Why would anyone cycle to work?

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    edited 9 October 2017 at 3:07PM
    Aren't safety features - cycling helmets, seat beats etc. - there to prevent serious injury in the event of an accident, not to prevent the accident in the first place?

    As I said above, helmets are purported to reduce the number of deaths from head injuries, but your risk of getting a head injury depends on two factors:

    1) The survivability of the impact
    2) The probability of the impact occurring in the first place.

    The arguments in favour of helmets repeatedly concentrate on the first whilst systematically ignoring the second. We've been through this pantomime 30-odd years ago with seatbelts, and learned nothing from it.
  • andrewf75 wrote: »
    all I care about is that me wearing a helmet will give me some protection if I crash and hit my head.

    So why don't you care about the helmet increasing your risk of having a crash in the first place? Why don't you care about your overall risk of having a head injury?
  • scd3scd4
    scd3scd4 Posts: 1,180 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    What is all the talk about death. High impact to the head may not kill but I don't recommend it.

    Just the other night I rode home in the dark. Yes with lights, on the Thames footpath. I hit my head on a low branch. I was grateful I had a helmet on.

    Wearing a helmet reduces risk as do lights and bright clothing.
  • andrewf75
    andrewf75 Posts: 10,421 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    jack_pott wrote: »
    So why don't you care about the helmet increasing your risk of having a crash in the first place? Why don't you care about your overall risk of having a head injury?

    Because 1) I don't believe that drivers are more likely to crash into me if I'm wearing a helmet
    and 2) even if they are, I think the protection it offers me in the event of any crash, not necessarily with a vehicle, overrides that
  • scd3scd4 wrote: »
    Just the other night I rode home in the dark. Yes with lights, on the Thames footpath. I hit my head on a low branch. I was grateful I had a helmet on.
    And I would have died on 9.11.85 if I hadn't been wearing a seatbelt, but that doesn't prove that seatbelts reduced the number of deaths on the road.
    Wearing a helmet reduces risk as do lights and bright clothing.
    Reduces what risk? As I've just said, your overall risk of getting hurt depends on the risk of having the accident in the first place not just the survivability of the impact. (Bright clothing is an acknowledgement of that, obviously.)
  • scd3scd4
    scd3scd4 Posts: 1,180 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    edited 9 October 2017 at 3:38PM
    jack_pott wrote: »
    And I would have died on 9.11.85 if I hadn't been wearing a seatbelt, but that doesn't prove that seatbelts reduced the number of deaths on the road.
    Reduces what risk? As I've just said, your overall risk of getting hurt depends on the risk of having the accident in the first place not just the survivability of the impact. (Bright clothing is an acknowledgement of that, obviously.)

    You keep saying died and I keep correcting you. I dont wear it just so I dont die. I know you keep saying this and that and we keep replying.

    Risk??........human error, other people actions. Snow, rain......... Do you think anyone is taking you seriously?

    I have been riding most days for 4 years. One day in the winter last year I slipped. It was wet and I took a corner too sharp. I hit my head. I am and was grateful for a helmet. You can debate and hypothesise all you want it means nothing. I will continue to wear one and if you don't want to then dont. No one really cares do they?
  • andrewf75 wrote: »
    Because 1) I don't believe that drivers are more likely to crash into me if I'm wearing a helmet
    and 2) even if they are, I think the protection it offers me in the event of any crash, not necessarily with a vehicle, overrides that

    A helmet doesn't just affect drivers behaviour, it affects yours to. As I keep saying it's a matter of common experience that people behave more carefully when they see danger. Are you going to tell me that:

    People don't walk more carefully on an icy pavement than a clean dry one?
    Aren't more careful with a sharp knife than a blunt one?
    Don't give a tiger a wider berth than a hamster?
    Don't drive slower round a sharp bend than a wider one?

    etc etc etc.

    AFAIK there has been only one experiment anywhere in the world that has looked at the overall risk of head injuries compared between a group of helmet wearers and a control group of non-wearers, rather than just comparing survivability of the impact.

    In the 1970s, the states of the USA were divided into two groups, and the compulsory motorcycle helmet legislation was revoked for one half of the population and retained for the other. Head injuries were higher in the group that retained the compulsory helmets.

    It's been the same story with seatbelts, there was no reduction in road deaths at the point they were introduced, but they led to an increase in the number of pedestrians and cyclists killed. So seatbelts merely served to transfer the risk from those who create the hazard, to those who don't.
  • scd3scd4 wrote: »
    I have been riding most days for 4 years. One day in the winter last year I slipped. It was wet and I took a corner too sharp. I hit my head. I am and was grateful for a helmet.

    I've cycled on snow and ice too, but I didn't slip. Perhaps that's because not wearing a helmet made me ride more carefully.
  • andrewf75
    andrewf75 Posts: 10,421 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post
    jack_pott wrote: »
    A helmet doesn't just affect drivers behaviour, it affects yours to. As I keep saying it's a matter of common experience that people behave more carefully when they see danger. Are you going to tell me that:

    People don't walk more carefully on an icy pavement than a clean dry one?
    Aren't more careful with a sharp knife than a blunt one?
    Don't give a tiger a wider berth than a hamster?
    Don't drive slower round a sharp bend than a wider one?

    etc etc etc.

    it would only affect my behaviour if I thought my helmet protected me 100% from everything. As I know it doesn't, it makes not a shred of difference to how I cycle. Its just one simple thing I can do...

    I think you can read too much into something, you're trying to over-complicate a very simple situation. Whatever these studies say, the weight of opinion and common sense is a better judge!
  • scd3scd4 wrote: »
    Do you think anyone is taking you seriously?

    No, because people are not interested in objective evidence, and don't understand the way they are manipulated by their own minds.

    For example, when there is a well-publicised train crash people will desert the railways for the roads despite being in more danger on the roads. This is because of the Availability Heuristic, people perceive the probability of something happening according to how easily it springs to mind and not how probable it actually is.
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