SW Trains - caught without ticket

jessiejane1986 · 4 March 2012 at 9:22PM

Hi

I know it's no excuse but I was late for the train to work one morning and didn't top up my oyster card - so I didn't tap in. There were inspectors at the station and they saw there wasn't enough money on there for me to pay for the journey, I had the money with me to top it up. They questioned me and filled in a form, I said I was going to top up when I got to my destination and I knew I would be charged the maximum for only tapping in one way so wasn't trying to avoid paying. Of course I can't prove that though. Today I received a letter saying for me to complete my correct details and return the form while they consider the evidence.

The person who questioned me didn't show me a badge and I wasn't offered a penalty fare, he said it was just a warning. Does this change things at all? I was travelling from Worcester Park and stopped in Raynes Park.

A friend who was rushing with me had money on her card but also didn't tap in (as we ran for the train) and was sent a letter asking for £85 in costs.

Does anyone know the likely outcome for this? Should I have been offered a PF or should I have been shown a badge? I know I was in the wrong but is it possible they will settle out of court? I've barely slept since getting the letter as I'm terrified of going to court over this.

Thank you for any advice in advance.

vax2002 · 4 March 2012 at 9:25PM

Does it ask you to sign this form ?
If so it is not a form, it is a contract.
Sounds like someone has fudged up the evidence.

Livingthedream · 4 March 2012 at 9:38PM

jessiejane1986 wrote: »

A friend who was rushing with me had money on her card but also didn't tap in (as we ran for the train) and was sent a letter asking for £85 in costs.

For an out of court settlement £85 is cheap.

jessiejane1986 wrote: »

Does anyone know the likely outcome for this?

Does the letter state what your going to prosecuted under ie Byelaw 18 or Railway act 1889?

jessiejane1986 wrote: »

Should I have been offered a PF or should I have been shown a badge?

Not if the Inspector thought that you had the intend to avoid the fare, as to the badge/ID it should have been shown but proving it will be difficult, your word against his.

jessiejane1986 wrote: »

I know I was in the wrong but is it possible they will settle out of court? I've barely slept since getting the letter as I'm terrified of going to court over this.

Thank you for any advice in advance.

The intent of prosecution letter, it will give your chance to state your version of events. This is the time to write your groveling letter and hopefully keep the case out of court, write it something like this;

Explain that you are deeply embarrassed, that you are fearful of potential consequences, and wonder if they would be prepared to take no further action if you meet all reasonable costs of the matter so far. Worded it carefully, the letter must not admit guilt of an offence, but accepts a 'liability'.

jessiejane1986 · 4 March 2012 at 9:41PM

Yeah, it says "if you consider that there are further mitigating factors that may influence any decision that may be made about this matter you are invited to to respond ... please ensude that ALL details below are completed and returned to ensure our records are correct" It also says "this is not a request for payment" & "additional correspondence may incur departmental costs".
The details requested are Name, DOB, email, occupation, phone number, NI Number, address then signature and date.

vax2002 · 4 March 2012 at 9:43PM

jessiejane1986 wrote: »

Yeah, it says "if you consider that there are further mitigating factors that may influence any decision that may be made about this matter you are invited to to respond ... please ensude that ALL details below are completed and returned to ensure our records are correct" It also says "this is not a request for payment" & "additional correspondence may incur departmental costs".
The details requested are Name, DOB, email, occupation, phone number, NI Number, address then signature and date.

Its just a grab to get a confession and the correct details, someone has cocked up filling in the first form.

Lucky escape ?

jessiejane1986 · 4 March 2012 at 9:44PM

Not if the Inspector thought that you had the intend to avoid the fare, as to the badge/ID it should have been shown but proving it will be difficult, your word against his.

There are cameras pointed right at where he was questioning me so it will show that he didn't. The following week (and a few times since) they were there again but with some kind of police checking tickets so I assumed I had been lucky they weren't there before and definitely learned my lesson.

So if the camera proves he didn't show me a badge, will that help me settle out of court?

yorkie2 · 4 March 2012 at 9:47PM

jessiejane1986 wrote: »

Does anyone know the likely outcome for this?

Well, can you tell us what the outcome was in terms of whether you paid for your journey, for a start? did you buy a paper single at your destination or did you incur a maximum Oyster fare by touching out? Neither of these gets you out of the situation, but could potentially help demonstrate that you did pay for that journey.

jessiejane1986 wrote: »

Should I have been offered a PF ?

Did you indicate that you might have been attempting to travel without the means of payment? (for example by presenting an Oyster card that not only hadn't been touched in but didn't have sufficient credit to touch in) If so that's a fairly straightforward prosecution and it is correct for them to consider a prosecution rather than charge a fare in that case.

If you had enough money to top up, then you surely had enough money to buy a paper ticket?

jessiejane1986 · 4 March 2012 at 9:47PM

vax2002 wrote: »

Its just a grab to get a confession and the correct details, someone has cocked up filling in the first form.

Lucky escape ?

So how should I respond to this?

Thanks to both of you for the advice so far, definitely easing my worry a little.

vax2002 · 4 March 2012 at 9:51PM

I know how i would respond, by not giving them any information which may incriminate me, but the general concession on here is if you dont drop yourself in it Robocop will come for you.
I can not see any other reason for asking you to provide such detailed information than someone cocked it up first time and they are hoping you drop yourself in it.

jessiejane1986 · 4 March 2012 at 9:52PM

yorkie2 wrote: »

Well, can you tell us what the outcome was in terms of whether you paid for your journey, for a start? did you buy a paper single at your destination or did you incur a maximum Oyster fare by touching out? Neither of these gets you out of the situation, but could potentially help demonstrate that you did pay for that journey.

I can't remember the outcome - he didn't charge me for the ticket on the bridge though. I think I would have bought one from that scaring me but I'm sure saying "I think" doesn't work! :-)

Did you indicate that you might have been attempting to travel without the means of payment? (for example by presenting an Oyster card that not only hadn't been touched in but didn't have sufficient credit to touch in) If so that's a fairly straightforward prosecution and it is correct for them to consider a prosecution rather than charge a fare in that case.

I had an Oyster card with only about £1.10 on it and I think the journey was £1.60 or so? I said repeatedly to them I had £5 to top the Oyster up at my destination so they knew I wasn't travelling without money for my fare though.

If you had enough money to top up, then you surely had enough money to buy a paper ticket?

I did have money for a paper ticket, I only had a £5 note in cash but it was due to running for the train that I didn't buy a ticket.

jessiejane1986 · 4 March 2012 at 9:55PM

I don't seem to have mastered the quote function too well!

SW Trains - caught without ticket

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