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  • FIRST POST
    • dgwave73
    • By dgwave73 2nd Aug 13, 2:20 PM
    • 22Posts
    • 4Thanks
    dgwave73
    Parking Eye - County Court Claim Form
    • #1
    • 2nd Aug 13, 2:20 PM
    Parking Eye - County Court Claim Form 2nd Aug 13 at 2:20 PM
    I got a parking eye 'Parking Charge Notice' back in Jan 2013. I parked in Pizza Hut, had a meal, but didn't know I had to put a car reg in to a little computer in their foyer. I got the notice through the post shortly afterwards despite having been a paying customer! (Paid cash so can't prove the transaction)
    I have followed the advice to ignore all the previous letters - 3 or 4 now I think.

    Today I have had through what looks like a Northampton County Court Claim Form. It has ParkingEye as the claimant and is claiming 150 from me . It seems official and gives me 14 days to acknowledge. Is this genuine or another pseudo official document?
Page 2
    • dgwave73
    • By dgwave73 4th Aug 13, 9:31 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    dgwave73
    get well soon Daisy.
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 4th Aug 13, 10:50 PM
    • 12,134 Posts
    • 18,762 Thanks
    zzzLazyDaisy
    As I ignored the LBA (as it was from PE) do I need to send a formal acknowledgement letter (with the legal challenges) in addition to the online acceptance, or do I just send in a defence? Can I include all the same arguments as per the acknowledgement letters (lack of practice direction compliance, requesting POPLA reference, cost breakdown,contractual issues etc) or just tell them that I was a customer who didn't know about entering registrations in a computer...
    Again, thanks
    Originally posted by dgwave73
    The online acceptance is the acknowledgment of service (unfortunately it has a similar sounding name to the acknowledgment letter in the pre-action protocol, which you can forget about as the time for that has gone). You can also forget requesting a POPLA code for the same reason.

    SO - you have already acknowledged service. That means you have 28 days in total from receiving the claim pack, to file your defence, which you also do on-line.

    So you are explaining your case to the court.

    A lot of the issues are the same as if you were making an appeal to POPLA.

    But you should start your defence by explaining that the claimant's letter before action did not comply with the Practice Direction on Pre-action conduct, and that you have only just found out about the Practice Direction. Refer to paragraph 4 of the PD on non-compliance and sanctions, and ask the court to stay the case to allow the parties time to complete the pre-action procedure.

    D
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Aug 13, 11:26 PM
    • 74,363 Posts
    • 86,872 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    As I ignored the LBA (as it was from PE) do I need to send a formal acknowledgement letter (with the legal challenges) in addition to the online acceptance, or do I just send in a defence? Can I include all the same arguments as per the acknowledgement letters (lack of practice direction compliance, requesting POPLA reference, cost breakdown,contractual issues etc) or just tell them that I was a customer who didn't know about entering registrations in a computer...
    Again, thanks
    Originally posted by dgwave73

    You are not alone, there are hundreds of posts like yours on here and on pepipoo forums (all being defended by ordinary people like you) as PE have gone power-mad.

    Some people have got their fake PCNs cancelled by Store Managers or Retail Parks even at this late stage (albeit that PE then send a sneaky letter trying to wheedle 50 for their wasted 'costs'! Read threads on it by searching). Best (for you) to get it in writing or by email from the store manager, that they wish for the ticket to be cancelled; be very assertive about the harassment but polite of course. If you can get this quickly you can use it as part of your defence (i.e. 'the retail client for whom PE are a mere agent, has indicated the ticket should be cancelled').

    See my reply and zzzLazyDaisy's reply here:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4587137

    Hope the links I gave there help you to formulate a strong defence. You must look to rebut EVERY point made by PE in their particulars of claim, blow by blow (if you do not rebut a point you are deemed to have accepted it). The link should help.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • dgwave73
    • By dgwave73 14th Aug 13, 9:29 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    dgwave73
    I returned to Pizza Hut and spoke to a very helpful manageress who agreed to cancel the PCN. She seemed quite exasperated by the daily problems they encounter with PE- she told me they cancel 6-10 per day! I will wait for my cheeky letter asking for court costs to be re-paid!
    Interesting to note that there is still no signage in the foyer telling customers about the need to input their car reg into the computer.

    I would re-iterate that it is correct to advise not to pay and follow the advice in relation to acknowledgements/LBA's etc but don't do what I did and follow advice to ignore the letters - they don't go away!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Aug 13, 5:43 PM
    • 74,363 Posts
    • 86,872 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Now that's great news! Shame you sound as if she only said this verbally, you really need proof in writing that 'the principal' wants the charge dropped by this agent.

    You do know the Court case isn't cancelled & you must still defend, if you've not sent your defence already you must still adhere to court deadlines or you'll lose by default?

    I would state in your defence response that Pizza Hut are the Principal (PE a mere agent) and Pizza Hut have cancelled it, and in a separate letter to PE you could urge them not to bother asking you to contribute 50 to their Christmas jolly by sending a template reply whinging that they have incurred costs (tough!) because you will not assist.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 17-08-2013 at 5:46 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • dgwave73
    • By dgwave73 22nd Aug 13, 4:33 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    dgwave73
    So, parking notice cancelled! I went back to the restaurant and they cancelled it without any issue at all. I now have a polite note from parking eye though asking for payment of their charges, amounting to 50. Apparently this is 'a direct cost associated with your inaction' as I ignored all the letters. This is on a 'without prejudice basis (save as to costs)' and the claim will remain against me if I don't pay. Surely if the notice was incorrectly issued, I can't be liable for their costs!? Could the matter still go to court (I have the acknowledgement of defence from the court) and the costs be settled against me? Thanks.....
  • spacey2012
    Just keep your nerve, the judge will throw them straight out.
    Dont forget your accounts for your losses and make sure you ask for expenses.
    Parking eye are walking around with their bollox out at the moment, they are well over due a swift kick in them.
    Last edited by spacey2012; 22-08-2013 at 4:39 PM.
    Be happy...
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 22nd Aug 13, 5:05 PM
    • 8,456 Posts
    • 5,190 Thanks
    buglawton
    I am exactly the sort of person who would overlook a new procedure like having to log my number plate in on a little terminal when I do a bit of casual shopping or eating. The rough message I am getting is: Avoid Aldi and Pizza Hut type places unless I happen to be walking or cycling past one. Must warn the missus about this too.
    It's 2013 and automatic number recognition plus a very large clear sign at the car park entrance saying how long you can stay for is all I should ever need.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 23rd Aug 13, 9:55 AM
    • 23,965 Posts
    • 38,491 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    This is my first post so sorry if its the wrong place.
    My daughter received her first 'fine letter' in the early part of the year and following the feel of threads on all the different sites I ignored all the follow up letters. I now have received 'court' papers from Northampton Court and have decided to pay it. Wish I'd paid in the first place, maybe it was worth a try, but doesnt seem so as more people appear to be receiving these court issued papers. Oh, by the way this is genuine and not a input from Parking Eye.
    Originally posted by Queensland
    Yes, you have posted in the 'wrong' place, but no worries, please copy and paste your post into a new thread of your own then you will get advice specific to your case. Tagging on to an other poster's thread becomes messy and advice confusing as to who is being answered.

    With your own thread the advice will be to you only. Any interlopers will be chased off (as you have been, in the nicest possible way, from this one)
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
  • Custard Pie
    This is my first post so sorry if its the wrong place.
    My daughter received her first 'fine letter' in the early part of the year and following the feel of threads on all the different sites I ignored all the follow up letters. I now have received 'court' papers from Northampton Court and have decided to pay it. Wish I'd paid in the first place, maybe it was worth a try, but doesnt seem so as more people appear to be receiving these court issued papers. Oh, by the way this is genuine and not a input from Parking Eye.
    Originally posted by Queensland
    Please post under a new thread.

    If you have anymore free cash can I have your address so I can send in an invoice for replying to this post. 100 reduced to 60 if paid within 12 minutes.
    Search my post " PoPLA evidence - What to submit" on what is a good defense for a PoPLA appeal.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Aug 13, 4:51 PM
    • 74,363 Posts
    • 86,872 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    So, parking notice cancelled! I went back to the restaurant and they cancelled it without any issue at all. I now have a polite note from parking eye though asking for payment of their charges, amounting to 50. Apparently this is 'a direct cost associated with your inaction' as I ignored all the letters. This is on a 'without prejudice basis (save as to costs)' and the claim will remain against me if I don't pay. Surely if the notice was incorrectly issued, I can't be liable for their costs!? Could the matter still go to court (I have the acknowledgement of defence from the court) and the costs be settled against me? Thanks.....
    Originally posted by dgwave73

    They always send that sneaky letter, when the store cancels the fake PCN, to try to claw some money back. I certainly wouldn't pay it! The letter is marked 'without prejudice' so can't be mentioned in court by them or you.

    You can see that letter if you 'search this forum' for the keywords 'without prejudice' because it's not a term that's used often on this parking board.

    However, I would reply and say 'You clearly know that the principal has cancelled your unjustified ticket and if you now pursue this case to a court hearing I will defend it vigorously and show that you have no cause of action as an agent on site. I have written evidence that the ticket has been cancelled because it should never have been issued or pursued. Your claim is totally without merit as is your letter trying to get me to pay you 50. It seems you are trying to get something out of me to cover the fact that your business model is flawed - it is a fact that all too often, you waste money pursuing genuine customers. That's your problem, frankly, not mine and I suggest you reconsider your signage and system at that site so that genuine customers know what to do from prominent signage and are exempt from the outset.'

    To answer your question, yes they can still go ahead with the small claim. Doubt they will, but this letter is well-known. Read what others did by searching the forum for the keywords I suggested.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • zzzLazyDaisy
    • By zzzLazyDaisy 24th Aug 13, 2:13 PM
    • 12,134 Posts
    • 18,762 Thanks
    zzzLazyDaisy
    Hi, just popping in, but not stopping.

    Thanks to Coupon and other regular posters for keeping the 'balls in the air'

    Just a few comments:

    1 Their new template letter doesn't say anything more than the previous one - it is just scaled down and less aggressive.


    2 I agree that, where possible, the RK should identify the driver (if different) and reset the POPLA clock

    PLUS

    3 pressurise the landowner to get the charge cancelled.

    4 Where a charge has been cancelled and no court proceedings have yet been issued, their Without Prejudice letter can be safely ignored - no court is going to consider court action started AFTER the charge has been cancelled (but get the landowner to confirm the cancellation in writing).

    5 I also like Coupon-mad's letter requesting a POPLA code etc

    6 Other than that, you can just keep the correspondence flowing and continue building a file of correspondence for the court showing your efforts to be reasonable (and in the meantime cause PE more time, inconvenience, and expense) I suggest sending a letter along these lines (using your own words, and inserting paragraphs!)

    'contrary to your assertions, you most certainly have not complied with the Practice Direction. Please note I consider your repeated and persistent refusal to comply with the Practice Direction to amount to an abuse of court procedure and I will have no hesitation in bringing your conduct to the attention of the court. [Nevertheless, in an attempt to progress this matter I must insist that, as a bare minimum, you tell me the basis of your client's claim (breach of contract, money due under a contract, trespass, or some other claim) and, if a contract claim, identify with whom and how I am alleged to have entered into the contract. I am sure that you will agree that this is a reasonable request, since it is totally unacceptable to expect me to hazard a guess as to what your claim might be, or to prepare a variety of defences in the hope of by some chance identifying the type of claim that I am required to defend. Further, please note that, regardless of whether or not you provide the requested information,] I shall be seeking the assistance of the court in explaining your client's obligations under the Practice Direction and requesting that the court make an Order staying any future proceedings under Paragraph 4, pending your client's full compliance with the Practice Direction.

    (either include the bit in square brackets, or leave it out, depending on whether you want to continue to play footsie with them)

    7 I also suggest that if you have 14 days to reply, you wait until close to the end of the 14 days... only because to reply earlier will speed up the next instalment.

    I expect to be back around mid-September, but I will check in when I can.

    Daisy x
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
    • Stroma
    • By Stroma 24th Aug 13, 2:42 PM
    • 7,917 Posts
    • 8,408 Thanks
    Stroma
    Thanks Daisy very informative. Hope things are on the up for you.
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 24th Aug 13, 3:47 PM
    • 13,673 Posts
    • 8,656 Thanks
    arcon5
    Several people are here complaining they are being taken to court, I've gotta say a defence doesn't seem abundantly clear despite the advise to ignore them being promoted by members here
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 24th Aug 13, 3:50 PM
    • 9,028 Posts
    • 13,969 Thanks
    trisontana
    Several people are here complaining they are being taken to court, I've gotta say a defence doesn't seem abundantly clear despite the advise to ignore them being promoted by members here
    Originally posted by arcon5
    That was old advice. Because PE have gone berserk and are now issuing hundreds of court claims, then the best advice is now to fight them. If you can get in early and submit a POPLA appeal, then there is a very good chance that you will win.
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
  • spacey2012
    That is because it is not posted up for Parking Eye to see, but seek it and you shall find it.
    Be happy...
    • Stroma
    • By Stroma 24th Aug 13, 4:02 PM
    • 7,917 Posts
    • 8,408 Thanks
    Stroma
    Several people are here complaining they are being taken to court, I've gotta say a defence doesn't seem abundantly clear despite the advise to ignore them being promoted by members here
    Originally posted by arcon5
    Can you point us to where people are currently saying ignore now? The same as paying is an option, I do advise on both options on proviso that they heed all the advice to go with doing that.

    What is abundently clear though is that people need to make their own decisions, we are not here to twist people's arms, and we are not here to mislead people!!

    Now please show us what you have said
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member
  • Green Diamond
    Is the keeper liable
    I have also ignored all the letters and got a court letter. Particulars of claim states Notice under the protection of freedoms act 2012 has been given under Sch 4, making the keeper liable. So does that mean that even though I was not the driver I still have to pay?
    Also if they have spelt the name wrong can you have it struck out?
    • trisontana
    • By trisontana 23rd Apr 14, 6:31 PM
    • 9,028 Posts
    • 13,969 Thanks
    trisontana
    I have also ignored all the letters and got a court letter. Particulars of claim states Notice under the protection of freedoms act 2012 has been given under Sch 4, making the keeper liable. So does that mean that even though I was not the driver I still have to pay?
    Also if they have spelt the name wrong can you have it struck out?
    Originally posted by Green Diamond
    I would be much better if you started your own thread. That way it can be dealt with on a personal basis. You have tagged onto a very old thread
    What part of "A whop bop-a-lu a whop bam boo" don't you understand?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Apr 14, 10:19 PM
    • 74,363 Posts
    • 86,872 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I have also ignored all the letters and got a court letter. Particulars of claim states Notice under the protection of freedoms act 2012 has been given under Sch 4, making the keeper liable. So does that mean that even though I was not the driver I still have to pay?
    Also if they have spelt the name wrong can you have it struck out?
    Originally posted by Green Diamond
    Of course the keeper is potentially liable - why did you ignore this when the advice changed over a year ago and PE sue people every week?! Doesn't mean it would be a good plan to just pay like some numpty though - in fact it would be daft to pay in full at this early court papers stage IMHO. Several options - reading required!

    You appear to have missed the advice and templates which were under your nose right here on the parking forum all the time. Please start again at square one and don't pass 'go' until you've read the 'NEWBIES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST!' thread at the top:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

    Hint - there's a whole post in the top thread with info & links about defending a PE small claim, plus it shows you all the recent cases won (but don't get complacent - PE still win cases too).

    Please don't reply on this old thread, no idea why you read this and not the current forum. What a shame you didn't appeal & win like we've advised since 2013.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 24-04-2014 at 12:52 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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