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    • erik_the_red
    • By erik_the_red 8th Apr 19, 9:13 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    erik_the_red
    Here is another success against UK CPM, this time Pelham Street car park in Brighton. I used the template appeal letter and submitted my appeal on their website. I then wrote to the Chief Exec of Brighton MET College (whose car park UK CPM manage). I explained I had over stayed but that it was a genuine oversight and the penalty was completely disproportionate to my "crime". My letter was forwarded to their facilities manager who simply asked for the ticket details and instructed UK CPM to cancel the ticket. Confirmation email from UK CPM received a couple of weeks later.
    Even when I was arguably in the wrong, the level of penalty levied is simply not justifiable.

    Thanks for this great forum and the wealth of knowledge contained here. It can feel daunting to attempt to take on these scum bags but success is more likely than failure if these pages are to be believed!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Apr 19, 10:19 AM
    • 23,964 Posts
    • 38,487 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Well done on following the forum advice to always tackle the landowner, and getting the cancellation.

    Even when I was arguably in the wrong, the level of penalty levied is simply not justifiable.
    We feel that way too, but regrettably the Law Lords at The Supreme Court (in ParkingEye v Beavis) blew a big hole in the argument. No doubt the facilities manager agreed with you (and that’s all you needed), but it’s now a much tougher nut to crack in a legal sense since Beavis.

    Great result.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Grumpyme
    • By Grumpyme 11th Apr 19, 6:15 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Grumpyme
    Please could you put your appeal letter on here....I cannot access template letter on my iPad. I also have a leaving site ticket and am sick with worry....many thanks in advance....
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 11th Apr 19, 6:59 PM
    • 15,777 Posts
    • 18,713 Thanks
    KeithP
    Please could you put your appeal letter on here....I cannot access template letter on my iPad. I also have a leaving site ticket and am sick with worry....many thanks in advance....
    Originally posted by Grumpyme
    Grumpy, of who are you asking that question?


    That aside, you were given good advice a week ago:
    Grumpy ...... you want help then start your own thread, this thread is not yours
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Apr 19, 7:09 PM
    • 74,289 Posts
    • 86,807 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Please could you put your appeal letter on here....I cannot access template letter on my iPad. I also have a leaving site ticket and am sick with worry....many thanks in advance....
    Originally posted by Grumpyme
    You can CERTAINLY see the appeal template on an Ipad.

    You can read the NEWBIES thread. The appeal is there; not a link that needs 'access'.

    To get there, use Forum Jump, or the top breadcrumb trail mentioned in my signature below, and if you can see none of those, why not just Google the obvious words:

    moneysavingexpert forums NEWBIES parking thread

    It's the top Google result.

    Come on, this is simple to find. Anyone can Google it if really stuck to hop around the forum (but it is FAR better if you learn how to hop around the forum!).
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 11-04-2019 at 7:11 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Niclox1
    • By Niclox1 13th Apr 19, 1:16 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Niclox1
    Iím really sorry to invade someone else thread but Iím a newbie and the forum is not allowing me to open a new thread for whatever reason. I have just received 2 fines/ invoices from Smart Parking but I believe there will be at least 10 more on the way as Park there most days for an hour to go to the gym. The car park used to be owned by Lidl so I have parked there for the last 3 years no problem. Lidl closed down and is boarded up. I was not aware that in the last couple of weeks Smart parking has appeared with a small sign on the entrance and one parking meter. Each fine is for 60 pounds and Iím expecting another 8 to arrive by post. The person that was driving the car has only just passed us test and still in education and 17 years old and really upset about this. Any help would be appreciated.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 13th Apr 19, 1:26 PM
    • 15,777 Posts
    • 18,713 Thanks
    KeithP
    Iím really sorry to invade someone else thread but Iím a newbie and the forum is not allowing me to open a new thread for whatever reason.
    Originally posted by Niclox1
    This forum is not stopping you opening a new thread for any reason.

    From time to time mobile telephone users do report having difficulty starting a new thread. This seems to be a feature, or restriction, of your device.

    To start a new thread, click on this blue button:

    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Apr 19, 11:28 PM
    • 74,289 Posts
    • 86,807 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Anyone using a mobile phone to have a quick look at this forum hoping that's good enough, needs to put the phone down and get on a laptop/PC to view the forum properly.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Bretclowes
    • By Bretclowes 1st May 19, 12:01 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Bretclowes
    Hi there Iím a newbie sorry I donít know how to post a new thread! Iím not sure if Iím in the right place I used a McDonaldís in Weston on the 21st April and Iíve had a letter from ukpc saying I have to pay £60.00 because I shouldnít have parked in the McDonaldís. Do I have to pay this or can I ignore it. Thanks
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 1st May 19, 12:33 PM
    • 3,039 Posts
    • 3,850 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    hi, and welcome to the forum ........

    there will be plenty for you to read up on ...

    but first you need to start your own thread ....

    go to the newbies thread

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822

    first and have a general read up

    then visit the start page

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163&order=desc

    where you will find the 'new thread button '



    Ralph
    • mandragora
    • By mandragora 2nd May 19, 4:49 PM
    • 2,561 Posts
    • 4,758 Thanks
    mandragora
    Very quick reply to say that about ten minutes ago I opened a letter from Highview Parking about an alleged overstay in a Tesco car park (first ever occasion!). I logged in to my Tesco club card account, checked how many points I'd accrued in recent years, worked out how much of spending that amounted to, then rang Customer Services. In conversation I explained reason for any perceived overstay, reminded them of my decades of custom. Customer service agent cancelled charge immediately. Time in total, from opening letter to getting cancellation - about 9 minutes.



    I checked here before calling because I knew there'd be accurate info, lots of support and success stories to inspire me! Thanks to all who run this thread and those who contribute to it!
    Last edited by mandragora; 02-05-2019 at 4:52 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd May 19, 4:56 PM
    • 74,289 Posts
    • 86,807 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Very good news!

    Hope you also spotted from other Highview threads that we have an appeal template o this forum that works 100% of the time v Highview anyway, had you needed it. The trick is NEVER to say who was driving.

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • caroo
    • By caroo 3rd May 19, 2:34 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    caroo
    Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol - Civil Enforcement Ltd
    Hi
    I just wanted to say a big thank you to you all for your advice. I recently received a PCN from Horfield Leisure Centre, Bristol. I read on these forums how somebody else had arranged a meeting with the Leisure Centre manager and asked him to cancel the charge, and he had. So I googled the general manager's name and email address, and sent him an email saying how sorry I was to have overstayed the parking limit. I was gracious and polite rather than cross, and asked if he would be willing to cancel the charge. I included my PCN number and date of issue. He replied within a few hours to tell me it had been cancelled. I didn't need to supply a receipt or any proof of my visit (which was lucky as I hadn't actually been using the Leisure Centre!).
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 11th May 19, 1:53 PM
    • 3,039 Posts
    • 3,850 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    another Lidl / Athena appeal allowed.


    Driver overstays allowed time (30m) and gets invoice.


    appeals invoice with Athena using the forum template + images of receipt £36 and blue badge.



    invoice cancelled!



    Driver now is writing to MP.


    Ralph
    • NosyParking
    • By NosyParking 16th May 19, 8:36 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    NosyParking
    ISLAND GREEN RETAIL PARK, WREXHAM, LL137LW EURO CAR PARKS, NO TICKET PURCHASED, BLUE BADGE HOLDER, PARKING EYE

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6000964&page=2#topofpage

    All info in the link above.

    Complained to the land owner, which is Savills. Had receipts for shopping on that day, did not even need to send them to Mr O'Brian (Local development manager) as he only requested my Parking charge notice to be sent via email or watts app.

    ALWAYS COMPLAIN TO LANDOWNER ASAP!. I feel a genuine detailed explanation is most appropriate and would show you want to avoid any conflict, they may take a sympathetic stance and cancel the charge.
    I wouldn't personally recommend stating laws at the land owner as they may take a defensive stand, be polite with these guys, they have the power to save you many hours fighting the parking company, they are usually the ones you need to throw the book at.

    There maybe clauses in contracts between land owner and parking management if you are on shopping precinct car parks, to give warnings for first offences and be more understanding if you show receipts or proof of purchase from stores located there from that day.
    This is probably why the parking company would be reluctant to show the contract on appeals.

    I thank everyone who helped me and gave me the direction to justice
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th May 19, 8:48 PM
    • 74,289 Posts
    • 86,807 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    ALWAYS COMPLAIN TO LANDOWNER ASAP!. I feel a genuine detailed explanation is most appropriate and would show you want to avoid any conflict, they may take a sympathetic stance and cancel the charge.
    Good advice, and you and your family will never forget it, as it's such a simple and honest first approach to end a PPC scam.

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • bestfootie
    • By bestfootie 21st May 19, 3:54 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    bestfootie
    Very inspiring stories here!!

    My own hopefully inspiring story. I literally went assertive at everyone to get this thing off.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6004259

    Here's the letter I wrote to Car Park Management Services (CPM), hope it helps you!:-

    ---------------------

    Dear Sirs

    Re PCN number: *******

    I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner, the Village **** and to my MP, ****** MP.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

    • If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

    • If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

    • in all cases, you must include a close-up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

    In order to resolve this dispute I attach a photograph of the driver’s Village Gym Black Membership Card as they were using the gym facilities on the day in question and they pay £80 for their gym membership every month.

    Further, you can clearly see in the photographs provided of the vehicle on your ‘parking charge’ that there are no spaces in the car park save for disabled bays on the right. You will further note that the driver provided plenty of space for any emergency vehicles to pass where necessary and was not causing any manner of obstruction to the normal usage of the car park.

    Further, under Section 9(4) and (5) Schedule 4 Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, the notice you send to the registered keeper of the vehicle must arrive within the ‘relevant period’ of which is ’14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended’. The date you allege the vehicle was parked at the location is provided as 6 May 2019. The day for the beginning of the counting of the relevant period is 7 May 2019 (day one). Day 14 is therefore 20 May 2019. The letter was received in the envelope attached on 21 May 2019, Day 15, making it outside the relevant period.

    Formal note:
    Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

    Yours faithfully

    -------

    In addition to the appeal which I submitted to info@uk-carparkmanagement.co.uk (email address not provided on their PCN and no email address or appeal form on website) I also wrote separate emails to:-

    - my MP;
    - the CEO and MD of the entire hotel/gym complex (who responded apologising almost immediately and said that it would be paid by them);
    - the Parent company of that complex (they were very responsive and very sensitive about it all and it's now in process with them too!);
    - The IPC (need to register on their site. I was unable to paste my own stuff into their box, so just type that to them and they'll send you back an upload option and I've uploaded it all on there).

    -------------------------

    The email I've been copied into from the parking company reads:-

    Hi *****

    Please see below confirmation the ticket has been cancelled.

    If I can be any further help please do let me know.

    Many Thanks

    ********
    Deputy General Manager


    Village ********

    A. *****

    T: *****


    From: Victoria Butcher <victoria.b@uk-cpm.com>
    Sent: 21 May 2019 16:28
    To: ****** <*******@village-hotels.com>
    Subject: RE: ******





    Good afternoon *******,



    I have cancelled this PCN for you as requested.





    Kind Regards,

    Victoria Butcher
    UK Car Park Management Ltd
    Switchboard: 0845 463 5050
    Fax: 0845 463 5055
    Email: victoria.b@uk-cpm.com
    Website: www.uk-cpm.com


    From: ******* <******@village-hotels.com>
    Sent: 21 May 2019 16:03
    To: Victoria Butcher <victoria.b@uk-cpm.com>
    Subject: ******

    Hi Victoria

    Please can you rescind the ticket for the above reference number?

    Vehicle Reg: ******

    Many Thanks

    *******

    Deputy General Manager


    --------------------------

    Included in these emails, I took photos of my gym card as well as the envelope it was received in (out of time).

    The entire process, involving researching, writing and cancellation took about 3 or 4 hours though could have taken much less though I get very into it!!!

    Hope this helps people!!!!
    Last edited by bestfootie; 21-05-2019 at 3:59 PM. Reason: removed name
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd May 19, 10:36 PM
    • 74,289 Posts
    • 86,807 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    All very useful, and the parking firm scammers' emails are good to have (never phone them of course, so I've not quoted the numbers):

    Victoria Butcher
    UK Car Park Management Ltd

    Email: victoria.b@uk-cpm.com

    or

    info@uk-carparkmanagement.co.uk (email address not provided on their PCN and no email address or appeal form on website)
    https://www.uk-carparkmanagement.co.uk/aboutus/meet-the-team

    I just looked at their 'people' and UKCPM actually tell their employees that they have job titles called 'Customer Service Director' and 'Customer Service Manager' plus a group of little young'uns who are apparently told they work in CUSTOMER SERVICE.

    Jeez, you could NOT make it up. These jobs are NOT 'customer service' jobs, not in the true sense of dealing fairly with CONSUMERS.

    With this bunch of ex-clampers, consumers are their victims.

    This industry is the antithesis of any customer service ethic. Absolute SCUM.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 22-05-2019 at 10:46 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • bestfootie
    • By bestfootie 30th May 19, 6:39 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    bestfootie
    All very useful.........
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Thanks Coupon-mad!

    I received a response to my complaint from the mofos at the "International Parking Community" ("IPC") (They are unaware the parking company and the landowners themselves agreed to waive/pay the fee):-
    Dear ******

    We have now had the opportunity to discuss your complaint with the operator.

    Your complaint asserts that the operator has failed to comply with the time limits prescribed by the Protection of Freedoms Act relating to the service of certain documents.

    Please note, that these time limits only apply where the operator seeks to rely upon the keeper liability provisions provided within the Act. They may serve notices outside of these time limits providing that they do not state that the terms of the Act apply.

    I have reviewed the Notice to Keeper document, and I can confirm that this does not cite The Protection of Freedoms Act.

    To address your comments pertaining the grace period on site- firstly, the grace period is for drivers parking to check the terms and obtain the necessary permit or ticket for display. However, the driver must make an attempt to read the terms. Any failure to do so where adequate notice is provided means they are deemed to have accepted them.

    Secondly, any driver parking on private land would be expected to park in bay first before considering those terms. This is because, where bays are provided it is an almost universal requirement to park within one of those bays.

    Drivers must be allowed a minimum period of 10 minutes to leave a site after a pre-paid or permitted period of parking has expired.

    Due to the above, I am unable to locate a breach of our Code of Practice ad (sic) am therefore unable to uphold your complaint.

    We regret we could not assist you further with this matter.

    Kind regards

    The IPC
    ------

    Thought you might be interested and could use this info in some way in the strategy of advising other victims of the scam.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st May 19, 12:21 AM
    • 74,289 Posts
    • 86,807 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Dear IPC,

    What a load of template twaddle, designed to fob off consumers with a virtual slap and prop up your bottom-feeding membership. To think you even support the likes of notorious ex-clampers like UKCPM who are known for infamous scammery like using a self ticketer who fraudulently put signs up after people parked, then removed the signs once photos were taken.

    Shame on you. Shame on the entire outrageous scam. You must be so proud.

    Thankfully, in my case, the landowner saw through this con and told your beloved fee paying member to do one. Hopefully, your member firm will soon lose the contract because the Hotel's eyes have been opened to the horrendous effect that parasitic, money-grabbing scumbag parking firms have on their customer retention.

    regards,


    bestfootie
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 31-05-2019 at 12:26 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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