left with a few suppliers and I'm sure the cost of MTD bridging software will then increase.
    Originally posted by jaybeetoo
    • jaybeetoo
    • By jaybeetoo 24th Jul 19, 9:47 AM
    • 1,004 Posts
    • 554 Thanks
    jaybeetoo
    It looks like several of the bridging software packages are free, KVAT is free and will continue to be free as long as Kavina systems uses a spreadsheet for accounting. It would seem likely that as HMRC expands MTD requirements spreadsheets will be replaced with more complicated accounting packages. This would not imply that free software will not be available it will just be in a different form

    Regards
    Kevin
    Originally posted by kevin grey
    Sadly it is Windows only.
    • johnhemming
    • By johnhemming 25th Jul 19, 1:53 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    johnhemming
    There are over 400 suppliers of MTD software now. A small number of those such as vat direct can handle Apple equipment and Apple Numbers spreadsheets..

    It is likely that there will be a winnowing out of suppliers over time, but providing a bridging service for MTD vat does not have a lot of overheads on a day to day basis beyond support costs. Hence I would expect there to remain quite a few in the low cost (under £10 a year to free) category.
    • ddaddy
    • By ddaddy 29th Jul 19, 5:37 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    ddaddy
    Sadly it is Windows only.
    Originally posted by jaybeetoo
    There’s native Mac and iOS MTD apps available on the relevant app stores. Search ‘VAT MTD’
    • zebedyboy
    • By zebedyboy 19th Aug 19, 9:05 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    zebedyboy
    After posting my question on 8th July "Does anyone recommend PORTICO or 100PcVatFreeBridge (Comsci) both free, or CMH bridge at £7.50 plus VAT per return" - last week I submitted my VAT return via PORTICO - I am delighted to recommend Portico - there is no sign up or registration, just had to use my GATEWAY ID and password etc. All FAQ's at open answers Portico. It is free, user friendly, no need to upload your spreadsheet (although you can if you prefer). I entered my figures - boxes 1 - 9, same format as we are used to via Gateway. Logged into HMRC gateway today, VAT obligation figure stated and therefore confirmed. I have to say that I was worried about having to conform to MTD, not wanting to pay for software to submit our straightforward return for such a small company. The hundreds of software providers listed on HMRC's website is overwhelming and made it a time consuming and difficult task to find a suitable solution. Thank you for recommending PORTICO, this was so very easy to use and my VAT return is now completed without any issues.
    • jaybeetoo
    • By jaybeetoo 19th Aug 19, 10:09 PM
    • 1,004 Posts
    • 554 Thanks
    jaybeetoo
    Am I missing something? What is the point of MTD if you type the input for boxes 1-9 into a third party web site instead of the government web site?

    Where’s the benefit for the government or the business?

    Don’t understand!

    • ddaddy
    • By ddaddy 19th Aug 19, 10:35 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    ddaddy
    If you are typing figures, you are not MTD compliant.
    Yes you might be able to submit your return, but you are not compliant.
    HMRC are having a 12 month soft landing were they say they won’t punish for non compliance, but you will have to be shown to be working towards compliance. With bridging software this means your spreadsheet calculates your return figures automatically the software grabs them figures with no copy/pasting or typing of figures.
    • gilbertthecat
    • By gilbertthecat 20th Aug 19, 8:13 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    gilbertthecat
    Portico allows you to be fully MTD compliant by uploading your spreadsheet calculations
    • zebedyboy
    • By zebedyboy 20th Aug 19, 6:11 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    zebedyboy
    Using Portico for my VAT return, just to add, my spreadsheet is MTD compliant in that the 9 figures are calculated from 2 sheets in my workbook, Sales and Expenses. However, since I did not fully understand the option to upload the figures by CSV - "then ensure the CSV file contains a single record with 9 comma separated values corresponding to the 9 VAT boxes." I simply did not have time, so opted to type the figures in myself. I would request a clearer explanation of the CSV file upload for when I submit my next return though...
    • PNEfan
    • By PNEfan 3rd Sep 19, 9:38 AM
    • 217 Posts
    • 77 Thanks
    PNEfan
    Portico - many thanks Gilbertthecat
    Just used Portico and would like to register my thanks to Gilbertthecat for the facility. Have been so worried about the first MTD return, and needn't have been. Thought I would might need to upload my spreadsheets and map cells to the VAT return as I have seen with other bridging software - no such hassle. Was able to send in data pretty much like before. Phew!
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